Truly original signature dishes?

[Steve Plotnicki]

Over on the French board, we were discussing what makes a chef famous. I don't mean famous for the moment, I mean famous forever. So here is a list of signature dishes off the top of my head. Let's see what conclusions we might reach from who is on the list(s) and who has been left off. Off the top of my head;

Alain Senderins - Canard Apicius, Lobster au Vanille, Foie Gras steamed in Cabbage

Paul Bocuse - Truffle Soup

Joel Robuchon - Foie Gras with Lentil Cream, Caviar with Cauliflower

Cream, Mashed Potatoes

Wolfgang Puck - Smoked Salmon Pizza

Thomas Keller - Cauliflower Panna Cotta with Caviar, Smoked Salmon Cornets

Jean-Georges - Goat Cheese and Potato Salad, Molton Chocolate Cake

Georges Blanc - Bresse Chicken with Morels and Cream Sauce

Troisgros - Salmon in Sorrel Sauce

Norman Van Aiken - Bourbon French Toast with Foie Gras

Larry Forgione - Terrine of three American Fish with their Caviar

Alain Passard - Lobster with Yellow Wine, Egg with Maple Syrup, Lobster with Turnips, Caramelized Tomatoes

Jean-Pierre Vigato - Foie Gras in a Sweet & Sour Sauce

Bernard Pacaud - Lagoustine in Curry Sauce

Marc Menau - Cromiquis of Foie Gras

Gualtiero Marchesi - Open Ravioli with lobster and gold leaf

Rocco DiSpirito - Taylor Bay Scallops with Uni and Mustard Oil

Bernard Loisseau - Chicken Andre Dumaine

Nobu - Creamy Spicy Crab, Cod marinated in Miso and Roasted

Paul Minchelli - Salmon Unilateral

Fernand Point - Chicken cooked in a pig's bladder

I am sure there are loads more. Even more from the same chefs that I listed but that have slipped my mind. So list away. Plus I can't wait to tell the first person who lists a signature dish that isn't really a signature dish they're wrong!

[awbrig]

Great topic Steve,of course I'll add Charlie Trotter...who rarely ever repeats a dish exactly but has done this dish in many forms for a while cementing his fame... nonetheless unforgettable..check out the movie My Best Friends Wedding for a peek...

Peppered Lamb Loin w Polenta Ratatouille and Bell Pepper Infused Lamb Stock Reduction

[ajay]

Steve P.,

A minor point: Dispirito's scallop and uni dish with mustard oil also contain tomato water (at least the version that i have taken in did) and the tomato water, is what really made the dish for me.

Though I have never sampled it, I always thought Bocuse is famous for the chicken cooked inside the pig's bladder.

Again, I have not sampled it, but G Boyer's whole black truffle qualifies in my mind, but maybe the use of whole truffles was ubiquitous by the time he came up with his version that it does not qualify for the purposes of this discussion.

Similarly, I have very much enjoyed C. Delourvrier's [(sp) of Lespinasse] braised pork belly. Probably not a dish or even a chef that will be famous for the ages but I think it's still a signature dish and will be found regularly through the fall and winter. But this dish probably doesn't belong on this board; I just enjoy it immensley

D. Boloud's potato crusted 'paupite' of sea bas in barolo (now syrah, apparently).

[Fat Guy]

A minor point: Dispirito's scallop and uni dish with mustard oil also contain tomato water (at least the version that i have taken in did) and the tomato water, is what really made the dish for me.

Yes it does. Also mirin, seaweed, mustard seed, and cayenne.

[robert brown]

Steve, I mentioned in my thread about the Old Dining vs. the New Dining that the former created many more classic dishes than the latter. I think one needs to segregate a chef's signature dish from one that permeates the repetoires of many other chefs; i.e. classic dishes. Examples from your list would be the Troisgros' salmon, Bocuse's Soup aux truffes VDG, (and what about his Loup en Croute, perhaps even more influential and the source of Daniel's dish, I believe), the three dishes of Senderens, Puck's pizza (and what about Rosenzweig's Lobster Club, speaking of casual). I will add to this tomorrow or Friday. Good work. Good Night

[southern girl]

Nobu..."new style sashimi"

[Fat Guy]

I think one needs to segregate a chef's signature dish from one that permeates the repetoires of many other chefs

Perhaps the categories are 1) signature dish; 2) famous signature dish; 3) widely emulated famous signature dish.

