New Toy: Breville/Polyscience Control Freak!

[dtremit]

1 hour ago, horseflesh said:

I love the dedicated time knob on the CF. I hope the timer isn't buried on the home version. There might be enough room on the touchscreen for a dedicated timer. 🤞

 

There's definitely both on the screen — this is from the video:

 

 

Guessing you can tap to switch between them and the dial controls whatever is active? 

[tikidoc]

The Home version is out - anyone else bite at the $300 off? Mine arrives Tuesday.

[horseflesh]

Since I have the original I decided to wait. There will be another sale. I am interested in getting another CF for sure, using a legacy burner is no fun any more, haha. 

 

I am sure we are all looking forward to detailed reviews from new users.

[MJS301]

Hi from Melbourne Australia...I read with interest that another model, the 'Home' is released for sale in the US but in Australia (Brevilles home base) it will not be available here (at present anyway). I have the comercial version & am happy with everything it offers, it's quite an increadable machine actually. I stand to be corrected but I read the units available in the States & Canada are limited in there output to a max 1800w & even lower if a power adapter is needed. Is that correct ? If it is I assume that's because of the 110 - 120v input available. Here we operate on 240 - 250v & the output for these are rated at 100w - 2400w.

Anyway look forward to the discussion on here regarding the CF. Another Breville appliance I have been extremley pleased with is the Pizzaiolo oven...happy to answer any questions on that one. In the meantime...Happy cooking.

 

[jbates]

16 hours ago, horseflesh said:

I am sure we are all looking forward to detailed reviews from new users.

Same here. I just have to justify purchasing the second one with the boss/wife.

[tikidoc]

33 minutes ago, jbates said:

Same here. I just have to justify purchasing the second one with the boss/wife.

Will do, but I never got the original, so afraid there will be no comparison.

[Dex]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:21 AM, MJS301 said:

I stand to be corrected but I read the units available in the States & Canada are limited in there output to a max 1800w & even lower if a power adapter is needed. Is that correct ? If it is I assume that's because of the 110 - 120v input available. Here we operate on 240 - 250v & the output for these are rated at 100w - 2400w.

 

 

1800W = 15A * ~120V. Sadly many many electric appliances in the US get a bad reputation because there just isn't enough power available at a standard socket. Even though all residences have 240V service. 😑

 

Now whether the US version can actually take 240V and 2400W that's a good question. My unit is labeled only for 120V, but need to do some surgery to see what's actually inside. Almost everything else I own supports 120/240 as the result of incredibly common switching power supplies, or least a dip switch for the input transformer.

[afs]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:21 AM, MJS301 said:

Hi from Melbourne Australia...I read with interest that another model, the 'Home' is released for sale in the US but in Australia (Brevilles home base) it will not be available here (at present anyway). I have the comercial version & am happy with everything it offers, it's quite an increadable machine actually. I stand to be corrected but I read the units available in the States & Canada are limited in there output to a max 1800w & even lower if a power adapter is needed. Is that correct ? If it is I assume that's because of the 110 - 120v input available. Here we operate on 240 - 250v & the output for these are rated at 100w - 2400w.

Anyway look forward to the discussion on here regarding the CF. Another Breville appliance I have been extremley pleased with is the Pizzaiolo oven...happy to answer any questions on that one. In the meantime...Happy cooking.

I would love to see Breville make a 2400W (240V 10A) version for non-US/CA markets.  However I'm guessing that they'll only be selling them in the US for a while for a few reasons (such as the U.S. probably being their biggest market by far for it, potential issues for residential support networks outside the U.S., etc.).  Additionally, I'm not sure if the new slimmer model is designed to dissipate the kind of heat necessary for 2400W induction cooking.  It might be.  I really don't know.  But I would not be surprised if they designed and optimized this model for the US/CA market with the idea of creating an "international" version later if the U.S. version sells well enough--and that may mean that the circuitry is not sized for 2400W.

I'm planning to get one of the new Control Freak Home units.  Right now though I'm mostly looking forward to seeing the reviews.  The automated programs in particular are the part that's most interesting to me--especially if it's possible to input multi-step custom programs.

