Soy sauce in Japan

[scott123]

Does shoyu go bad?

Okay, I went to my local Asian grocer today and picked up KIKKOMAN TOKUSEN MARUDAIZU SHOYU. They had two brands of Marudaizu on the shelf, Kikkoman and Yamasa. On the label, the Kikkimon had printed

2004.3

I'm guessing that this is a 2004 expiration date. The bottle was squeezed in a little (as if it had lost air) and there was a little cloudy sediment on the bottom.

The Yamasa Marudaizu had "2007.3" written on it.

I bought the Kikkoman both because it came highly recommended and because it appeared to have more body when I tilted the bottle from side to side.

Did I make the right choice? Shoyu should have enough salt in it to preserve it for quite some time, right?

Edited January 19, 2006 by scott123 (log)

[Hiroyuki]

Shoyu DOES go bad, of course!

2004.3 means March 2004, so I think you should return the bottle to the store if you haven't opened it.

[scott123]

*sigh* That's what I feared. Thanks.

[fenyx66]

What about after opening the bottle? How long can it last? Does it last longer in the fridge or at room temperature (which happens to be the same as the fridge right now :-) ? I bought a bottle about a month or 2 ago, and while I am pretty sure it's still good, I just wonder about after how many months should I throw it away and buy a new one...

[Hiroyuki]

What about after opening the bottle?  How long can it last?  Does it last longer in the fridge or at room temperature (which happens to be the same as the fridge right now :-) ?  I bought a bottle about a month or 2 ago, and while I am pretty sure it's still good, I just wonder about after how many months should I throw it away and buy a new one...

←

According to this (Japanese only), many manufacturers consider it best to keep it in the fridge and use it up within one month if you want to enjoy the flavor.

BUT, I don't keep mine in the fridge, I just keep it in the under-the-sink storage space and probably use it up in about... 2 or 3 months. The flavor will deteriorate slowly, over time, so I can't tell the difference between the fresh one and the old.

Edited to add:

I usually buy a 1.8-liter bottle.

Edited January 20, 2006 by Hiroyuki (log)

[torakris]

That is a pretty old bottle of soy sauce! I would return it.

I do not refrigerate my soy sauce and though I usually use it up in 2 to 4 months I have probably gone up to 9 months with an open bottle and never noticed any flavor differences.

The labels on most soy sauce bottles recommend it to be refrigerated after opening.

[Kent Wang]

http://yoga.at.infoseek.co.jp/flash/kikkomaso_e.htm

[Jason Perlow]

That's demented.

[Behemoth]

It's been around for a while, but it is a good one.

[SuzySushi]

Hahaha! Some people have entirely too much time on their hands!

[helenjp]

The average plastic bottle of shoyu will go bad over time, but not too fast. (But 2004 is too old!).

However, the expensive little bottles of upmarket shoyu are often not pasteurized, and they really do need to be refrigerated once opened.

[torakris]

I just found this:

black soy bean soy sauce

[BarbaraY]

The only Japanese soy sauce available here is Kikkoman so that is what I have used except for a bottle of Maruten usukuchi which has excellent flavor.

I recently ordered from one of my favorite Japanese mail order places. They had imported regular Kikkoman for a very reasonable price so I ordered it. I was surprised to find that it had a somewhat different ingredient list than my American made sauce.

Japanese: water, soybeans, wheat, salt, and alcohol.

American: water, wheat, soybeans, salt, sodium benzoate.

There is a very definite difference in flavor.

[helenjp]

So what does black bean soy sauce taste like? Apart from soy sauce, that is...

[torakris]

So what does black bean soy sauce taste like? Apart from soy sauce, that is...

←

no different from regular soy sauce, maybe just a bit stronger...

[_john]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

[MomOfLittleFoodies]

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

←

If it contains molasses, caramel coloring or hydrolyzed proteins of any kind, it's the kind that uses shortcuts.

[Hiroyuki]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

[_john]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

←

someone told me that by using chemicals the process be shortened to as few as 2 months. This is just hearsay so I'm not entirely sure.

[Hiroyuki]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

←

someone told me that by using chemicals the process be shortened to as few as 2 months. This is just hearsay so I'm not entirely sure.

←

I think I know what they mean, and I managed to find one source of information:

http://mrs_yang.hellokitty.ne.jp/blog/d/10108567.html

This blogger visited the Kikkoman plant in Noda city. She had read the comic book "Oishinbo", in which "sokusei" (accelerated?) soy sauce was mass produced using defatted soybeans, which was unsavory and flavorless because it wasn't brewed, and she thought that Kikkoman would make shoyu the same way. She was wrong. They took as long as eight months to make shoyu. She later learned that in the postwar period until the 1980s, they seemed to produce shoyu in a similar way, but in the 1990s and after, they stopped making such inferior shoyu and started to make efforts to make real, savory shoyu.

