surly service in NYC

[Lyle]

Has anybody noticed a different attitude towards others since the the events two years ago? I didn't, but I've read it theorized. Have NY'ers, especially the service industry, had a at least temporary "change of heart" (again, nobody's ever been rude to me without something to gain), or is this just the perception of certain media?

[elyse]

I've seen no difference at all.

[cakewalk]

Me neither. New Yorkers are just as great as we've always been. (Modest, too.)

[Lyle]

So tourists were always welcome in NY. If we only knew...

[tommy]

I'll bet you anything these people were not from the city.  People from the island have little to no accent.

"from the island"? you mean like born and raised in manhattan?

Yes.

well i think we need to revisit the definition of "new yorker" or "from new york." there are very few, relatively people born and raised on the island who are still there in the adult years. clearly.

[beans]

Rude, shmude. I honestly don't care terribly as I know I was polite and pleasant so whatever problem this service industry person is projecting upon you is no big deal. It's not about you, it's all about them; or in "their" case a "me" moment. A different spin on perspective: "I'm having the problem with you asking for warmer tea, how dare you!"

Bleh. It's a lot to get too werked up over such a measely cup of tea. People are crabby, rude, happy, polite, pleasant. I don't expect the whirled to always greet me with the Disneyana Mickey Mouse smile of enthusiasm and cheer, however it is nice.

I'm on a sliding scale of caring about my perception of rudeness in customer service. It rises expontentially and in direct correlation to the amount I need to depart with from my little purse. Now, if I were spending $250 on a bottle of wine and am being served some fabulous 5+ course dinner and sharing said experience with the special one I love, well then I'd be hopping mad and livid.

Guess I've worked in service long enough not to care really if a coffee/tea counter shop person is having a bad day or a problem with my seemingly innocent and normal request.

Pointing out that this is limited to perceptions of NYC, well that's just silly. That's Anyplace whirled wide at any given moment.

[Kerouac1964]

Here's another way to look at it.....

People living/working in NYC are likely to interact with many more servers, waiters etc, than people in smaller cities and towns.

So...what you are experiencing is actually a statistical phenomena. You are cycling thru many more potential encounters where rudeness can occur.

I remember my first visit to NYC, I was all tense waiting for the "rudeness". I encountered none. I traveled on the subway, and even talked with "locals" and was pleasantly surprised that they were human beings and seemed proud of their city.

Here in the stix, [iowa], daily life is much different. For instance a routine work day for me was to get in my car, go thru a drive thru on the way to work - stopping for a yummy creamy cappucino. Hardly any time there to encounter rudeness. Then, i was off to work. Once in a blue moon I might go off site for lunch. Then its off to home again [possibly my favorite watering hole <g>]. Maybe another drive thru if I'm too tired to make dinner.

[elyse]

well i think we need to revisit the definition of "new yorker" or "from new york."  there are very few, relatively people born and raised on the island who are still there in the adult years.  clearly.

Yes.

[EJRothman]

Other than a minor "interaction" at a Cosi - my experiences have been positive - Re: Fine dining, coffee counter, hot dog cart, parking attendant, etc. To an indigenous Southerner, the interaction may seem impersonal - I find it efficient. It could also be that I have this “don’t fuck with me” scowl as my normal face.

I think we need to clarify that the entire Cosi esatablishment, New York or anywhere else, prides itself on having a "fuck you" attitude. They seem to think that people enjoy being treated badly.

-Eric

[EJRothman]

Brusque isn't necessarily a bad thing -- change it to gruff and it's damn near heartwarming -- but I'm not always convinced that the guy giving me the "hurry up, buddy, I got better things to do" attitude is rushing me along out of respect for my busy schedule.

Don't get me wrong -- last time I was in New York I was almost late for an appointment because the guy behind the counter at the 2nd Avenue Deli (native, judging by the accent) spent so long explaining the pros and cons of the different subway routes to where I was going, I almost couldn't get to the station on time.  And he through in the pickles and mustard for free. 

And of course, you can't get pastrami like that out here in the sticks.

I'll bet you anything these people were not from the city. People from the island have little to no accent.

There is definately a New York accent. Ask any New Yorker to say 'orange', 'forrest", or other words with the same 'o-' sound and the accent will be apparent. The rest of the country says 'OR-ange' and 'fORrest', but to a New Yorker it's 'ARE-ange' and 'fARErest'.

Finally, New York should not merely be defined as Manhattan. With rising real estate prices many Manhattanites are moving to areas of the 'outer-boroughs' which then become remarkably similar to their Manhattan bretheren. I.e. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Williamsburg - and to a lesser extent - Fort Greene, Astoria, and Jackson Heights. Some food for thought

-Eric

[elyse]

There is definately a New York accent.  Ask any New Yorker to say 'orange', 'forrest", or other words with the same 'o-' sound and the accent will be apparent.  The rest of the country says 'OR-ange' and 'fORrest', but to a New Yorker it's 'ARE-ange' and 'fARErest'.

Finally, New York should not merely be defined as Manhattan.  With rising real estate prices many Manhattanites are moving to areas of the 'outer-boroughs' which then become remarkably similar to their Manhattan bretheren.  I.e. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Williamsburg - and to a lesser extent - Fort Greene, Astoria, and Jackson Heights. Some food for thought 

-Eric

Phoenetically, there is little to no accent in those brought up in the city. It's the boroughs. Trust me. The city is too international and too cosmopolitan to pick up that type of accent.

