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guajolote

All About Bitters (Part 1)

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If you fully -burn- the sugars you don't end up with anything even remotely useable. However when we refer to burnt sugar culinarily, we are actually talking about carmelized sugar, similar to the "burnt sugar" topping of a creme brule.

Well, go know - it's a new one on me. I have always heard "burnt sugar" used to refer to... burnt sugar, and have used it that way too; it is useful only for coloring, and its virtue is that it doesn't affect flavor in cases where one doesn't want it to. Deeply caramelized is a whole nother kettle of fish, and in my book it's always specified. But I think I need to go look in some of my other books....! :unsure:

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The "Trident" is in itself an interesting cocktail since all of the ingredients it uses are ones that are often hard to find in a bar. Dry Sherry is probably it's most common ingredient, but Aquavit can be a little scarce, and Cynar is extremely rare to fine, rarer to find it actually being "used".

Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that - I was just thinking about Cynar and its relationship to the bitters category. I have a thing about artichokes (working on a monograph sort of thing about them, tentatively titled "Blessed Thistle") and am fascinated by their influence on taste-buds and how Cynar makes use of that. Any comments or reflections on that, all you pros? This amateur's enquiring mind certainly wants to know. :cool:

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fyi---I agree to also add zest to a pith infusion, but you'd be

absolutely amazed at just how much real flavor using the pith

alone gives off! I just checked it this morning, and it's actually

2 months old (how time flies!). And I purposely left the pith

intact, which shows very little signs of decomposistion.

I have a mini bottle of Pimento Dram manufactured by Myers's;

the label looks very old (circa 30's - 40's). It lists burnt sugar on

the label for coloring as well, which definitely has added

something to the flavor.

Audrey

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Forgot to add to your Cynar comment--it is delightful in iced coffee!

...and don't forget the following for syrups:

-light brown sugar

-dark brown sugar

-maple syrup

Audrey

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Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that - I was just thinking about Cynar and its relationship to the bitters category. I have a thing about artichokes (working on a monograph sort of thing about them, tentatively titled "Blessed Thistle") and am fascinated by their influence on taste-buds and how Cynar makes use of that. Any comments or reflections on that, all you pros? This amateur's enquiring mind certainly wants to know.

If you've ever been preparing artichokes and then licked your fingers, Cynar tastes something like that, but with sugar.

I had a lot of fun tasting different bitters (the digestivo sort, not the dropper bottles) in Sicily, nearly every town has their own blend. At least a year ago I claimed I was going to try my hand at making my own, but I never got around to it. I did get some good advice about looking for hard to find ingredients in Chinese medicine shops, so I really have no excuse.

If you can find them, the pith of Seville oranges is wonderfully bitter and astringent, and so is the bergamot orange. I highly recommend them for infusing purposes. Worlds of complexity in the oils too...

Corti Bros. in Sacramento does a brisk mail order business and had Fee Bros. bitters the last time I was there. I've run accross the orange bitters in many liquor stores, even here in Oregon, so I'll bet you can find it locally.

regards,

trillium

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Forgot to add to your Cynar comment--it is delightful in iced coffee!

Cynar in iced coffee? Never even thought of trying that!

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I ordered one large bottle each of regular, orange, and peach bitters from Fee the other day. They were very, very nice and helpful with my order. I don't know the total cost yet (they invoice and my order isn't here yet), but it's probably not going to be over $20, which is fab considering a small bottle of Angostura bitters (which I love, too) goes for $4.99 or so around here. You don't have to buy by the case, btw.

Husband was totally grossed out by the idea of the peach bitters, but I sorta like peach. I thought a dash or so would be lovely in a fresh peach sorbet this summer. Besides, if we don't like them, I can pawn them off on my dad. He likes fruity mixed drinks, especially anything peach based, most especially Fuzzy Navels, and I'm guessing a dash or two would be good in that.

Anyway, Southeast Indian vegetarian buffet's got me down, and this thread's got me inspired, so I'm off to make a club soda and bitters. Seriously stomach settling.