[_john]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

←

someone told me that by using chemicals the process be shortened to as few as 2 months. This is just hearsay so I'm not entirely sure.

←

I think I know what they mean, and I managed to find one source of information:

http://mrs_yang.hellokitty.ne.jp/blog/d/10108567.html

This blogger visited the Kikkoman plant in Noda city. She had read the comic book "Oishinbo", in which "sokusei" (accelerated?) soy sauce was mass produced using defatted soybeans, which was unsavory and flavorless because it wasn't brewed, and she thought that Kikkoman would make shoyu the same way. She was wrong. They took as long as eight months to make shoyu. She later learned that in the postwar period until the 1980s, they seemed to produce shoyu in a similar way, but in the 1990s and after, they stopped making such inferior shoyu and started to make efforts to make real, savory shoyu.

←

that makes sense. I actually consider kikkoman soy sauce to have quite good flavor. I've read the first 10 volumes of Oishinbo I wonder which volume is about soy sauce.

[Hiroyuki]

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

←

someone told me that by using chemicals the process be shortened to as few as 2 months. This is just hearsay so I'm not entirely sure.

←

I think I know what they mean, and I managed to find one source of information:

http://mrs_yang.hellokitty.ne.jp/blog/d/10108567.html

This blogger visited the Kikkoman plant in Noda city. She had read the comic book "Oishinbo", in which "sokusei" (accelerated?) soy sauce was mass produced using defatted soybeans, which was unsavory and flavorless because it wasn't brewed, and she thought that Kikkoman would make shoyu the same way. She was wrong. They took as long as eight months to make shoyu. She later learned that in the postwar period until the 1980s, they seemed to produce shoyu in a similar way, but in the 1990s and after, they stopped making such inferior shoyu and started to make efforts to make real, savory shoyu.

←

that makes sense. I actually consider kikkoman soy sauce to have quite good flavor. I've read the first 10 volumes of Oishinbo I wonder which volume is about soy sauce.

←

55, if I remember correctly.

[bdkollker]

We have two white soys, a sweet soy, a mushroom soy, regular soy, and a white soy powder that we use at work it allows us to vary flavors.

[Akiko]

QUOTE(_john @ Aug 23 2006, 12:25 AM)

QUOTE(Hiroyuki @ Aug 22 2006, 08:41 PM)

QUOTE(_john @ Aug 22 2006, 06:34 PM)

QUOTE(Hiroyuki @ Aug 22 2006, 04:42 PM)

QUOTE

I was reading about kijoyu or namashoyu which is unpasteurized shoyu. does anyone have any experience with unpasteurized shoyu? I'm curious about the taste difference (and the price difference).

Sorry, no. It's way too expensive for me to buy...

QUOTE

I also was wondering how I can tell the difference between normal shoyu (koikuchi shoyu) that is produced in the traditional manner from those that are produced using shortcuts. Is price always a good indicator or is there something similar to "certified organic" that distinguishes these types?

What do you mean by "shortcut"? Tamari shoyu takes three years to make, while koikuchi shoyu takes six months to make. How long does it take to make those "shortcut" shoyu?

someone told me that by using chemicals the process be shortened to as few as 2 months. This is just hearsay so I'm not entirely sure.

I think I know what they mean, and I managed to find one source of information:

http://mrs_yang.hellokitty.ne.jp/blog/d/10108567.html

This blogger visited the Kikkoman plant in Noda city. She had read the comic book "Oishinbo", in which "sokusei" (accelerated?) soy sauce was mass produced using defatted soybeans, which was unsavory and flavorless because it wasn't brewed, and she thought that Kikkoman would make shoyu the same way. She was wrong. They took as long as eight months to make shoyu. She later learned that in the postwar period until the 1980s, they seemed to produce shoyu in a similar way, but in the 1990s and after, they stopped making such inferior shoyu and started to make efforts to make real, savory shoyu.

that makes sense. I actually consider kikkoman soy sauce to have quite good flavor. I've read the first 10 volumes of Oishinbo I wonder which volume is about soy sauce.

55, if I remember correctly.

Hiroyuki, I've never heard of Oishinbo. Is it good? Educational as far as food as well as entertaining?

[Hiroyuki]

Hiroyuki, I've never heard of Oishinbo.  Is it good?  Educational as far as food as well as entertaining?

←

You've never heard of it? What a shame! It is absolutely good! I wouldn't call it educational, but it's highly informative, fun, interesting, entertaining, and intriguing. I haven't read all the volumes of Oishinbo, but I watched almost all episodes of the TV "anime" version.