Weight Watchers (Part 1)

[Cusina]

LEdlund, I feel exactly the same way about the core plan. My biggest problem is portion sizes. I need to learn through calorie counts exactly what I'm eating before I can give myself more reign.

I have a library cookbook habit. I love to check them out and peruse. Last week was Nigella Lawson's "How to Eat". Wow, beautiful stuff. Way, way too rich for me while I'm on this plan. The last chapter of the book was devoted to her healthy eating theory. It isn't that far off from the core plan, however, her recipes don't match up. The siren song of whole cream gets to her, I can tell. I was glad to see that she at least addressed the issue but it seemed like an afterthought. It is almost as if she is saying "Here are all these beautiful recipes, buuuuuttttt, you know, you really shouldn't eat much of them." Gee thanks.

This week's library find is really good though. The New Mayo Clinic Cookbook I love that every recipe gives specific nutritional information plus, it is serious food porn. 90% of the recipes have gorgeous and very clear photos next to them. Asparagus with Hazelnut Gremolata, Avocado salad with Ginger Miso Dressing, Whole-Grain Buttermilk Biscuits, Posole with Fresh Corn Gorditas... yum. Can't wait to experiment.

[therese]

Where did you get the two and three serving points values? I think upthread it mentioned that it was online? Do I need to sign up for the online service to get that information? Can you tell I want to get the most bang for my points?

I don't know whether you have to be using the on-line version of WW to get access to the Points Calculators and database. Seems like people who subscribe to the usual format should get access, as I'm pretty sure you pay more than I do (though I'm not sure of that). And there is the personal touch of a leader and so forth that I don't have.

I get access to the database through something called my "Points Tracker", which is basically my journal or log of food consumed and activity points earned. I can see a day at a time or a week at a time, and there's also a weight tracker that gives me little reward stars when I meet some sort of goal.

The WW community forums contain so many questions about points that are easily available through the on-line tools that I have to assume that they're either not available or not obviously available.

No books, no writing down, no effort (or very little).

Lots of info that's not immediately apparent: 1 cup of tomatoes is 0 points, but 1.5 cups is 0.5 points. Same thing for onions.

Dinner tonight, by the way:

Egg white omelette with onions, with chopped tomatoes on the side.

[chardgirl]

I couldn't agree more:

Basically, you can pretty much assume that the less "convenient" a food is, the more likely it will be a core food. I think this is a great approach, and I think it accounts in large part for increased frequency of obesity in this country: food is simply too cheap and too easy to prepare.

I'll officially hear about CORE tomorrow morning. I try to cook with my children, model making food at home everyday, etc. One thing I constantly battle but try my best at is keeping the kitchen fairly cleaned up: it makes me want to cook more.

Thanks for all your posts!

-cg

[Abra]

Sorry, nanuq, I misread a comma into your post between fruit and yogurt - mea culpa!

This is my third core day, and I'm liking it very much. I find it easier to do than flex, I feel more full although I'm eating about the same number of points (but about the equivalent of eating all my flex points each day), and it feels more "correct" to me. Now to see whether I'll lose this week or not.

Initially I had the portion size anxiety thing too, but let's take last night as an example. I put a chicken leg (drumstick and thigh, no skin), a roasted sweet potato, and some cauliflower puree on my plate. I ate it all up, but didn't go and have more chicken, even though I was certainly "allowed" to. I think that as long as you use your head and give yourself a balanced plateful of food, overeating by much is very unlikely. Of course, had I just sat down with the chicken, I would have eaten much more of it.

And the restriction on number of times per day for cereal and pasta or rice really is meaningful to me. Yesterday I had leftover congee for breakfast, but there was more than I wanted in the morning in the bowl. I left it, and though "I'll eat that later for a snack." But no, it's only once a day, so that was that. And because I'd had that instead of cereal for breakfast, that meant no cereal all day. It's very interesting to see how it works in practice. I am slowly aware of a feeling growing that perhaps I can actually trust myself to do it right, which is very cool if it's true.

[therese]

I'll officially hear about CORE tomorrow morning. I try to cook with my children, model making food at home everyday, etc. One thing I constantly battle but try my best at is keeping the kitchen fairly cleaned up: it makes me want to cook more.

Thanks for all your posts!

