Jump to content

  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Moving to France to work

jeniac42

By jeniac42
in France: Dining

 Share

Recommended Posts

jeniac42

jeniac42

Posted
Posted

As of two weeks from last Friday, I will be a laid off type for the second time in a year. My husband was also laid off in December.

As I've said before, I really want to work in restaurants.

It's probably not practicable (we own a house that'll be impossible to sell), but I've been wondering how one goes about moving to, say, France and working in a restaurant there. I'm equally curious about the UK (and will perhaps start a separate thread over there). I couldn't find anything using the search engine, but I know I've read about some eGulleteers who have done this.

So: how?

Jennie

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bux

Bux

Posted
Posted

A lot depends on where you're moving from. Citizens of the EU, or is it EC, can move about pretty freely. If you're coming from the US or most other places, it may not be so easy to find employment without the connections that will overcome visa restrictions. Fresh_a is an American working as a concierge in a top hotel. He may have some advice.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted

Hi Jen- nice idea, but you've got a few challenges:

#1: Do you have any European citizenships (or any European grandparents, to be able to get a passport)?

#2: Do you speak French?

#3: Are you patient? (the current job scene in France is very bad thanks to the current political situation)

These are all keys points affecting your possibilities here...

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bux

Bux

Posted
Posted
the current job scene in France is very bad

When unemployment figures are high, a government is likely to be a lot less eager to issue working visas for foreigners.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeniac42

jeniac42

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Answers:

1: Alas, no. I have European great-grandparents (Germany), though I think that's one too far removed.

2: Yes. My fluency has decreased greatly but I studied French for 7 years; when I was in Paris for a week it started to come back to me.

3: Sure, why not? This is all theoretical anyway; in real life I own a house that will be difficult to sell and a dog who'd have to go through quarantine, and also a husband who may or may not want to move to France (England, sure).

Jennie

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted

The one big problem that remains, is the immigration one... It may be possible to work illegally, but that's a little precarious... Without papers, it's pretty near impossible to work here.... Unless you worked for an American company that had establishments here in France (hotel business , for example) that, after a while, would be willing to transfer you here for a limited period...

Other than this, I can't think of any possibilities..

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted (edited)

Claude- As far as I know, any Americans with European grandparents (and the papers to prove it) are able to have citizenship... although I would suggest always leaving and entering the US with the American one.....

I have a double nationality thanks to my parents...

Edited by fresh_a (log)

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeniac42

jeniac42

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

I believe I can take my dog (I have an acquaintance who took hers with her some years ago, and I was reading the web page which basically just states pets need to go through quarantine).

Of course, I don't know that I'd actually do that to her.

Perhaps I should just wait until I've got some restaurant experience here, try to make some connections and whatnot and move then.

Jennie

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted

I don't want to rain on your party, but , connections or not, you cannot bypass immmigration regulations.....

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review

Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review

Posted
Posted
Claude- As far as I know, any Americans with European grandparents (and the papers to prove it) are able to have citizenship... although I would suggest always leaving and entering the US with the American one.....

I have a double nationality thanks to my parents...

Really. This is very interesting news, as my parents are from Germany and Austria. I looked at the websites of the German and Austrian Embassies once and there was no suggestion of this as a way to obtain citizenship. I'll have to dig harder, now.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted

It's worth checking out, I think... maybe I'm wrong..

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeniac42

jeniac42

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Of course there'd be no law-bypassing, but I thought at least if one had connections it might be easier to find an appropriate job opening in the first place. And if I've worked in a good restaurant here (I think someone mentioned this on my UK version of this thread) perhaps a position could be custom-created for me. It seems I've read about talented young chefs going to Europe to work, no?

Not that I'm implying I'm talented, of course.

Jennie

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bux

Bux

Posted
Posted
It seems I've read about talented young chefs going to Europe to work, no?

I've read of talented young chefs who are sent by their restaurants to do an unpaid stage in France. Often enough the restaurant or country club in the states pays the restaurant in France for that privilege. French born chefs with restaurants famous enough to make the newspapers in Paris who have kept their ties to France can often secure such a stage for young cooks loyal to them without having to pay. Of course some plucky young cooks will manage to get those plum payless jobs by sheer determination. You're not implying a French restaurant would be seeking out an American cook to hire for his talent are you? :biggrin:

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
jeniac42

jeniac42

Posted
  • Topic Starter
Posted

Oh, of course not.

And I suspect being female will also be to my detriment in this area. :wacko:

I was probably thinking of a stage, anyway. Unless I said I wanted to get paid for the work earlier in the thread, in which case I've just gone totally wacko.

Jennie

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fresh_a

fresh_a

Posted
Posted

The problem is that, in France, you don't have the RIGHT to work, without the releveant papers...

Anti-alcoholics are unfortunates in the grip of water, that terrible poison, so corrosive that out of all substances it has been chosen for washing and scouring, and a drop of water added to a clear liquid like Absinthe, muddles it." ALFRED JARRY

blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites
AdamLawrence

AdamLawrence

Posted
Posted
Claude- As far as I know, any Americans with European grandparents (and the papers to prove it) are able to have citizenship... although I would suggest always leaving and entering the US with the American one.....

I have a double nationality thanks to my parents...

Really. This is very interesting news, as my parents are from Germany and Austria. I looked at the websites of the German and Austrian Embassies once and there was no suggestion of this as a way to obtain citizenship. I'll have to dig harder, now.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

When you take American citizenship, I believe you have to disclaim any previous citizenships (a pal of mine is naturalising at the moment). Does this not work in reverse?

Adam

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review

Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review

Posted
Posted (edited)
Claude- As far as I know, any Americans with European grandparents (and the papers to prove it) are able to have citizenship... although I would suggest always leaving and entering the US with the American one.....

I have a double nationality thanks to my parents...

Really. This is very interesting news, as my parents are from Germany and Austria. I looked at the websites of the German and Austrian Embassies once and there was no suggestion of this as a way to obtain citizenship. I'll have to dig harder, now.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

When you take American citizenship, I believe you have to disclaim any previous citizenships (a pal of mine is naturalising at the moment). Does this not work in reverse?

Adam

Adam -- I believe that once was the case. However, if I recall correctly, there was a Supreme Court decision back in the 1960s or 1970s that held that American citizens can only lose their citizenship by specifically renouncing it, not by taking on citizenship of another country.

Best regards,

Claude Kolm

The Fine Wine Review

Edited by Claude Kolm/The Fine Wine Review (log)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Bux

Bux

Posted
Posted

I share Claude's opinion that it used to be illegal, but is no longer. I know quite a few people with dual French/US citizenship.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Busboy

Busboy

Posted
Posted

You don't mention if you want to be paid or if you have a way to survive without a decent salary.

It would be interesting to know if French restaurants, like U.S. establishments, find that their interest in immigration regs declines in tandem with salary demands. In other words, would the chef take you as a dishwasher similar low status job despite regulations (where French Chefs traditionally begin their climb) in return for negligable salary demands on your part.

Or, similarly, could you strike a deal with a chef where he pretends to be teaching officially and you are offically a student.

Just in a Huck Finn mood and thinking of running away to France myself...

I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
 Share
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...