Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create an account.

pastrygirl

Starch in chocolate

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

4AE475AF-58B2-44FA-8D63-50820FA1DE91.thumb.png.ec86c3404b5e2a0df260dc97feea7362.png

 

saw this post and questioned why  “in theory, this won’t work”, response so far is “starch in chocolate can be problematic”

 

Ok ... obviously adding a lot of fine dry material will decrease fluidity, and things could get weird if you were going to add cream and make ganache, but how else would milling popcorn into chocolate “not work”?  My experiments so far suggest you just need enough warm cocoa butter to keep things moving, how would starchy popcorn be different from fibrous fruits?  

 

 


Edited by pastrygirl (log)
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

4AE475AF-58B2-44FA-8D63-50820FA1DE91.thumb.png.ec86c3404b5e2a0df260dc97feea7362.png

 

saw this post and questioned why  “in theory, this won’t work”, response so far is “starch in chocolate can be problematic”

 

Ok ... obviously adding a lot of fine dry material will decrease fluidity, and things could get weird if you were going to add cream and make ganache, but how else would milling popcorn into chocolate “not work”?  My experiments so far suggest you just need enough warm cocoa butter to keep things moving, how would starchy popcorn be different from fibrous fruits?  

 

 

 

I think it might work out - but when you are  conching and getting smaller and smaller particle size and each particle needs to be coated in cocoa butter for mouth feel and smoothness - you might require a boatload of additional cocoa butter. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Isn't it like a fattier version of crisped rice?

Not sure what you mean 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

I think it might work out - but when you are  conching and getting smaller and smaller particle size and each particle needs to be coated in cocoa butter for mouth feel and smoothness - you might require a boatload of additional cocoa butter. 

 

Right, but doesn’t that apply to anything dry?  Nonfat dry milk, sugar, freeze dried fruit ... I guess it’s problematic if you don’t want to add extra cocoa butter. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Lisa Shock said:

Isn't it like a fattier version of crisped rice?

 

Yes, if the pieces stayed that size. Simply mixing in dry chunks doesn’t really affect chocolate, but if you’re grinding it to perfectly smooth, as Kerry said the smaller and smaller particles will require more fat to keep moving. But the butter on the popcorn would help. 

 

I’m just not seeing why a pastry pro would say it shouldn’t work. It’ll work with more fat, that’s a simple solution. Problematic if the popcorn isn’t buttery enough or you don’t have extra cocoa butter, I guess. 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Kerry Beal said:

Not sure what you mean 

 

Pastrygirl gets it, I just meant that IMO, this isn't any different than a Nestle Crunch bar. Aside from the butter/oil on the popcorn, the addition is very much like adding Rice Crispies cereal to chocolate. It's not new, innovative, nor should it involve much of a different technique.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lisa Shock said:

 

Pastrygirl gets it, I just meant that IMO, this isn't any different than a Nestle Crunch bar. Aside from the butter/oil on the popcorn, the addition is very much like adding Rice Crispies cereal to chocolate. It's not new, innovative, nor should it involve much of a different technique.


But it's not that at all. He's not making a popcorn bark, he's running it all through a melanger so that the end result is a smooth chocolate with the flavor of the buttered popcorn in it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok sorry, I misunderstood. The downside I see is the hard skin bits from the corn. Even ground down, they just have an unappealing texture. I'd buy Ammoretti's popcorn flavor and their butter flavor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lisa Shock said:

The downside I see is the hard skin bits from the corn. Even ground down, they just have an unappealing texture.


Under normal grinding conditions, I'd agree. But with the melanger, I think enough time and, as Kerry and pastrygirl mentioned, enough cocoa butter just might solve that problem. I guess we'll see where he gets with it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Right, but doesn’t that apply to anything dry?  Nonfat dry milk, sugar, freeze dried fruit ... I guess it’s problematic if you don’t want to add extra cocoa butter. 

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.


I just assumed that must be the case since he mentioned it being a problem but didn't get specific. But then again, Michael Laiskonis is one of my pastry heroes so maybe I'm just not as willing to question him as I should be. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

For sure - I wonder if there is something more significant about starches though.

 

Exactly.  What are we missing?  Aren't starches just complex sugars? 

 

26 minutes ago, Tri2Cook said:


I just assumed that must be the case since he mentioned it being a problem but didn't get specific. But then again, Michael Laiskonis is one of my pastry heroes so maybe I'm just not as willing to question him as I should be. :D

 

Ha!   I just want to know what he's expecting to go wrong.  Maybe it will be revealed, or maybe I'll need to try it for myself.  I have the tools ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't find anything in Beckett about it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Ha!   I just want to know what he's expecting to go wrong.  Maybe it will be revealed, or maybe I'll need to try it for myself.  I have the tools ...

 


I was actually semi-disappointed to see his post. That basic idea was already on my experiment list for when I get my hands on a melanger. I thought I had a clever idea in mind, apparently not clever enough to not be beaten to it. :D

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had also been thinking of popcorn or caramel corn in chocolate, but as pieces.  Wheat-free and not a nut :) Making it a smooth "milk" chocolate is an interesting idea!  

 

Now I'm thinking smooth rice and cinnamon horchata 'milk' chocolate.  Or white chocolate!  Theo already has a milk chocolate horchata bar but it would be interesting to try a non-dairy version.  Rice, CB, sugar, cinnamon, maybe a little macadamia butter ...

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Similar Content

    • By pastrygirl
      Who here hand dips chocolates, either with their actual hand, or with a fork?
       
      I have a side job working with a woman who hand dips everything with her fingers in a puddle of chocolate on a sheet of parchment.  She's super fast at it, I tried it but it felt so messy and awkward.  I have done a little fork-dipping, so today dipped 300+ cookies with a fork and remembered why I hate fork dipping. 
       
      So, anyone have any pointers, tricks,  or favorite dipping forks that don't make your hand go numb?  Today I used a dinner fork, I didn't have my actual chocolate dipping forks, but they have really thin metal handles that are hard to hold onto and horrible.  I need like the Good Grips version for people with arthritis and pastry chefs who have done too much piping ...
    • By Arlene13
      Posted 1 hour ago My truffles are cracking and leaking even when dipped at room temperature. 
      I am so frustrated! Also some centres are too soft to dip unless chilled or frozen, suggestions? Also anyone have a good butterscotch truffle recipe with no icing sugar or cream cheese involved?
      thank you!
    • By BVWells
      I just wanted to thank Kerry, Steve (lebowits), Rob (gfron1) and Chocolot for taking the time out to answer so many of my questions. I haven't been working with chocolate for long and was running into a number of problems and they were so helpful. After following their advice and lots of practice I finally feel like I am getting the hang of things. Here are today's results. Waiting to be filled, but so far so good. Thank you again and hopefully I'll get to meet you guys at the workshop next year. By the way, there will be TONS of additional questions to come. lol
       
      Branden

    • By eglies
      Hi everyone I am a new chocolatier. I would like to know if anyone sells their bonbons in malls or airports and if they do, do you keep them in a fridge for chocolates? I know that chocolate is very sensitive to temperature especially bonbons...or is the air-conditioning enough?
    • By eglies
      Hello I am a new chocolatier. I am calculating my costs to come up with a budget for my new business. I need help from you guys.
      if lets say a box of 12 bonbons costs me 4 dollars including raw material and packaging, how much should your sales price be? Also how much would you charge for wholesale, assuming margin is between 20-40%?
      How much is a reasonable labour cost per hour? 
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×