Thanks to you as well, chardgirl, and to other participating in this thread. And of course particular thanks to Jensen for starting the thread.

Cooking with the kids is great---also sorts of things to be learned about food and nutrition, but also cool chemistry and biology and math and geography.

Keeping the kitchen tidy definitely pays off. Recently remodeling ours has also been great---I can barely bring myself to leave it!

[memesuze]

Using the USDA data for red and white wine respectively for a 25.36 ounce bottle plugged into WWCalc, a piece of PDA software that was once available on the internet until WW forced the author to remove it, I calculate the points for a whole bottle to be 10.6 for red and 10.1 for white.

This agrees with a formula I found on the net that referenced Patent number 6,040,531. The formula is P = (C/50) + (F/12) - (R/5), P being points, C, calories, F, fat grams, and R, fiber grams capped at no more than 4 grams.

I suppose one could use a spread sheet and this formula to create a points calculator. Me, I just use WWCalc.

And I appreciate this thread - it's returned my to the straighter path - although I join Abra in preferring my beverage points to be wine, rather than juice or milk. I've always gone for fruit in my hand rather than in my glass - need that fiber too.

[nanuq]

Sorry, nanuq, I misread a comma into your post between fruit and yogurt - mea culpa!

No problem, Abra - I think I may try core when I am having a "stronger" week - this is not one of those, I'm wanting to nibble and not count, which is very dangerous.

I'm making the Au Gratin Potatoes tonight from the WW site, I've made them before they are pretty good.

[therese]

WW is presumably fairly aggressive about protecting its name and ensuing revenue streams, so not surprising that it would want WWCalc yanked.

But I was thinking last night about the impact of the Core plan on another of their revenue streams, the Smart Ones brand of convenience foods. None of them is comprised of core foods only, so somebody using Core would automatically have to count one of those loathsome trays of crap towards his Flex points, right?

Or is WW going to re-package this stuff so that is says it's core, or possibly even change the recipes so that they are all core? Or maybe you're allowed to have a certain number of these things a week and I didn't notice it on the plan description?

What are they telling those of you who attend meetings?

In any case a potential financial hit unless WW addresses it.

[momlovestocook]

I read on the message boards that the 2 point bars seemed to be missing at the meetings as well. Obviously not core friendly. Isn't there some lawsuit with the makers of the frozen dinners or desserts? Not up on all the business news.

In Canada, we only have weight watchers breads-no frozen foods. I guess the only ones around here that would be core are the lean cuisine atkins-3 points but not very tasty. I tried the beef one in a moment of I need supper quick thought. Rubber meat and tasteless sauce YUCK.

Oh the recipe for lemon greek chicken thighs was very tasty. I put it in the marinade in the morning and by supper the chicken was had a strong lemon, garlic flavor which I like. Dh said he liked it too-the chicken was really moist. It would probably be nice with some bulgur or couscous instead of the potatoes.

I'm hearing good reviews of the apple couscous breakfast recipe. I may try that this weekend.

Sandra

[therese]

Lean Cuisine makes an Atkins product? I've seen the various low carb meals boasting of their "net carbs", but nothing specificallly mentioning Atkins yet.

So far I've found two Lean Cuisine frozen meals that I can bear: stuffed cabbage (3 points) and spaghetti (5 points). The stuffed cabbage is a tad on the slimy side, but then stuffed cabbage is inherently on the slimy side, so that's fine, and there are mashed potatoes (which hold up well with freezing). The pasta in the spaghetti is not great, but there's so much more sauce (with ground meat and mushrooms) that you don't pay too much attention to the pasta anyway.

Suitable for emergency use. Better than those MREs that now come equipped with a filtration unit so that you can use pee to rehydrate them. Though given the amount of water one drinks on WW it probably wouldn't have to work to hard to filter already very dilute pee.

[memesuze]

WWCalc is a points calculator as well as a journaling tool - once the points for a particular food item or combination have been calculated using a part of the software, WWCalc remembers the calculation and plugs it into the journal. I understand the protection of their patent on the name and concept- but for me, it's too late, I'm already using the software, the formula is readily available at the patent office, and I've given enough money to WW. I don't want to get into any arguments about open source code and such....

[Cusina]

Though given the amount of water one drinks on WW it probably wouldn't have to work to hard to filter already very dilute pee.