I'm also hoping that they post a manual sometime soon.  I looked on Chefsteps.com, but I couldn't find one.

[MJS301]

7 hours ago, Dex said:

 

1800W = 15A * ~120V. Sadly many many electric appliances in the US get a bad reputation because there just isn't enough power available at a standard socket. Even though all residences have 240V service. 😑

 

Now whether the US version can actually take 240V and 2400W that's a good question. My unit is labeled only for 120V, but need to do some surgery to see what's actually inside. Almost everything else I own supports 120/240 as the result of incredibly common switching power supplies, or least a dip switch for the input transformer.

 

That's interesting. I wasn't aware 240V was available to all households...as the majority of your appliances would be 120V, how does it work ? Are the outlets switchable or are there dedicated 240V outlets scattered throughout the house. When thinking about it, a cooker (oven/hotplates) would need more than 120V, aircon would be the same. I upgraded my house electrical system to 3phase about 15 years back when I installed a central aircon unit (415V 26kW reverse cycle) but of course I still have the normal 240V outlets throughout the house apart from a dedicated 415V outlet I had put in the garage. (handy for welders & heavy equipment etc)

 

I would be doubtfull Brevelle uses a switching transformer, my box the unit came in specifically indicates 240V for the Aust / NZ market, but a look inside could be worth the trouble. For what its worth here is the compliance info on the bottom of the unit...I left the letters preceeding the serial # in the pic incase it's of interest.

 

Another interesting point is, Breville don't sell this unit directly to the public on their website here or NZ. They are available but through a hotel / hospitality equipment suppier. It was no problem I ordered on a Monday & received on the Wednesday. Delivery included the unit was A$2049 which at the moment equates to US$1322 so pricing is similar.

 

[MJS301]

7 hours ago, afs said:

I would love to see Breville make a 2400W (240V 10A) version for non-US/CA markets.  However I'm guessing that they'll only be selling them in the US for a while for a few reasons (such as the U.S. probably being their biggest market by far for it, potential issues for residential support networks outside the U.S., etc.).  Additionally, I'm not sure if the new slimmer model is designed to dissipate the kind of heat necessary for 2400W induction cooking.  It might be.  I really don't know.  But I would not be surprised if they designed and optimized this model for the US/CA market with the idea of creating an "international" version later if the U.S. version sells well enough--and that may mean that the circuitry is not sized for 2400W.

I'm planning to get one of the new Control Freak Home units.  Right now though I'm mostly looking forward to seeing the reviews.  The automated programs in particular are the part that's most interesting to me--especially if it's possible to input multi-step custom programs.

I'm also hoping that they post a manual sometime soon.  I looked on Chefsteps.com, but I couldn't find one.

 

Well I'll keep my eyes open for the 'Home' arriving as a 240V unit. Breville are very limited to what information they will give to the public. I have a number of Breville appliances now (all good...have no problems with them apart from price...being a little high), good design usually & seem to go the distance.

 

Personally, I think if the price difference was only US$300 & the benefit was basically automated programs I would have to think hard if I needed to purchase another unit going forward. The unit is smaller, they use a 'polymer' inside frame as opposed to metal, from the little I've seen the interface appears 'fussy' (as opposed to the clear pan / set temp screen of the commercial) but this is all summation because we don't know all the facts as yet. I'm lucky I have plenty of bench space to accomodate the larger foot print commercial unit, I don't find it particularly noisy (maybe when it is ramping up to deep fry it's noticable) & I have managed to save many programs for recall in the 'create' storage area. Anyway early days for me & nice to chat.

[Dex]

11 hours ago, MJS301 said:

 

That's interesting. I wasn't aware 240V was available to all households...as the majority of your appliances would be 120V, how does it work ? Are the outlets switchable or are there dedicated 240V outlets scattered throughout the house.

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

[horseflesh]

Like @Dex said, 240V is technically available but little used here. In fact a 240V outlet is often referred to as a "dryer outlet" since that's one of the few routine uses.

 

That Aussie 240V CF is awesome.