Gourmet Anarchy

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Greetings from a new member!

The orange bitters discussion has been very interesting, so I thought about joining in with my own experience on making orange bitters.

Last year I made orange betters using the recipe I found from Paul Harrington's column on Hotwired. The original recipe is attributed to Charles H. Baker. The recipe calls for finely chopped dried orange peel and Seville oranges (Citrus aurantium or pomeranssi in Finnish) in particular.

When I was done following the recipe, I had in my bottle very bitter, non-potable liquid that starts with a fairly easy taste and then becomes very bitter in the end lasting for a long time. The aftertaste is about the same as what I get if I chew a little of the dried peel by itself. When comparing it to Angostura, my version of orange bitters lacks the strong taste Angostura initially has but wins with the longer aftertaste.

I have not had a possibility to taste any other orange bitters so I would be interested in hearing if my description sounds even remotely orange bitterish. When using the bitters with drinks, I have noticed that the addition of my orange bitters mostly affects the aftertaste, not surprising based on the above description, and I am wondering how other versions of orange bitters blend in. Or in other words, should I go for another batch and try to achieve a more evely distributed taste?

Heikki Vatiainen

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Greetings from a new member!

Welcome to eGullet, Heikki!

Last year I made orange betters using the recipe I found from Paul Harrington's column on Hotwired. The original recipe is attributed to Charles H. Baker. The recipe calls for finely chopped dried orange peel and Seville oranges (Citrus aurantium or pomeranssi in Finnish) in particular.

When I was done following the recipe, I had in my bottle very bitter, non-potable liquid that starts with a fairly easy taste and then becomes very bitter in the end lasting for a long time. The aftertaste is about the same as what I get if I chew a little of the dried peel by itself. When comparing it to Angostura, my version of orange bitters lacks the strong taste Angostura initially has but wins with the longer aftertaste.

The recipe you cite is a slightly modernized version of the one from The Gentleman's Companion - the same one discussed up-thread. I use it; I know Doc Cocktail has used it at least once. He and drinkboy seem to be the real experts around here - but here's my take FWIW.

When I first tried this recipe (about 10 years ago) I didn't have access to Seville oranges, so I simply used the navel oranges which I eat all winter in any case. The result was so good that I haven't changed the formula since! :rolleyes: Actually, though, I do want to get a few Seville peels to mix in with the next batch; my orange bitters is perhaps a little on the mild side, and could stand a little extra bitterness - as it is I'd say it's almost potable. More importantly, it's highly aromatic, with a powerful and distinctively orange perfume. It's certainly OK that it isn't like Angostura - it shouldn't be. But it should taste just about as strong, I think.

From an orange flavoring standpoint, I suspect the ideal is probably a combination of Seville and sweet oranges. But I also think you may want to vary the spice proportions. I don't know how you're measuring your "pinch"; the official measurement would be about 0.62 ml. But Baker's original recipe calls for 1/2 drachm of each of the spices; this equates to about 3.7 ml. (It's not a strictly correct conversion, perhaps, because it seems to mix dry and liquid measures. But at least it's proportionately accurate!) So the 1/2 drachm comes out to about 1.85 ml, which is three times the amount given in the recipe you worked from. Now this is where you really want Doc explaining which element hits the palate how; I can't address that technically, but I have a feeling that one reason the first taste of your bitters is perhaps less assertive than you want it to be is that it's too narrowly focused - i.e., it isn't carrying enough of those additional flavoring notes.

Does this make sense?

I have not had a possibility to taste any other orange bitters so I would be interested in hearing if my description sounds even remotely orange bitterish. When using the bitters with drinks, I have noticed that the addition of my orange bitters mostly affects the aftertaste, not surprising based on the above description, and I am wondering how other versions of orange bitters blend in. Or in other words, should I go for another batch and try to achieve a more evely distributed taste?