New York City IS defined as Manhattan. Elsewhere, you have Brooklyn, Queens, etc.. Who says lets go to the city and ends up in Brooklyn? They mean Manhattan. Brooklyn use to be the 4th largest city in the world. It was still called Brooklyn.

[fresco]

Nationalism makes me uneasy. I can't say I'm any more comfortable with metropolitanism or whatever you call city-based jingoism. I can't recall getting rude service at any kind of restaurant in New York over a number of years. But to maintain that native New Yorkers are all a bunch of salt-of-the earth swell types is just giving in to dumb, and dangerous, sentimentalism. Rude assholes know no borders.

[fifi]

I just returned from several days in Calgary. All of "those people", restaurants, hotels, gas stations (asking for directions), you name it, where RELENTLESSLY cheerful, helpful, smiling til their cheeks hurt smiles, enthusiastic... ARG!!! I yearned for a little brusque efficiency. The really scary thing was that you got the distinct impression that all of these people were for real.

On my next trip, I intend to seek out assholes. They have to be everywhere... don't they? My (limited) experience in NY tells me that the ratio of assholes to nice folks is about the same as everywhere else. Well... maybe except for Calgary.

Edited June 5, 2003 by fifi (log)

[fresco]

RELENTLESSLY cheerful, helpful, smiling til their cheeks hurt smiles, enthusiastic... ARG!!!

Fifi,

Yup, sounds like Calgary. Have a nice day--or else!

[fifi]

I'll be careful next trip.

[vengroff]

You should try DC sometime, where the charm of the north meets the efficiency of the south.

[fresco]

where the charm of the north meets the efficiency of the south.

Combined with that storied civil service sense of humour. Swell.

[EJRothman]

There is definately a New York accent.  Ask any New Yorker to say 'orange', 'forrest", or other words with the same 'o-' sound and the accent will be apparent.  The rest of the country says 'OR-ange' and 'fORrest', but to a New Yorker it's 'ARE-ange' and 'fARErest'.

Finally, New York should not merely be defined as Manhattan.  With rising real estate prices many Manhattanites are moving to areas of the 'outer-boroughs' which then become remarkably similar to their Manhattan bretheren.  I.e. Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, Williamsburg - and to a lesser extent - Fort Greene, Astoria, and Jackson Heights. Some food for thought 

-Eric

Phoenetically, there is little to no accent in those brought up in the city. It's the boroughs. Trust me. The city is too international and too cosmopolitan to pick up that type of accent.

New York City IS defined as Manhattan. Elsewhere, you have Brooklyn, Queens, etc.. Who says lets go to the city and ends up in Brooklyn? They mean Manhattan. Brooklyn use to be the 4th largest city in the world. It was still called Brooklyn.

As far as accents go, exceptions can be made to any rule. Sure, New York is too cosmopolitan for any accent to be hard and fast across the plethora cultures that call it home. But I have been in many a place outside of New York City, where people have asked me if I was from New York - Not Brooklyn, not Queens, Not The Bronx - but New York. The tip off? My accent.

-Eric

[elyse]

Grew up where?

[KNorthrup]

I went to college with a girl from Long Island and it was months before we could understand her.

[4-3 if you're scoring at home, or even if you're alone.]

A few years back, my company hired a manager from NYC. Everyone was aghast at how rude he was. Always. But then mgmt would also shrug and say 'what do you expect?' I always wondered whether he was a total wimp who'd always been picked on in his previous life and was now just taking advantage of the reputation.

Along the same lines as NY's rep, I was amazed the one time I went to Paris (1991) and everyone was polite and friendly and willingly spoke English and it was all clean -- I meant to pass through quickly one day and ended up staying for 5.

[EJRothman]

Grew up where?

Brooklyn Heights

[elyse]

As I said.

[cakewalk]

"Phoenetically, there is little to no accent in those brought up in the city. It's the boroughs. Trust me. The city is too international and too cosmopolitan to pick up that type of accent."

Oh tosh. I really don't think it's a matter of trust. How can you argue that people who come from ANYPLACE have no discernable accent? This makes no sense. Brooklyn accents are sometimes (not always) noticeably unique, but aside from that it's pretty hard to distinguish between the boroughs (and I include Manhattan as ONE OF the boroughs, a part of New York), unless of course you're 'enry 'iggins. But New Yorkers are certainly noticeable by their accents.

I've had many, many people say to me, "you're from New York, right?" No one has ever said, "you're from the Bronx, right?" And lest you think I'm proving your point, I know plenty of people who grew up in Manhattan. And you know what? They SOUND like they may as well have grown up in the Bronx (IOW, we all drink "watah"). Maybe it's a class thing, like in England. Or maybe it depends on whether you went to public school or private school. But I don't agree that it's a "Manhattan vs. the boroughs" thing.

[EJRothman]

As I said.

Brooklyn Heights is not Bensonhurt (sp?). It's not in the heart of Brooklyn, it's one stop out of Manhattan. There is no discernable difference in the accent from the majority of Manhattan.

[hannah]

Nationalism makes me uneasy. I can't say I'm any more comfortable with metropolitanism or whatever you call city-based jingoism. I can't recall getting rude service at any kind of restaurant in New York over a number of years. But to maintain that  native New Yorkers are all a bunch of salt-of-the earth swell types is just giving in to dumb, and dangerous, sentimentalism. Rude assholes know no borders.

Bravo.