Chocolate Tempering: Tips and Troubleshooting

[dannysdesserts]

5 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Could you add to find a way to  check the accuracy of your thermometer?

I did a test with boiling water as shown here.  I should have registered 210.2 and I was off by 1 degree.  I am going to purchase an additional quick read thermometer.  

 

I've done the tempering and now the items are cooling.  I should know in about 20 minutes if the regular fridge is successful.  The wine fridge takes a bit longer.  Will report back soon.

[dannysdesserts]

After 40 minutes in the regular fridge the peices look ready.  The molds are clear so I looked at the bottoms and most of them had "pulled away" from the mold.  A few of them had a dark spot in the middle.  I un-molded them.  They released from the molds and I placed them in a 76F room with a fan blowing across them.  40 minutes later they still looked great but were completely soft!  The wine fridge batch hasn't cooled long enough yet.

 

Any thoughts on why the regular fridge items didn't stay in temper?  I'm starting to wonder about this chocolate...

[pastrygirl]

You know, Danny, chocolate is tricky stuff.  And it simply doesn't do well in warm temperatures.  At 76 F, chocolate should still be solid but may start to get a little soft or glossy.  It would be better to work with and store your chocolate someplace cooler if there is any way possible.

 

Can I ask where you are located?  If you are in the tropics and it's never going to cool off, you might be better off making really great brownies or chocolate cake instead of chocolate bars or decorations that will melt. 

 

By all means, keep practicing and working to understand crystallization.  You seem very focused on temperature which is important, but not as important as proper crystallization.  I suggest sticking with the seed method and always test your temper.  

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, dannysdesserts said:

 They released from the molds and I placed them in a 76F room with a fan blowing across them.  40 minutes later they still looked great but were completely soft!

 

Any thoughts on why the regular fridge items didn't stay in temper?  I'm starting to wonder about this chocolate...

If you saw what I wrote about my July 4 experience, you have duplicated that in your kitchen.  It isn't a question about whether the chocolate is still in temper.  It can have all the Type V crystals in the world, but it can't cope with a warm environment.  My guess is the best you can do is to take them out of the regular fridge in the coolest part of the day, unmold them, seal them as close to airtight as you can get, then rush them into the wine fridge, and leave them there--until it's time to eat them!

[Kerry Beal]

Completely agree - set the wine fridge to about 17º C (62-63 F) and use that after you take them out of the fridge. It's above the dew point so long term storage in there won't cause condensation.

 

 

[dannysdesserts]

3 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

Can I ask where you are located?  If you are in the tropics and it's never going to cool off, you might be better off making really great brownies or chocolate cake instead of chocolate bars or decorations that will melt. 

Pastrygirl - I'm located in Southern California but with the summer heat continuing plus my "regular" baking, the kitchen stays quite warm.  It looks like I've got a plan going forward.

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

If you saw what I wrote about my July 4 experience, you have duplicated that in your kitchen.  It isn't a question about whether the chocolate is still in temper.  It can have all the Type V crystals in the world, but it can't cope with a warm environment.  My guess is the best you can do is to take them out of the regular fridge in the coolest part of the day, unmold them, seal them as close to airtight as you can get, then rush them into the wine fridge, and leave them there--until it's time to eat them!

Jim - yes, I did see the 4th of July post and you're correct.  I'm liking the idea of unmolding and then storing in the wine fridge.

 

55 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Completely agree - set the wine fridge to about 17º C (62-63 F) and use that after you take them out of the fridge. It's above the dew point so long term storage in there won't cause condensation.

 

 

Kerry - also the wine fridge doesn't have a compressor so it does not introduce added humidity that a compressor cooled fridge will.

[dannysdesserts]

OK, SUCCESS!

First off, a huge thank you to everyone who contributed.  Pastrygirl, JimD and Kerry - you all were so helpful.  I'll recap everything here.  Maybe it will help someone else in the future.

 

Issue: trying to temper chocolate when the kitchen temperature is quite warm, 76 or more F.

 

Original Steps: I used the seeding method.  I melted 300g of chocolate "chips" over a double-boiler until the melted mass reached a temperature of 125F.  I then put in 100g more of "chips" into the melted chocolate and stirred until the chips melted and the mass cooled to about 84F.  I then placed the bowl back over the double-boiler and raised the temperature to 89.7 or 90F.  I poured the chocolate into molds and cooled it in my wine fridge set at 60F.

 

Errors: 1: the manufacturer of the chocolate suggests to heat the chocolate to a maximum of 115F.  So, I was overheating per my manufacturer.  2: Kerry suggested using the wild crystallization method rather than the seed method.  3: I was not utilizing a regular fridge to cool the chocolates.  4: I was not letting the chocolate set at room temperature before placing it into the fridge (wine or regular).