I have to admit that I have only tasted one orange bitters other than my own, so I don't know much about how it compares. I can say, however, that it is dinstinctive and powerfully orange-y (more orange-y, in fact, than the other bitters I've tried) right up front - if my hand slips and I pour it a tiny bit too generously (say, three drops instead of two), it will take over the whole drink with its pervasive perfume. So, er, though mine may err a bit on the side of Too Much of a Good Thing, at any rate I do think you should be getting more from yours than just aftertaste.

If I were in your place, though, I certainly would not discard this batch. I'd make the next one with all sweet orange peels and go a little overboard with the spices. Then experiment with blending the two batches. The trouble with that approach is that inevitably you will achieve perfection and then be unable to reproduce it. But you'll have fun trying! :laugh:

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My greetings too!

I think there have been enough opinions of ingredient combos upthread for me to need to spout any more of my own. What MIGHT have value to all of us would be to list the ingredients in a really GOOD commercial brand of the past. I'm a huge fan of Scheiffelin's Old House Orange Bitters, last made in the late 60s or early 70s. No proportions are given, of course, but it's a launching pad. Some of you cooks may have commentary on some of these:

Caffeine, oil (of) orange, tincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of cusparia, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger. Alcohol 30% (60 proof).

Comments?

Here's mine: Mmmmm, nummy num zippy! Caffeine right up front. What's THAT all about?! :unsure:

--Doc.


Edited by drcocktail (log)

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I got my lovely box of mixed bitters from Fee's today.

Can I just say again how darn nice these folks are.

The total for 4/5 pint old fashioned bitters, 4/5 pint orange bitter and the small bottle of peach bitters, plus UPS shipping to NC was $20 and change. Not bad at all! I'm quite pleased.

We tasted a bit of each straight up (a small dash of each).

We like the Fee's old fashioned bitters quite a lot. Nice and spicy. Husband says they remind him of Christmas.

The orange ones we also like. Not as complex as the old fashioned, but I can tell they're still going to add that extra something to cocktails. Long bitter finsh. Nice.

Even Husband liked the peach bitters. He doesn't even like peach. They do have a strong almond flavor that I really, really like.


Gourmet Anarchy

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Caffeine, oil (of) orange, tincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of cusparia, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger. Alcohol 30% (60 proof).

Comments?

Here's mine: Mmmmm, nummy num zippy! Caffeine right up front. What's THAT all about?! :unsure:

OK, here's mine. Can't tell you about the caffeine, but I've been educating myself on the botanicals/aromatics. I wasn't familiar (at least not by these names) with casparia, cascarilla, or chiretta, so I went off and boned up on them. Their primary common characteristic is that they are all... very bitter. Appropriate, I guess. Also, they all have medicinal properties, so their presence may well be partly attributable to descent from medicinal bitters - especially as the medicinal properties in question are all such as are attributed to said nostrums in their marvelous flowery propaganda pieces.

Starting from the end, then, and working backwards:

Chiretta - botanical name swertia chirata. A member of the gentianaceae. Yes, as in Gentian, which we were discussing the other day as a bittering agent - same family. Liver tonic, stimulant, relieves constipation.

Cascarilla - botanical name croton eleuteria. A member of the euphorbiaciae, commonly known as spurges. Tonic, stimulant to mucous membranes. Good against diarrhea (i.e. counteracts chiretta in that respect).

Casparia - botanical name casparia febrifuga, better known as (wait for it...!)... TRUE ANGOSTURA. A member of the rutaceae, i.e. closely related to (wait for it...!)... RUE. Again, stimulant, tonic - also purgative, can cause diarrhea.

So. From a flavoring standpoint, you're just looking at bitter, bitter, and bitter. The only flavoring elements that add anything else (besides the orange, that is) are lemon and ginger, both of which I was thinking I'd like to add to my next batch, because I like them. Medicinally, BTW, ginger shares some of the properties of the above - can relieve diarrhea (that makes for a balance, then - two for two), and is generally good as a digestive.

And two of the three are (forms of) bittering agents we've discussed up-thread - though I swear when I suggested rue I hadn't the slightest idea that it was a close cousin of the True Angostura! Man, when I think how long I've been growing it, and how useless I thought it was outside of poetic applications...!