Therese, this cracked me up.

So, after doing some more reading I've done an about face and switched to the core plan. Thanks, Tess, for posting that frolicanddetour link. I started thinking long term, which plan would be more sustainable for me as a life long eating pattern, and the core seemed to fit that goal best.

So far, I'm liking it. The biggest suprise is how much I missed MILK. The flex system discouraged it. I didn't want to be drinking my points. I may be delusional but I feel like I have more energy with a glass of milk in me this morning. It seems like the core plan really encourages you to be creative with condiments and flavors. The proof is on the scale six weeks from now, I suppose, but for now it's nice to not have to write down every detail. The points-pad is so simple. I can also see a much more direct reward relationship for exercising with this program. In the flex point system those activity points just got mixed into the rest of the daily total. With this system your APs go straight to the treat pile and you really connect how walking that extra mile gets you an extra glass of wine or whatever.

Breakfast this morning was steel cut oats, sprinkled with splenda and blueberries. Tasty. I can see that becoming a staple for me.

[Abra]

Cusina - try some evaporated skim milk on your oatmeal with blueberries. The milk is sweet by nature, and I was able to enjoy the oatmeal with no other sweetener than berries and milk, which was very surprising to me. Half a cup, which is actually quite a lot, has as much calcium as a cup of skim milk, and counts as a dairy.

The unthinkable happened this morning - I didn't finish my breakfast! It was about a 7 point bowl of leftover congee (the last, finally!) with tofu, plus some leftover veggies from last night. Ok, I know, but I like to eat dinner food for breakfast, especially with some sort of hot sauce. It just gets me in gear. When I looked at the bowl I thought "too much", but then, I always eat 6 points for breakfast, and often 7, so I thought I'd end up eating it all. I was actually full after about 5-6 points' worth. A miracle has occurred.

It will be a challenge today to go out to lunch. The place I'm going is supposed to have several vegetarian options, so that'll possibly include some all-core foods. It occurs to me that any vegan dish is all-core, which gives me a sort of handle for restaurant-going.

[therese]

Okay, so I'm going to stay on Flex for now, but keep track of things in Core fashion for this week as well. I already eat mostly core foods anyway, so I'm not changing my food choices.

So, a couple of questions:

1. If I earn activity points are they banked for the week? Or do I have to use them the day I earn them?

2. One of the things that I like for either lunch or a snack is Wasa Multigrain Crispbread Crackers. Yes, it's sort of like eating very crunchy cardboard, but I actually like them, and have always liked them, and WW gives a 1 cracker serving a whopping points value of 0. If you eat two of them then you have to score it as 1 (that rounding thing again), but I never eat more than one at a meal.

So what would I do with them on Core? Count it against my Flex Points is the obvious answer, as I can't find them listed on the Core list, but then how many points should I allow? And it seems somehow unfair to lump crunchy cardboard with beer and chocolate.

[Abra]

I used to eat a lot of Wasa too, but no, it's not core. My understanding is that 1 is free, just like 1/2 cup of Fiber 1 is free, but they're not Core, so after that little freebie you do have to count the points. All foods are pointed the same on Core as on Flex, so just use the same number you always did.

I have read on the boards that APs are to be used the same day, but on the Core Points Pad when you add APs it just throws them into the pot with your 35 flex points, so in practice you can use them anytime.

[Cusina]

I'm going to miss my afternoon Wasa snacks. I used to do them with ff cream cheese, 2 for 1 point. But, I don't like them enough to spend flex points on them, for sure. Funny how things come and go when you change the "rules".

Lunch was kind of a challenge for me today as I haven't had the chance to go to the grocery since switching plans. I ended up with a tuna salad over spinach. Made the tuna with ff plain yogurt, diced dill pickle, and red pepper and it wasn't bad. It wasn't great either though. I need to find more lunch options. Actually, what I need is to prevent my children from crawling all over me while I'm trying to prepare lunch so that I can actually think. They are mighty persistent when they are hungry.

[Cusina]

Oh, and Abra, thanks for the evaporated milk tip, I'll try it.

[nanuq]

At my meeting on Monday, someone asked about the SmartOnes Meals, and if core ones would become available - no one knew the answer. They still had the 2 point bars on sale, they are not core. They also mentioned that the shakes are limited to one a day.