 

Successful Method:  I heated 300g of chocolate "chips" to a maximum of 113F.  I then took the bowl off the heat, stir, stir, stir until the mass cooled.  It wouldn't go below 84F but I needed 80.6F.  I placed the bowl on top of a silicone reusable ice pack.  This helped to cool down to 80.6F.  I then placed the bowl back onto the hot water and stir, stir, stir until the temperature reached 88.5F.  Took it off the heat and molded it into 3 molds.  They stayed on the counter top in a 76F room until the chocolate wasn't shiny and the edges started to look set.  This was not too long (I didn't time this part).  Then, one mold stayed on the counter top in 76F room with a fan blowing on it.  One went into the "regular" fridge for 40 minutes and one went into the wine fridge for 2 hours (at 60F).  The regular fridge chocolates setup in 40 minutes, the wine fridge chocolates setup in 2 hours and the counter top chocolates were placed into the regular fridge because they didn't set.  Those chocolates stayed in the fridge for 3 hours.  Three hours later, all chocolates seemed perfect (even the counter top 3 hour in the regular fridge ones!).  All chocolates are now chilling in the wine fridge.  Time to pop open some bubbly!!

 

Thanks again everyone!

[Kerry Beal]

If your chocolate spends too long in the fridge at too low a temperature - (even in the wine cooler which doesn't have a compressor) - when you remove it from the cool out into the room - then condensation will form on the surface of the chocolate (dew) - the sugar in the chocolate will move out into the water, then as the water evaporates you will be left with crystalline sugar on the surface of your chocolate. This is sugar bloom. 

 

Don't be surprised if the chocolates you left in the regular fridge for 3 hours develop sugar bloom.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Kerry Beal (log)

[dannysdesserts]

I've been away for a few days.  So Kerry, is there some solution to that issue?

[keychris]

Don't leave it in the fridge too long

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, dannysdesserts said:

I've been away for a few days.  So Kerry, is there some solution to that issue?

If you mean is there anything you can do to fix it now that there is sugar bloom on the surface? I'd suggest melting it in hot milk and making hot chocolate out of it. 

[Jim D.]

I have had situations where I had to hold chocolates for customers for a long enough period of time that they (the chocolates, not the customers) would have deteriorated and have kept them in the refrigerator without an issue.  Some luck may have been involved, but I sealed the chocolates (in their individual boxes) in plastic bags.  I used a vacuum sealer but without any vacuum (because of what it does to the chocolates--not a pretty sight).  When I take them out of the fridge, I leave them still sealed for some hours before opening the bag.  So if you have access to a (vacuum) sealer, you could try that.  At the moment I have some sealed in bags in the fridge, waiting to be transferred tomorrow to my new chocolate freezer.  I will reverse the acclimating process when I take them out and hope for the best.

[dannysdesserts]

Sounds reasonable.  I'll give that a try!

[pastrygirl]

You're welcome!  Practice, practice - the first hundred times are the hardest

[dannysdesserts]

I did another batch yesterday WITHOUT implementing the airtight suggestions.  Can we confirm that this is sugar bloom?  I am about to melt this down, temper it and then do the airtight suggestion.  I think it is cool enough now so I can leave a mold on the countertop to set rather than in the fridge (wine or regular).

 

[Kerry Beal]

I can't confirm what type of bloom without touching it - if it feels gritty it's sugar bloom - if it feels greasy it's fat bloom. If it's sugar bloom I'd make the hot chocolate and not temper it again. The gritty won't go away. The sugar in conched chocolate is in an amorphous form not in a crystalline form. 

 

The placing the molds in the fridge (for 10 to 15 minutes not 3 hours) to carry off the latent heat of crystallization is not to compensate for the warm ambient temperature - you do it regardless of the room temperature. 

[dannysdesserts]

OK, so here's my plan.  Ditch that last batch.  Start with brand new batch of chocolate, temper as above, mold, let edges set at room temperature then cool in "regular" fridge for 40 minutes.  Unmold, seal airtight and store in wine fridge set at 62-63F.  

 

Solid plan?

 

I'll report back in a few days.

[Kerry Beal]

Nope - 10 to 15 minutes in regular fridge. Just long enough to carry off the latent heat.  

[dannysdesserts]

9 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

Nope - 10 to 15 minutes in regular fridge. Just long enough to carry off the latent heat.  

Thanks Kerry!  NEW plan.  Brand new batch of chocolate, temper as above, mold and cool in "regular" fridge for 10-15 minutes.  Unmold, seal airtight and store in wine fridge set at 62-63F.

[Tri2Cook]

6 hours ago, dannysdesserts said:

Thanks Kerry!  NEW plan.  Brand new batch of chocolate, temper as above, mold and cool in "regular" fridge for 10-15 minutes.  Unmold, seal airtight and store in wine fridge set at 62-63F.