[MJS301]

3 hours ago, Dex said:

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

Thanks for the Wiki explanation...so points in the kitchen & laundry (for specific 240V appliance) are designated & plug configuration is slightly different. Bit like petrol v diesel nozzels are different diameter to avoid mishaps.

[MJS301]

3 hours ago, Dex said:

 

Service delivery is 240V single split-phase with neutral wire, most circuits/outlets get half a phase. Certain appliances like electric ovens and dryers get high current 240V outlets. Since lower amperage 240V sockets aren't common (even though they are standard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector), nobody builds appliances for them, and so nobody installs them, and we complete the circle of dumb.

 

1 hour ago, horseflesh said:

Like @Dex said, 240V is technically available but little used here. In fact a 240V outlet is often referred to as a "dryer outlet" since that's one of the few routine uses.

 

That Aussie 240V CF is awesome.

Good explanation from @Dex...also can assure US isn't the only 'and we complete the dumb circle' (which amused me) ...many countries including ours seem to thrive on 'dumb decissions & policies'...but we here to cook so won't delve into that one.

[adrianvm]

I got a Control Freak Home last week and am trying to understand if it's working correctly.   I don't have a lot of induction compatible pans, so I purchased a Hestan 8" nonstick skillet.  The balance isn't great on the Freak due to the heavy handle.  I also noticed that it's concave along the bottom by about 1mm.  There is a story that this flattens out under heat which appears to be false, as it looks just as curved if I put a straight edge on it while it's hot.   I measured the temperature with an IR thermometer, and observed situations where the pan temperature was reading 400 F while the Freak was reporting 250 F.  That seemed a little strange. 

 

I know the Freak is supposed to overshoot on high intensity, but by that much?  I thought initially that the overshoot would be visible on the display, but have come to realize that part of the reason the overshoot occurs is that the temperature probe is for some reason not keeping up with the pan temperature.  I have some puzzlement, though, about how I can have a 100 degree discrepancy right above the sensor position.  Can I really have a 100 deg gradient over the 3mm thickness of the pan? 

 

So I did a test with low intensity and the pan set to 250.  The temperatures reported by my IR thermometer rise to about 290 and then fall and stabilize around 285.  Is it possible that the IR thermometer has a 35 deg error?  It's been suggested that emissivity assumptions could introduce error, but the temperature from the IR thermometer is accurate at room temperature (76 F), agreeing certainly to within 1 deg F with other temperature measurements.  The error from incorrect emissivity should be proportional to absolute temperature, which is  298 K at room temperature.  A 1 deg F error is 0.2%.  A 35 deg F error at 250 degF is a 5% error.   So what's going on here?  Is the temperature sensor underreading?  Could it be connected to the concavity of the pan? 

 

I tried heating butter with the pan set to 350 and the butter browned unevenly across the pan and the temperature of the butter varied significantly across the surface.  (In this case values were all below 350.)

 

I did another test using a Demeyere Atlantis dutch oven with a 9" base.  To avoid measuring stainless steel I put a bit of oil in the pan and heated it on low speed.  This pan rose and stabilized at a temperature about 15-20 deg above the Freak set temperature, so a lower offset compared to the Hestan nonstick pan, but still high.  Temperature uniformity appeared to be better than butter in the Hestan. 

 

So what's going on?  Is my Freak defective?  Or is it the pans?  Or is my measurement system not accurate?   I have two IR thermometers that give the same reading.  The better (?) one is a Thermoworks with adjustable E, but (1) it's confusing to use it and (2) changing the E value seems to have no effect on the measurements.  (Like I set it to E=0.1 and measurements didn't change.) 

[afs]

Just FYI, the commercial Control Freak is apparently on sale for 1200 USD at Amazon US at the moment.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01G5MZZ5Q/egulletsociety-20

[afs]

The Control Freak Home manual is now available!

https://assets.breville.com/BMC800/BMC800_USCM_IB_J24_LR.pdf

Of note, the manual says that we can "create multi-step preset to playback automatically".  Oh yes.  Yes, yes, yes.