We should also distinguish between a signature and an original. Jean-Georges Vongerichten's molten-center chocolate cake is a signature, it is a famous signature, and it is a widely emulated famous signature, but didn't a number of other chefs do it before he did, and isn't it just a tweaked version of desserts that have been around for decades? I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a chef in France serving that dessert who would say the idea came from Vongerichten. Some would credit Blanc, and I think there might have been a predecessor dessert to his version. Take for example Ducasse's baba au rhum. Nobody would say he invented the baba; in fact that would be exactly the opposite of the point because it's supposed to be a familiar and evocative dish. But he took it and tweaked it with that crazy cream and the choice of top-quality rums poured on tableside. Now I'm seeing rum baba desserts at other restaurants in New York and I'm sure they were inspired by Ducasse but I'm not sure how much credit I'd give him. Also there's a question of how to categorize the achievements of a pastry kitchen.

Much of the innovation implied in a list of signatures is really just incremental stuff. The more we know the more this is evident, especially among the French chefs who are more conservative by nature. Robuchon's mashed potatoes are the end of the line in a progression of mashed potatoes. He didn't invent the idea of mashed potatoes, of course -- he just enriched the recipe. As mlpc so accurately noted over on the Arpege thread, Robuchon's mashed potatoes would best be characterized as a technique innovation rather than the invention of a dish. You'll actually find more pure, leap-of-faith innovation among the non-French chefs, but I'm not sure that means anything because the whole style of cooking is different.

When it comes to emulation it should be asked what is being emulated: Is it the dish or a concept? For example as far as I know Senderens was indeed the first to do this lobster-with-vanilla thing. But it's not as though you see lobster with vanilla very often at restaurants. What you see, though, is vanilla being used as a savory ingredient particularly in fish dishes. That's what Senderens really contributed, I think: He blew the lid off the whole vanilla-is-a-dessert-thing way of thinking. Or maybe those aren't the facts, but conceptually that's the way I'd look at this sort of issue. Like with Nobu and the miso marinated cod (black cod, actually, which is sablefish), it's really the technique that he popularized (I say popularized because I think it's an ages-old Japanese technique) -- you can do it with other fish, like our old friend the Chilean sea bass, and it's still that dish.

[cabrales]

Pic's (originally Jacques Pic's) bass with caviar

La Tour d'Argent's duck (with the blood sauce and made using the duck press)

La Mere Brazier's chicken in half-mourning

Less so: Bernard Loiseau's frog legs with parsley and garlic

Less so: Divellec's lobster made from the lobster press

Less so: Bocuse's bass in a pastry crust

[Steve Plotnicki]

Well okay let's set up the rules here. As I just said in the Arpege thread on the France board, a signature dish just means that the chef is famous for it. His inventing the dish isn't a necessary component. What is important is that he (or she) made the dish famous and that diners traveled to his restaurant to eat it. Like when I went to Troisgros for the first time two years ago. There was no way I was going to leave without eating the salmon. In fact the salmon was in large part the reason I went in the first place. So it doesn't make a difference that there might have been a predecessor to the Jean-George's molton cake, the issue is that when someone would mention J-G, everyone immediately thought of the cake. Same with Nobu and the roast cod.

I think that the issue of did the dish influence other chefs and to what extent goes to the extent of the fame and nothing else. That every restaurant under the sun offers a molton chocolate cake is a testament to how important an invention the cake was in the first place.

Ajay - The name of the dish I believe is Taylor Bay Scallops with Uni and Mustard Oil. It contains tomato water, but it is not listed in the name of the dish.

Cabrales - Thank you for that small but excellent list

Robert - Yes the lobster club is a classic

Here are a few others;

Daniel Boulud - Potato encrusted bass, DB Burger

Tom Valenti - Braised lamb shank

[Gavin Jones]

3 possibles

Colonel Sanders - Kentucky Fried Chicken

Escoffier - Peach Melba or the Guide Culinaire

Nico Ladenis - Foie gras served with Brioche & Caramelised Orange

[Scottf]

How about Pierre Koffmann's Pig's Trotter.

[cabrales]

Less so: Tetsuya's dish with ocean trout, which I have not sampled. At least one version appears to be "Confit of Ocean Trout with Fennel Salad". My sibling tasted some type of ocean trout dish, and indicated that the restaurant at least did perceive it as a signature dish. I believe Steingarten's article from earlier this year, addressing the sourcing of ingredients, might have also mentioned trout in connection with Tetsuya.

http://www.winespectator.com/Wine/Main/Fea...1197,96,00.html

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/store...3522020-5129605 (see book description)

[spqr]

What would signature dish-less chefs do without the crutch of foies gras?