Obviously, there can be no lack of bitterness there. I suspect, though, that those components are present only in trace amounts, i.e. not enough of them to have any serious medicinal effect even if you gulped the stuff down - more a vestigial harking back to the origins of bitters (she said through her hat - I haven't looked this part up yet, but I'd be willing to bet it's true). I also think you must lose something in that you don't get the aromatic qualities of the spices Baker used. Not to suggest that his should be the only possible choices - far from it (though I do think they work well). But I do like the idea of adding aromatic notes as well as bitter ones. Especially if you're using seville oranges, which are already so bitter.

Only other thing that occurs to me is that the alcoholic content is lower than I'd expect. I calculated mine rather naïvely, I guess, simply assuming that by volume it pretty much had to amount to the sum of its parts - so I pegged it at 75%.

Oooh - here's something interesting. Looking at the label of my Angostura bottle (45% alcohol BTW), I see that it lists gentian among its ingredients and is not specific about any of the other elements which it refers to as "aromatic" and as "harmless vegetable flavoring extractives." On another panel of the label it says, quite prominently, "Does not contain Angostura Bark." But nowhere does it say "Does not contain Rue." Wouldn't it be a gas if.... ! :shock::wink:

EDIT to add: Esprit d'escalier: The only thing I can think of that makes sense out of the caffeine is that it too, like the 3 C's, is a stimulant (not to mention a dopamine precursor). I'm remembering its use in the old OTC headache remedy APC (aspirin, phenacetin, caffeine) - also as a component in some modern-day migraine and hangover remedies. So maybe it's another medicinal holdover. Damned if I know, but it's interesting to speculate. Wouldn't it be even more interesting to know how high the concentration is....


Edited by balmagowry (log)

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Yeah, Angostura Bitters was so-named because it was originally prepared in a town originally named Angostura. Other bitters, notably the lost lamented American Abbott's Bitters used that point to their advantage - added angostura bark and called their product (Abbott's) angostura bitters - until Angostura Wupperman successors to Dr. J.G.B. Siegert MADE them stop under force of law.

Good researching, LG. You might also note that cascarilla was a substitute for cinchona - from which quinine derives, and of course quinine, besides being an antimalarial (or perhaps because of it) was the bitter basis for (Indian) tonic water, and the quinquinas - such as Dubonnet, Raphael, and Lillet! Bitter agent, get it - THAT'S why they're aperitifs! The interconnections made a nerd like me SING! :laugh:

--Doc.

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Caffeine, oil (of) orange, tincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of cusparia, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger. Alcohol 30% (60 proof).

Comments?

Here's mine: Mmmmm, nummy num zippy! Caffeine right up front. What's THAT all about?! :unsure:

--Doc.

Can't put my hands on it right now, but I think I remember reading somewhere that caffeine is one of the bitterest substances around -- certainly one of the bitterest ones we regularly ingest.


Janet A. Zimmerman, aka "JAZ"
Manager
jzimmerman@eGullet.org
eG Ethics signatory
Author, The Healthy Pressure Cooker Cookbook and All About Cooking for Two

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Caffeine, oil (of) orange, tincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of cusparia, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger. Alcohol 30% (60 proof).

Comments?

Here's mine: Mmmmm, nummy num zippy! Caffeine right up front. What's THAT all about?! :unsure:

--Doc.

Can't put my hands on it right now, but I think I remember reading somewhere that caffeine is one of the bitterest substances around -- certainly one of the bitterest ones we regularly ingest.

DUH! Of course, you're right. How bird-brained of me! and how clever of you. Bitter. Dang - shoulda thought of that. :blush:

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Well these bitters certainly WERE...bitter. I love the sort of 19th century-style ingredients they chose. As Balma said, leaning to the medicinal. I love that. Also though, this is where i got my hint that a bit of ginger was a very good thing in orange bitters.

--Doc.