 

For reference, here is the manual for the commercial Control Freak.
https://www.breville.com/content/dam/breville/us/assets/miscellaneous/instruction-manual/commercial/CMC850-instruction-manual.pdf

[adrianvm]

Looks like someone moved the discussion of pans to a different thread on Induction Friendly Cookware.  Not unreasonable, but kind of confusing when notifications linked to nonexistent messages.

 

So here's a question about cooking.  I'm trying to make a grilled cheese sandwich, but using a weird bread made out of almonds that doesn't brown the same way as wheat bread.  I tried cooking at 325 and the bread browned in 30 seconds and the cheese was still cold.   So I tried lowering the temperature but it seemed like it was then too low to brown, so I raised it and then got a similar situation where it was brown on the second side, but the cheese still wasn't melted.   Then I ended up waiting a very long time for the cheese to melt after both sides were brown, probably at 285 or something like that.  Should I be looking for the coldest temperature that browns?   Does a given temperature produce a given fixed amount of browning?  (In other words, is browning like meat cooking that it happens based on temperature rather than time?)   Like can I sit at 325 indefinitely without browning any more?  And what conditions are needed to melt the cheese more quickly?   (I never figured out how to make this work reliably on my gas stove but I think tend to have a reverse problem of cheese melted and leaking out but sandwich not brown yet.) 

[Laurentius]

6 minutes ago, adrianvm said:

Should I be looking for the coldest temperature that browns? 

 

Probably should be looking for a particularly melty cheese.  Maybe even nuking your sandwich before the grilling.

 

But what you really need is a copy of Harold McGee's On Food and Cooking, so you can refer to the different temperatures that caramelization and the Maillard reactions begin.

 

You also likely already know that things like bacon will--eventually--brown at quite low temperature settings. 

[MJS301]

Is there a reason you’re using almond bread ? From your description it sounds like it’s not suitable for what you’re looking to achieve. Unless there’s a particular reason you need almond bread why make life difficult. 

[horseflesh]

It's possible that almond bread just isn't great for this application. 

 

Even with wheat bread I find that the bread can brown before the insides fully melt, especially with thick bread or if I am putting meats and things in there. I usually put the ingredients that will go inside the sandwich into the microwave for a moment, to get them up at least to room temperature. Then, I finish assembly and put it in the pan. 

 

[adrianvm]

Perhaps the almond bread isn't "great" for this application, but it makes a decent sandwich and dietary constraints make it one of the best options.  And in any case, that's the problem at hand.  I don't know if a wheat bread process is radically different.  I recall encountering similar issues with getting the cheese to melt when the bread browns. 

 

McGee says Maillard browning "becomes noticeable" around 230 F and has a table that lists it as happening at 250 F.  In fact, 250 F was the temperature I dropped to when browning was too fast at 325 F.  I don't find that I'm particularly enlightened---my recalled temperature thresholds seemed to be basically right.  Maybe what I need to understand is not how browning happens but how the cheese melts.  Note that I'm using a cheddar which is not a fabulous melter but is an OK melter---and it does melt.  Most better-melting cheese are too bland and making my own processed cheese with sodium citrate is too much trouble for this (and also my wife doesn't like that kind of processed cheese). 

 

The idea of microwaving the cheese first seems promising, though I usually butter the bread.  What stovetop conditions are needed to melt the cheese?   I could cover the pan and heat below browning temperature to soften the cheese, then uncover it and brown both sides, perhaps. 

 

 

[horseflesh]

For a simple cheese sandwich, cold ingredients grilled at 350F for 3 to 4 minutes per side works fine. But that's with regular bread. (I usually put butter in the pan and plop the sandwich into liquid butter instead of trying to spread butter on the bread.)

 

I am not picking on your bread, but it just may not perform the same. 

[adrianvm]

My bread definitely might not perform the same.   But knowing that procedure is helpful because it suggests something about what's necessary to melt the cheese.   One thing I did notice is that it seemed like I was never at risk of overcooking the sandwich.  On my gas stove sometimes while trying to melt the cheese I end up burning the bread and that never seemed to be a danger.   

[adrianvm]

Anybody know the diameter of the control freak coil?  I didn't see this spec anywhere.   Here's a picture from their promo video.  I think the marked circle is 9.5".   I also wonder why there is a gap in between the two rings.