Don't be offended by what I'm about to say, just trying to be encouraging here. The first plan I would make is forgetting all about the manufacturer's site and anything it said. The second plan I would make is to follow the suggestions you received here exactly as suggested without trying to freestyle any of it or incorporate things from the above mentioned, and hopefully discarded for now, manufacturer's website (or any other sources for now). The people who are trying to help you here are the very same people who have been incredibly helpful to me when I started, and as I continue on, the chocolate learning journey. I didn't try to adapt or change anything. I just did what they said and, though I may pay dearly for saying this out loud during my next chocolate session, I haven't had to toss or repurpose a single batch. The idea is to get the problems you're having solved. Once that's out of the way, experiment with changes all you want. You'll have a reliable baseline you'll be working from which makes tracking down any problems related to the experimenting much easier.

[pastrygirl]

24 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

 The first plan I would make is forgetting all about the manufacturer's site and anything it said.

 

Yeah, the Valrhona bags say to melt it for at least 12 hours or something totally impractical.  As for the melting temp, by all means be careful and don't leave your bain marie on a gas burner with flames shooting up the sides or put a bowl of chocolate in the microwave for 5 minutes on high.  But going a little bit above 120F isn't going to damage the cocoa butter or make it not temper, it just means you'll have to add more seed or wait longer for it to cool down.  I've had dark chocolate accidentally get up to 140 or 150 while melting and it still tempered fine once it cooled down.  (I have a 6kg melter but more often than not I use a bowl over simmering water because it's faster and more convenient for small batches.)

 

Chocolate can be super frustrating, and will frequently remind you that you're not in charge, the chocolate is tempered when it's tempered, and you can't really fake it.  But it does get easier with practice, and when it turns out nicely it's so satisfying!

 

 

[dannysdesserts]

1 hour ago, Tri2Cook said:

Don't be offended by what I'm about to say, just trying to be encouraging here. The first plan I would make is forgetting all about the manufacturer's site and anything it said. The second plan I would make is to follow the suggestions you received here exactly as suggested without trying to freestyle any of it or incorporate things from the above mentioned, and hopefully discarded for now, manufacturer's website (or any other sources for now). The people who are trying to help you here are the very same people who have been incredibly helpful to me when I started, and as I continue on, the chocolate learning journey. I didn't try to adapt or change anything. I just did what they said and, though I may pay dearly for saying this out loud during my next chocolate session, I haven't had to toss or repurpose a single batch. The idea is to get the problems you're having solved. Once that's out of the way, experiment with changes all you want. You'll have a reliable baseline you'll be working from which makes tracking down any problems related to the experimenting much easier.

 

Tri2Cook - Thanks for your advice!  I went back an reread this entire thread to make sure I'm not missing anything from the experts.  After reading I feel like I am doing just what the experts suggested the second plan.  

 

I am using wild crystallization method that Kerry described by heating the chocolate.  She never gave me a maximum temperature but I am using the manufacturer's suggested max of 113F. (Are you telling me that this is too low?) I do this low and slow on the double-boiler.  I then cool it down to 80.6 and rewarm it to 89.  I'm making sure I stir, stir, stir during the cool and rewarm processes.  I leave the molds on the counter until the edges set and lose their sheen and then place them in the fridge for 15 minutes (although in the thread Kerry said both 15 and 30 minutes depending on if I'm doing shells or solids.  I'm doing solids.).  I then place them in airtight container and store in wine fridge set at 62-63F.  

 

I greatly appreciate the advice from these experts and I thought I was following it.  If I'm not, can you help me understand what I'm misunderstanding?  Thanks!

[Tri2Cook]

Nope, nothing to add. If your plan is to give what they suggested a try, that's all I was suggesting. Best of luck.

[Kerry Beal]

45 minutes ago, dannysdesserts said:

 

Tri2Cook - Thanks for your advice!  I went back an reread this entire thread to make sure I'm not missing anything from the experts.  After reading I feel like I am doing just what the experts suggested the second plan.  

 

I am using wild crystallization method that Kerry described by heating the chocolate.  She never gave me a maximum temperature but I am using the manufacturer's suggested max of 113F. (Are you telling me that this is too low?) I do this low and slow on the double-boiler.  I then cool it down to 80.6 and rewarm it to 89.  I'm making sure I stir, stir, stir during the cool and rewarm processes.  I leave the molds on the counter until the edges set and lose their sheen and then place them in the fridge for 15 minutes (although in the thread Kerry said both 15 and 30 minutes depending on if I'm doing shells or solids.  I'm doing solids.).  I then place them in airtight container and store in wine fridge set at 62-63F.  

 

I greatly appreciate the advice from these experts and I thought I was following it.  If I'm not, can you help me understand what I'm misunderstanding?  Thanks!

I know we talked 30 minutes for solids - but that was thick solids - the ones you are using appear to be pretty thin solids (unless I'm totally missing the scale of the picture) - so I stand by my 10 -15 minutes. 

[dannysdesserts]

Kerry - these solids are approximately 1/4 inch thick.  I assume 15 minutes.  Thick would be for something like a bar?