Starch in chocolate

[pastrygirl]

 

saw this post and questioned why  “in theory, this won’t work”, response so far is “starch in chocolate can be problematic”

 

Ok ... obviously adding a lot of fine dry material will decrease fluidity, and things could get weird if you were going to add cream and make ganache, but how else would milling popcorn into chocolate “not work”?  My experiments so far suggest you just need enough warm cocoa butter to keep things moving, how would starchy popcorn be different from fibrous fruits?  

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by pastrygirl (log)

[Lisa Shock]

Isn't it like a fattier version of crisped rice?

[Kerry Beal]

4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

saw this post and questioned why  “in theory, this won’t work”, response so far is “starch in chocolate can be problematic”

 

Ok ... obviously adding a lot of fine dry material will decrease fluidity, and things could get weird if you were going to add cream and make ganache, but how else would milling popcorn into chocolate “not work”?  My experiments so far suggest you just need enough warm cocoa butter to keep things moving, how would starchy popcorn be different from fibrous fruits?  

 

 

 

I think it might work out - but when you are  conching and getting smaller and smaller particle size and each particle needs to be coated in cocoa butter for mouth feel and smoothness - you might require a boatload of additional cocoa butter. 

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Isn't it like a fattier version of crisped rice?

Not sure what you mean 

[pastrygirl]

3 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I think it might work out - but when you are  conching and getting smaller and smaller particle size and each particle needs to be coated in cocoa butter for mouth feel and smoothness - you might require a boatload of additional cocoa butter. 

 

Right, but doesn’t that apply to anything dry?  Nonfat dry milk, sugar, freeze dried fruit ... I guess it’s problematic if you don’t want to add extra cocoa butter. 

[pastrygirl]

6 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Isn't it like a fattier version of crisped rice?

 

Yes, if the pieces stayed that size. Simply mixing in dry chunks doesn’t really affect chocolate, but if you’re grinding it to perfectly smooth, as Kerry said the smaller and smaller particles will require more fat to keep moving. But the butter on the popcorn would help. 

 

I’m just not seeing why a pastry pro would say it shouldn’t work. It’ll work with more fat, that’s a simple solution. Problematic if the popcorn isn’t buttery enough or you don’t have extra cocoa butter, I guess. 

 

 

 

 

[Lisa Shock]

9 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Not sure what you mean 

 

Pastrygirl gets it, I just meant that IMO, this isn't any different than a Nestle Crunch bar. Aside from the butter/oil on the popcorn, the addition is very much like adding Rice Crispies cereal to chocolate. It's not new, innovative, nor should it involve much of a different technique.

[Tri2Cook]

11 minutes ago, Lisa Shock said:

 

Pastrygirl gets it, I just meant that IMO, this isn't any different than a Nestle Crunch bar. Aside from the butter/oil on the popcorn, the addition is very much like adding Rice Crispies cereal to chocolate. It's not new, innovative, nor should it involve much of a different technique.

But it's not that at all. He's not making a popcorn bark, he's running it all through a melanger so that the end result is a smooth chocolate with the flavor of the buttered popcorn in it. 

[Lisa Shock]

Ok sorry, I misunderstood. The downside I see is the hard skin bits from the corn. Even ground down, they just have an unappealing texture. I'd buy Ammoretti's popcorn flavor and their butter flavor.

[Tri2Cook]

1 hour ago, Lisa Shock said:

The downside I see is the hard skin bits from the corn. Even ground down, they just have an unappealing texture.

Under normal grinding conditions, I'd agree. But with the melanger, I think enough time and, as Kerry and pastrygirl mentioned, enough cocoa butter just might solve that problem. I guess we'll see where he gets with it.

[Kerry Beal]

8 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Right, but doesn’t that apply to anything dry?  Nonfat dry milk, sugar, freeze dried fruit ... I guess it’s problematic if you don’t want to add extra cocoa butter. 

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.

[Tri2Cook]

2 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.

I just assumed that must be the case since he mentioned it being a problem but didn't get specific. But then again, Michael Laiskonis is one of my pastry heroes so maybe I'm just not as willing to question him as I should be. 

[pastrygirl]

33 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.

 

Exactly.  What are we missing?  Aren't starches just complex sugars? 

 

26 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:

I just assumed that must be the case since he mentioned it being a problem but didn't get specific. But then again, Michael Laiskonis is one of my pastry heroes so maybe I'm just not as willing to question him as I should be. 

 

Ha!   I just want to know what he's expecting to go wrong.  Maybe it will be revealed, or maybe I'll need to try it for myself.  I have the tools ...

 

[Kerry Beal]

I can't find anything in Beckett about it.

[Tri2Cook]

39 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Ha!   I just want to know what he's expecting to go wrong.  Maybe it will be revealed, or maybe I'll need to try it for myself.  I have the tools ...

 

I was actually semi-disappointed to see his post. That basic idea was already on my experiment list for when I get my hands on a melanger. I thought I had a clever idea in mind, apparently not clever enough to not be beaten to it. 

[pastrygirl]

I had also been thinking of popcorn or caramel corn in chocolate, but as pieces.  Wheat-free and not a nut Making it a smooth "milk" chocolate is an interesting idea!  

 

Now I'm thinking smooth rice and cinnamon horchata 'milk' chocolate.  Or white chocolate!  Theo already has a milk chocolate horchata bar but it would be interesting to try a non-dairy version.  Rice, CB, sugar, cinnamon, maybe a little macadamia butter ...