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Well these bitters certainly WERE...bitter. I love the sort of 19th century-style ingredients they chose. As Balma said, leaning to the medicinal. I love that. Also though, this is where i got my hint that a bit of ginger was a very good thing in orange bitters.

Sounds kind of unrelievedly bitter, though. I think on general principle I like the idea of a little more dimension, y'know? I mean, with aromatic bitters, isn't that pretty much the point?

I too am very interested in the use of ginger, because ginger is the only really aromatic component we've discussed so far which also has a history playing the lead role in some forms of 19th-century medicinal bitters. Vinegar bitters - there's another notion that caught my attention! though for culinary rather than cocktail use, I imagine. Hmmmmm. I know someone who knows someone who has access to some good sources of quack pamphlets - wonder if there's anything to be learned about formulation and claims?

Doc, how about doing a side-by-side comparison of all seven or eight (I disremember how many there are) of those different orange bitters you have? tasting notes and ingredient lists. You game? I would think that'd yield some fascinating results.

Another thing I'm wondering about - in the cases of ginger and rue, which would be likely to yield the best results, fresh or dried? I know all the peels are dried, and I assume there's a reason for that - but does it hold true for aromatics?

Oh, and another thought about caffeine - I wonder when it was first isolated?

[EDIT for de-klutzification]


Edited by balmagowry (log)

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Sounds kind of unrelievedly bitter, though. I think on general principle I like the idea of a little more dimension, y'know? I mean, with aromatic bitters, isn't that pretty much the point?

You'd be right if that were so, but it isn't These bitters were quite bitter, but they had a WONDERFUL depth - unparalleled among orange bitters I've tried.

Doc, how about doing a side-by-side comparison of all seven or eight (I disremember how many there are) of those different orange bitters you have? tasting notes and ingredient lists. You game? I would think that'd yield some fascinating results.

Sounds like bitter ole' fun, but some of those bottles are either not good anymore or too rare to open without having a second sealed bottle. There are really only 3 of such history and import that the test would be useful with their inclusion. They are: Field's - too rare to open unless I get a second one, Jung & Wulfe - not good anymore, and Legendre - for which I DO have 2 bottles, well-sealed though from 1934 are probably still good, and I MIGHT just be convinced! I hadn't felt the need before thanks to my cache of Fee Bros Orange Bitters and Old House. None of those other bottles list any ingredients either.

Another thing I'm wondering about - in the cases of ginger and rue, which would be likely to yield the best results, fresh or dried? I know all the peels are dried, and I assume there's a reason for that - but does it hold true for aromatics?

I don't know, but might be workable to try both ways? I'm guessing a little bruised ginger root would be the way to go there, but as for rue, your guess is more educated than mine! I'm going to guess dried.

Oh, and another thought about caffeine - I wonder when it was first isolated?

Well, I know it was used in the 19th century as the "propellent" in the following commonly prescribed remedy: opium, salicylic acid (think aspirin), and caffeine. Can't get THAT anymore!

--Doc. (edited for spelling and for dat ting I fergot)


Edited by drcocktail (log)

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The only flavoring elements that add anything else (besides the orange, that is) are lemon and ginger, both of which I was thinking I'd like to add to my next batch, because I like them.

If I remember correctly, orange bitters have been recognized to blend well with whisky just like ginger based wines and liqueurs. Using ginger as an ingredient of orange bitters sounds like quite a good idea.

Heikki Vatiainen

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Does this make sense?

Thanks, it does make very much sense, both the text above and below of what I quoted. I would also like to thank the forum members for their hearty welcomes!

Your comment clarified a lot of what I had in mind about the flavor; what it should be like and how much to use the flavoring agents. The "pinch" I used was quite small, something you could hold between your thumb and forefinger. Now I conclude the aromatic flavor vs. bitter orange base ratio was not blanced at all and the Seville oranges completly overtook that batch. It looks like a good way to proceed with the second try is to add some sweet orange peel, with peel containing both zest and pith, and increase the amount of the spices.