I'm now off for a week or so, hoping to maintain

[therese]

I was thinking about evaporated skim milk just this AM, oddly enough. That would be great on oatmeal.

I think I'll just give up on the Wasa crackers. More wine allowance.

[Jensen]

Made the tuna with ff plain yogurt, diced dill pickle, and red pepper and it wasn't bad. It wasn't great either though.

That sounds like my lunch from yesterday...tuna salad sandwiches (my intro to Core happens in a couple of hours). I add a little finely diced sweet onion (Vidalia or Walla Walla) instead of the pickle and pepper. It was pretty much what I would have expected from tuna salad, even if it were made with mayo.

Here's a question...do I have to count the cranberry juice I'm guzzling for a UTI as part of my points? It really seems unfair...

[chardgirl]

I went to my meeting today, and I like that week by week one can do the different plans. I'm most deifinitely going to give Core a try, because it's how I eat anyway. I like the emphasis on 'eating til satisfied, not stuffed'.

And.... avocados are core! Need I say more?

cg

[Jensen]

And.... avocados are core! Need I say more?

There is a certain charm to that. I also noticed that carnitas has made the points list in the "Getting Started" booklet. I'm sure the points value is wrong though...how could there be 9 points in 1 cup of carnitas?

(Okay, maybe the fried carnitas have 9 points but I'm sure the way I make them has fewer points.)

[chardgirl]

Re: Carnitas: my understanding of what they ARE is fried, then fried again til crispy little pork pieces. I'm certain you can make them yourself with less fat, but we can also buy low fat tortilla chips at the store! How do you make your carnitas?? I'd love to know.

-cg

[Jensen]

I make mine by first simmering the pork for several hours (with various seasonings) and then roasting it in the oven. For me, these are the "benchmark" carnitas. Needless to say, I can't make it during the summer months

Here's the recipe I use (although there are usually variations made):

4-5 lb. boneless pork shoulder or butt

2 onions, peeled and quartered

4 stalks celery, cut into chunks

4 cloves garlic

2 bay leaves

2 tsp dried thyme

About 1 teaspoon salt

1/2 cup milk

1. Rinse pork and put in a stock pot. Add onions, celery, garlic, bay leaves, thyme, 1 teaspoon salt, and enough water to cover meat.

2. Bring to a boil over high heat; cover, reduce heat, and simmer until meat is very tender, about 2 to 2-1/2 hours. Transfer pork to a 9- by 13-inch baking pan; reserve cooking juices. Use 2 forks to pull meat into large chunks. Pour milk over meat.

3. Bake pork in a 325° oven until drippings are browned, about 1 hour, stirring and scraping pan occasionally.

4. Meanwhile, pour reserved juices through a strainer into a bowl; discard residue. Skim and discard fat. Return juices to pan. Boil over high heat until reduced to 2 cups (45 minutes).

5. When pork drippings are browned, add 1 cup of the reduced juices; scrape drippings free and stir meat, breaking into smaller pieces. Bake until juices have evaporated and drippings are browned, about 15 minutes, stirring occasionally. Repeat step, using remaining juices, and cook until meat edges are crisp and browned, 15 to 20 minutes longer. Season to taste with salt.

[Jensen]

I forgot to mention that the carnitas recipe makes one serving.

While I was in Connecticut, my friend made a dessert that I think might be very suitable as a WW dessert. It's called Schaum Torte...kind of like pavlova but the meringue was chewier.

Now, could this be made with Splenda with no ill effects? or a combination of Splenda and sugar? I think I calculated it to be 3 or 4 points per serving. Since I'm stingy with my points (must have points available for beer!), I think it's worthwhile to try to get them lower.

Well, as long as it doesn't impair the taste, of course.

Here's the recipe as she made it:

11 egg whites

1.5 cups sugar

2 tsp vanilla

2 tsp vinegar

1/4 tsp cream of tartar

Preheat oven to 500

Beat the hell out of the egg whites until stiff and shiny. (Note to self: buy a KitchenAid stand mixer before attempting this recipe at home!) Beat sugar in slowly, alternating solids with liquids. Add cream of tartar.

Scoop into a greased springform pan. Put in oven and shut oven off.

Leave until cool. (We actually made it the night before.)

We had it served with fresh berries and it really was quite lovely.