Cheese and Vegetarianism

[Margaret Pilgrim]

On 7/4/2022 at 12:49 AM, cdh said:

The most jarringly weird sandwich I ever had was in the UK-  Very buttered bread with cheddar and branston pickle. 

I might love that!   During the vegetarian period I spent in the UK, ploughman's lunch was my pub order.     You see, you need the butter to cut the strong cheddar and pickle to brighten both.    Yes, I could do that!

[liuzhou]

1 minute ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

I might love that!   During the vegetarian period I spent in the UK, ploughman's lunch was my pub order.     You see, you need the butter to cut the strong cheddar and pickle to brighten both.    Yes, I could do that!

 

Ploughman's lunches are rarely vegetarian! Thank heavens! Cheddar cheese is rarely vegetarian. Ploughmen certainly aren't!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

1 minute ago, liuzhou said:

 

Ploughman's lunches are rarely vegetarian! Thank heavens! Cheddar cheese is rarely vegetarian. Ploughmen certainly aren't!

Rough bread, strong Cheddar and a pickle that Americans would more likely akin to chutney all fall within the ordinary lacto-ova veg regime.   But, certainly  they are not vegan.

[liuzhou]

4 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Rough bread, strong Cheddar and a pickle that Americans would more likely akin to chutney all fall within the ordinary lacto-ova veg regime.   But, certainly  they are not vegan.

 

Nor is cheddar usually vegetarian. It uses animal rennet. The scrapings of animals' stomachs. Neither vegetarian or vegan!

[gfweb]

6 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Nor is cheddar usually vegetarian. It uses animal rennet. The scrapings of animals' stomachs. Neither vegetarian or vegan!

And there's milk too

[liuzhou]

Just now, gfweb said:

And there's milk too

 

Well, milk is vegetarian, but not vegan.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Technically correct.    Cheese is usually allowed a lacto-ovo veg.     I was neither, just avoided meat.    It was strictly how I felt like eating and wasn't the least philosophical.

[liuzhou]

10 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Technically correct.    Cheese is usually allowed a lacto-ovo veg.    

 

Technically correct just means correct.

 

None of the vegetarians I know (sad people) eat cheese unless they know it is truly vegetarian. 99% isn't. 

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Not so here.   In the '60s Green's restaurant, one of the nation's first vegetarian restaurants features cheese heavily in its menus.   

Vegetarianism is a continuum.  Like politics and religion, each person finds a place for himself on the arc.

[liuzhou]

Well, you can re-define 'vegetarian' any way you choose, but for most it means abstaining from foods which involve products from dead animals. Most cheese does involve such products. Not that I mind!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

29 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

 

Technically correct just means correct.

 

None of the vegetarians I know (sad people) eat cheese unless they know it is truly vegetarian. 99% isn't. 

 

6 minutes ago, liuzhou said:

Well, you can re-define 'vegetarian' any way you choose, but for most it means abstaining from foods which involve products from dead animals. Most cheese does involve such products. Not that I mind!

 

"None that I know" and "most" does not equal all.   

 

Edited July 4, 2022 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[liuzhou]

4 minutes ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

 

 

"None that I know" and "most" does not equal all.   

 

 

Well, I'll file that with the self-proclaimed vegetarians who eat fish or even chicken.

 

Vegetarians or vegetables?

[blue_dolphin]

On 7/3/2022 at 5:00 PM, liuzhou said:

Well, you can re-define 'vegetarian' any way you choose, but for most it means abstaining from foods which involve products from dead animals. Most cheese does involve such products. Not that I mind!

“Most cheese” may depend on where you live. Artisanal European cheeses with DOP or similar designations are generally still produced with animal rennet but the majority of cheeses produced in the US and UK now use a microbial rennet or laboratory-produced chymosin. I know nothing of Chinese cheeses. 
I read (here, though I have not verified elsewhere)that the switch to laboratory-produced enzymes was in part due to the decline in veal consumption which drove up the price of calf rennet, the most common type, and provided more impetus to develop non-animal options. I was aware of this but didn’t realize how widespread their use had become. 
Here's a link to a list of vegetarian-friendly cheeses.  Lots to choose from though none from China!

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by blue_dolphin
To add chymosin (log)

[Susanwusan]

When animal rennet is used to make cheese, is it only used to curdle the milk and then gets washed off or does it "enter" the milk itself and remain in the curd.  Is it not vegetarian because it has been used to produce the cheese or because the cheese contains the animal rennet?

[liuzhou]

On 7/6/2022 at 1:39 AM, blue_dolphin said:

Lots to choose from though none from China!

 

Now that this topic has been revived can I just say that I wasn't talking about Chinese cheese. There is very little of that and the little there is doesn't use rennet.

 

2 hours ago, Susanwusan said:

When animal rennet is used to make cheese, is it only used to curdle the milk and then gets washed off or does it "enter" the milk itself and remain in the curd.  Is it not vegetarian because it has been used to produce the cheese or because the cheese contains the animal rennet?

 

i'm told it remains by my sister who makes cheese in England.

 

 

[Anchobrie]

22 hours ago, Susanwusan said:

When animal rennet is used to make cheese, is it only used to curdle the milk and then gets washed off or does it "enter" the milk itself and remain in the curd.  Is it not vegetarian because it has been used to produce the cheese or because the cheese contains the animal rennet?

 

Rennet essentially remains in the whey so it is present in very limited amounts in the final cheese, but it is enough to generate concerns for those who don't want to enjoy dead animal products in their food. That's why it makes rennet-made cheese "not vegan" or "not vegetarian", but it is ok for "flexi..." or whatever terminology is correct to define those who does not negate all animal based products the right to be digested inside their stomachs (I often got lost, in case of doubt and need, I would directly ask regarding the product as much specific as I can )

[Mjx]

The vegetarians I know eat cheese (and wear leather, but not fur). I suspect that this is because originally, they were unaware of the rennet element, and if and when they did find out about it, they figured they may as well go on eating cheese. This is just my hypothesis: I've never asked! The vegetarians I know best (including everyone else in my immediate family, lifetime vegetarians) are neither intrusive nor political about it, so I've seen no point in bothering them about this.