Increasing the amount of spices is actually quite obvious now knowing the strong taste of Seville oranges and re-reading the recipe where it says to crush the seeds and peel with a muddler. I did notice that my small pinches were completly lost among the orange peel and it was wery hard to tell if they were there or not and especially if they were crushed at all!

This discussion has been very enlightening. The goal (what to expect for orange bitters) is now much more visible.

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Your comment clarified a lot of what I had in mind about the flavor; what it should be like and how much to use the flavoring agents. The "pinch" I used was quite small, something you could hold between your thumb and forefinger. Now I conclude the aromatic flavor vs. bitter orange base ratio was not blanced at all and the Seville oranges completly overtook that batch. It looks like a good way to proceed with the second try is to add some sweet orange peel, with peel containing both zest and pith, and increase the amount of the spices.

I think you'll find, in any case, that many of the sweeter types of oranges have thinner peels with less pith; or that the ones with thicker peels have pith that is slightly less bitter.

Increasing the amount of spices is actually quite obvious now knowing the strong taste of Seville oranges and re-reading the recipe where it says to crush the seeds and peel with a muddler. I did notice that my small pinches were completly lost among the orange peel and it was wery hard to tell if they were there or not and especially if they were crushed at all!

Actually, until I looked it up yesterday, I had quite forgotten that there is an official scientific measurement for "pinch." I wonder how many cookbook authors and/or cooks are aware of it? It's a little embarrassing, because now I think of it I may well have used that term loosely in recipes myself. And it certainly isn't unusual to see ingredient lists call for "a generous pinch" or "a small pinch" of something.

What a pitfall for the unwary! Scope for misinterpretation at both ends. Scary.

It occurs to me that one way to make sure the spices get crushed is to do them separately from the peels - this would be feasible if you have kept them separable during steeping, in a loose piece of cheesecloth, for instance. I'm not sure whether that would affect flavor, but I imagine it's unlikely; doesn't make any measurable difference with a bouquet garni, after all.

This discussion has been very enlightening. The goal (what to expect for orange bitters) is now much more visible.

BTW, getting back to the issue of subjective measurements, I'd have to say I tend to measure my 1/2 drachm on the generous side; and I'd have to say that the flavor of my orange bitters is a bit... "over the top," perhaps. Which is fine with me; I think of all these things as having very powerful personalities. It's the proportions one uses in cocktails or cookery that may make them seem subtle.... :wink:

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Just a quick note before guest drop by, I just perused the ingredients on my OLDEST bottle of Old House Orange Bitters. I hadn't thought about it before, assuming them to be the same as, in the main, they are. Here is that listing:

Caffeine, caramel, amaranth color, oil (of) orange, tiincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of angostura, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger.

Cool! One of my bottles actually called it angostura! I'm even more tickled by the amaranth coloring! What could go better than bugs and bitters?!! :wink:

--Doc.

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Caffeine, caramel, amaranth color, oil (of) orange, tiincture (of) orange peel & the extracts of angostura, cascarilla, lemon peel, chiretta & ginger.

Cool! One of my bottles actually called it angostura! I'm even more tickled by the amaranth coloring! What could go better than bugs and bitters?!! :wink:

Um, bugs? What bugs? I don't see no bugs. :unsure:

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I'm curious to know if any of you have tried and can suggest a recipe for making it or some sort of equivalent. I don't mind buying the little six pack on occasion but would like to have one before dinner sometimes when dining out and need a set of instructions to give the bartender (should I happen to be in a place with a good bar). Th referenced thread is in Soft Drinks forum as there is no alcohol in this beverage but perhaps it belongs on this thread?

Stappj Bitter Apertif

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I am currently making my second batch of orange bitters. This time I have been documenting the process by making a web page which has the recipe, notes and pictures of different phases. This batch is not finished yet, but I think there is enough information on the page so that it can made generally available.

Besides making notes for myself, my idea was to make a page that people find useful if they want to experiment with making bitters. I would appreciate seeing any comments you might have about the method, recipe and other subjects. Hopefully I am on the right track :)

The link is http://www.iki.fi/vatiainen/orange-bitters/

Heikki Vatiainen

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