[Fat Guy]

a signature dish just means that the chef is famous for it. His inventing the dish isn't a necessary component. What is important is that he (or she) made the dish famous and that diners traveled to his restaurant to eat it.

But shouldn't we give credit where credit is due? I can understand your view of signature dishes in instances where a chef did some meaningful tweaking to a preexisting dish to create the signature, but if it's a flat out copy or something quite generic that has simply become popular because a particular chef put it on a menu then it feels wrong to credit it to that chef. I wouldn't call it fraudulent, because in cuisine the standards for what would be plagiarism in literature don't work the same way as with the written word, but I would call it suspicious and probably just a result of the audience and the media not knowing any better. I mean, you can go to Ducasse right now and get a chicken cooked in a pig's bladder. If some idiot writers at Gourmet and Saveur and various newspaper food sections all went to a dinner at Ducasse where this was served, and they were all too dim-witted to know about the predecessor dish, they might go out there and write about Ducasse's brilliant creation and he might become somewhat famous for it and people would be showing up at Ducasse's restaurant for years, clippings in hand, asking for this "signature" dish. It gets back to the baba au rhum example. Sure it's a Ducasse signature, but how is that a meaningful statement about Ducasse or the dish?

[Gavin Jones]

a signature dish just means that the chef is famous for it. His inventing the dish isn't a necessary component. What is important is that he (or she) made the dish famous and that diners traveled to his restaurant to eat it.

Thus Colonel Sanders qualifies.

[CathyL]

Tetsuya did the ocean trout at the Beard Awards tasting 2 years ago, which suggests he considers it a signature.

I'd add Jean-Georges' scallops and cauliflower with caper/raisin emulsion. And George Germon's grilled pizza.

[Jon Tseng]

Albert Roux: Omelette Rothschild, Souffle Suississe

Raymond Blanc: Courgette flowers stuffed with crab mousse

Peter Gordon: Scallops with chilli relish and creme fraiche

Paul Bocuse? Fernand Point? Pere Bise? Marjolaine cake (can't remember who)

Alain Senderens: Langoustines wrapped in vermicelli

Thomas Keller: Oysters and tapioca

Jean-Christophe Novelli: Pigs trotter

MPW: Scallops and squid ink

Pierre Koffman: Salmon confit

Richard Neat: Snails in chicken mousse dusted with powdered ?morels

Nico Ladenis: Cep risotto

Heston Blumenthal: Lasagne of langoustinne, pigs trotter & truffle, crab biscuit

Martin Blunos: Duck egg with caviar & a shot of vodka

Can an establishment have a signature dish (does seafood boudin count as Taillevant's or Vrinat's?). If so I nominate the roast pork puffs at Royal China in London. And the chorizo and rocket rolls at Borough Market?

Will undoubtedly think of more

J

incidentally note this a) seems to be a french or french-influenced thing and b) a haute cuisine thing (though the chorizo rolls may be an exception

[Gavin Jones]

La mere Poulard - Omelette

[Jon Tseng]

Plus some more london suggestions

Ivy (again the establishment not a chef): salmon fish cake, berries with white chocolate sauce

River Cafe: Chocolate Nemesis

Fergus Henderson: Bone Marrow Salad (how could I have forgotten?)

Jean-Christophe Novelli: Sea Bass & Chorizo

J

[Fat Guy]

Using the Plotnicki definition, these would be my top 5 Ducasse picks:

- Cannelloni with parmesan, cèpe marmalade, roasting jus, and white truffle

- Blond pigeon breast with melting vegetables

- Baba au rhum

- Sea urchin royale

- Ragout of cockscombs and chicken kidney

[Gavin Jones]

So both Novelli & Koffmann sign themselves with the paw of a pig.

[GordonCooks]

I don’t know if famous forever applies, but when a dish/chef/restaurant is mentioned – these are the names that come to mind

Thomas Keller’s – Oysters and Pearls

Grant Achatz – Liquid Truffle Ravioli

Paul Prudomme – Blackened Catfish

Todd English – Prosciutto/Fig Jam pizza

General Tso – his Chicken

Resto Dishes

21 Club – Steak tartare

Peter Luger’s - Porterhouse

[Suzanne F]

Isn't it a bit too soon to consider the dbBurger a "signature" dish? I think emulation is required before a dish can be so labelled.

[Wilfrid]

Is there a chef whose name is at all "known" who does not have a signature dish?

Or are we just seeing how many we can remember?

Marco Pierre White: scallops black tie. There's one.

[Jinmyo]

Suzanne, I remember from an article in either the LA Times or NY Times on burgers that the db burger is being emulated quite extensively across the U.S.