Is most American/European/Indian/Middle Eastern food really African/East Asian?

[shawarma_prince]

Are samosas, naans and pilaf/plof/polo also Persian in origin? or Turkish?

 

I also contacted a prominent Iranian food expert who said joshpara was invented by Persian in preislamic times and Turkish/Armenian manti (and even Nepali momo) are derivative of that. Is that plausible? Obviously the momo part is not but the manti part?

Edited June 15, 2020 by shawarma_prince (log)

[shawarma_prince]

Anybody else have any insight on joshpara and its ultimate origin?

[Duvel]

18 hours ago, shawarma_prince said:

Anybody else have any insight on joshpara and its ultimate origin?

Most likely it originated here ...

[Hassouni]

On 6/15/2020 at 4:28 PM, shawarma_prince said:

Are samosas, naans and pilaf/plof/polo also Persian in origin? or Turkish?

 

I also contacted a prominent Iranian food expert who said joshpara was invented by Persian in preislamic times and Turkish/Armenian manti (and even Nepali momo) are derivative of that. Is that plausible? Obviously the momo part is not but the manti part?

 

 

Samosa as are from sambousak which are of Persian origin and made it east to the Arab World and Horn of Africa, as well as Central asia, where they're known as "Samsa".

 

Naan simply means "bread" in Persian. The Tandoor was around in Mesopotamia since Akkadian times with the name "tinuru", (modern Arabic "tannour") and similarly spread out. But in Persian naan/noon is literally any bread

 

Pilav/Polow is also a Persian word.

 

Mantı is Turkic in origin, spread by the Mongols as far east as Korea (mandu) and as far west as...I dunno, Eastern Europe, where they call it pelmeni?

 

[shawarma_prince]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:28 AM, Hassouni said:

 

Samosa as are from sambousak which are of Persian origin and made it east to the Arab World and Horn of Africa, as well as Central asia, where they're known as "Samsa".

 

Naan simply means "bread" in Persian. The Tandoor was around in Mesopotamia since Akkadian times with the name "tinuru", (modern Arabic "tannour") and similarly spread out. But in Persian naan/noon is literally any bread

 

Pilav/Polow is also a Persian word.

 

Mantı is Turkic in origin, spread by the Mongols as far east as Korea (mandu) and as far west as...I dunno, Eastern Europe, where they call it pelmeni?

 

 

As far west As Central Europe (pierogi) or Western Europe (knodel?) tbh then.

 

[Duvel]

1 hour ago, shawarma_prince said:

 

As far west As Central Europe (pierogi) or Western Europe (knodel?) tbh then.

 

Please check the definition of Knödel ...

[shawarma_prince]

On 6/21/2020 at 1:59 PM, Duvel said:

Please check the definition of Knödel ...

Okay you're right. Its diffferent my bad.

[shawarma_prince]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:28 PM, shawarma_prince said:

Are samosas, naans and pilaf/plof/polo also Persian in origin? or Turkish?

 

I also contacted a prominent Iranian food expert who said joshpara was invented by Persian in preislamic times and Turkish/Armenian manti (and even Nepali momo) are derivative of that. Is that plausible? Obviously the momo part is not but the manti part?

 

 

https://books.google.de/books?id=RL6LAwAAQBAJ&lpg=PA434&dq=joshpara&pg=PA434#v=onepage&q=joshpara&f=false

 

It seems like the oxford companion to food agrees with a persian origin for joshpara(not sure if it had central asian or chinese influence). But manti is def turkish. so not sure how something can be invented by two cultures in the same region of the world and be considered seperate.

 

I also read that steak tartare/hamburgers are from Mongol warriors and ice cream and bacon is also CHinese.

Edited June 23, 2020 by shawarma_prince (log)

[JoNorvelleWalker]

Ice cream and bacon is from David Lebovitz.

 

https://www.davidlebovitz.com/candied-bacon-i-1/

 

[shawarma_prince]

And I think someone said the Portugese stole churros from China.

[liuzhou]

You "think" and "someone said" is strong evidence of absolutely nothing.

[Duvel]

I overheard someone mentioning that riding a dead horse is Mongolian in origin, but now a global phenomenon ...

[gfweb]

31 minutes ago, Duvel said:

I overheard someone mentioning that riding a dead horse is Mongolian in origin, but now a global phenomenon ...

Interesting expression. LOL

 

In English its typically "flogging a dead horse":

[shawarma_prince]

1 hour ago, liuzhou said:

You "think" and "someone said" is strong evidence of absolutely nothing.

It was on wikipedia about churros.

[cdh]

3 minutes ago, shawarma_prince said:

It was on wikipedia about churros.

That's not helpful.  Anybody can edit Wikipedia to say anything.  How long has that assertion been there, and what evidence is cited to back it up?  The editors stick [citation needed] in where they see a need... but are not omniscient.  

[Duvel]

1 hour ago, gfweb said:

Interesting expression. LOL

 

In English its typically "flogging a dead horse":

In German its „riding a dead horse“. Makes one wonder how the original expression in ancient Mongolian was 😜 ...

[Steve R.]

Pretty sure that the original was from Brooklyn and had something to do with swimming with the fishes.

[Duvel]

23 minutes ago, Steve R. said:

Pretty sure that the original was from Brooklyn and had something to do with swimming with the fishes.

But only from your limited perspective 😜

 

“Swimming with the fishes” was a phrase originally coined in Mesopotamia (at around the same time that Schweinshaxe was invented) and referred to the annual salmon* migration up the Euphrates ...

 

*Salmon was native to the Fertile Crescent, until the Mongols came and took them to Norway. 

[shawarma_prince]

3 hours ago, cdh said:

That's not helpful.  Anybody can edit Wikipedia to say anything.  How long has that assertion been there, and what evidence is cited to back it up?  The editors stick [citation needed] in where they see a need... but are not omniscient.  

That makes sense. Unfortunatley that's the only source most of the time. For example I still can't figure out if file dough is Turkish or greek and wikipedia is no help.