Custom Polycarbonate Molds

[Jim D.]

10 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

Custom is an expensive solution. 😬  I know you know all the theory, but my 2 cents is to let the chocolate sit in the mold a bit longer before dumping to get a thicker shell (or work a little cooler, or both) and chill finished pieces overnight before un-molding. 

 

I already let the tall chocolates sit extra time before dumping.  I now work on two molds at a time; fill both, let them sit, start working on the first, by then the second has sat longer.  The trick, however, is not to let them sit too long--which I did once and learned a lesson.  The problem is that it is impossible to  know how long is long enough, and meanwhile the bowl of chocolate is crystallizing more--it's a constantly changing scenario.  One knowledgeable person suggested that I needed to make one mold, let it sit a bit, then fill it all over again and empty again.  That is more than even I am willing to do.  And I do let the molds sit for several hours before unmolding; I haven't yet done the overnight routine.  I neglected to mention another idea that @Chocolotmentioned, and it is one that has been discussed at some length by @Kerry Beal and others:  the domes with nearly vertical sides tend to form a kind of suction that makes unmolding particularly difficult.  That insight is what led me to consider CW 2205 with its sloped sides.  I've got one more option before custom molds:  Chocolat Chocolat is shipping me a Cabrellon mold that looks promising.  Another suggestion someone had (you can see I have tried to do my homework):  Switch chocolates because Felchlin couverture (according to this person, a view I do not share) is particularly fluid.  Very expensive--yes, very fluid--not as far as I can tell.

[Kerry Beal]

So I looked through the catalogues for Cabrellon, Chocolate World and JKV - didn't find anything quite like a larger version of the 2207

[pastrygirl]

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

I now work on two molds at a time; fill both, let them sit, start working on the first, by then the second has sat longer. 

 

I usually fill 3 or 4 molds then dump in the order they were filled. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

One knowledgeable person suggested that I needed to make one mold, let it sit a bit, then fill it all over again and empty again.  That is more than even I am willing to do. 

 

I sometimes do that, especially with white chocolate (Felchlin Edelweiss) when I've dumped the mold and immediately thought, oh crap, I can see through that.  Agree that it's not ideal   

[curls]

5 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

for reference, is that 1157?

 

https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=62427&trng=fgle&kw=&cpn=17758065100&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzva1BhD3ARIsADQuPnWZNGhrjIaNMwhil1hMfwS-LZkdibCezQR6GBmpeEMCwznlNVWCNXsaArMtEALw_wcB

Here is a link to the CW2207 it is not the same as the CW1157. The CW2207 does not have a corresponding 1000 series mould. It looks to be a bit flat on the top.

https://www.chocolateworld.be/winkel/moulds/frame-moulds/CW2207

Cavity length: 30 mm
Cavity width: 30 mm
Cavity height: 19 mm
Cavity weight: 14 gr

 

The CW1157 is the same as CW2472

https://www.chocolateworld.be/winkel/moulds/frame-moulds/CW1157

Cavity length: 30 mm
Cavity width: 30 mm
Cavity height: 25 mm
Cavity weight: 17 gr

 

@Jim D. not sure if you have contacted them but Chocolate World does make custom moulds.  https://www.chocolateworld.be/blog/vormen/exclusieve-vormen Per the linked page, the minimum number of moulds for a custom order is 50.

Edited August 15 by curls
added more information about custom moulds (log)

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, Kerry Beal said:

So I looked through the catalogues for Cabrellon, Chocolate World and JKV - didn't find anything quite like a larger version of the 2207

 

At Chocolat Chocolat it's ART6024, a smaller version.  One of those molds is arriving tomorrow, so that I can see it.  If I think it will work, they would special-order the larger version, ART1728 (17g).  I think this won't work because it is too close to being a half-sphere (which I already have), but I thought it was worth a try.  Laurianne at CC was very helpful in photographing all the molds "in contention" and agreed that photos of molds don't correspond very well to seeing them in person.-

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I usually fill 3 or 4 molds then dump in the order they were filled. 

 

 

Yes, but IIRC 😝 don't you have  Selmi (keeping everything in temper for all enternity)?

 

Quote

I sometimes do that, especially with white chocolate (Felchlin Edelweiss) when I've dumped the mold and immediately thought, oh crap, I can see through that.  Agree that it's not ideal   

I'm interested to see that from you.  White chocolate is so difficult to use for shells.  The first couple of molds, you get the see-through effect.  Then, without warning, the chocolate turns to sludge and comes out of the mold only with intense pounding.  I am frustrated that most white chocolate manufacturers give their couverture a lot of drops for fluidity.  I suppose if they told the truth, nobody would buy their product.

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, curls said:

Here is a link to the CW2207 it is not the same as the CW1157. The CW2207 does not have a corresponding 1000 series mould. It looks to be a bit flat on the top.

https://www.chocolateworld.be/winkel/moulds/frame-moulds/CW2207

Cavity length: 30 mm
Cavity width: 30 mm
Cavity height: 19 mm
Cavity weight: 14 gr

 

The CW1157 is the same as CW2472

https://www.chocolateworld.be/winkel/moulds/frame-moulds/CW1157

Cavity length: 30 mm
Cavity width: 30 mm
Cavity height: 25 mm
Cavity weight: 17 gr

 

@Jim D. not sure if you have contacted them but Chocolate World does make custom moulds.  https://www.chocolateworld.be/blog/vormen/exclusieve-vormen Per the linked page, the minimum number of moulds for a custom order is 50.

 

Those two molds are not the same.  CW calls 1157 a cone, whereas 2207 is a "flat cone." They differ in volume (17g vs. 14g).  And 1157 is taller, and that is what makes the difference between them--and, so it seems--causes the difficulties in molding and unmolding.  I did see that CW makes custom molds.  In fact they made the custom half-spheres Tomric made for me.  I would certainly have them do this (who would know better how to make a larger version of one of their own molds?), but the previous process took longer than I have. 

[curls]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

 

Those two molds are not the same.  CW calls 1157 a cone, whereas 2207 is a "flat cone." They differ in volume (17g vs. 14g).  And 1157 is taller, and that is what makes the difference between them--and, so it seems--causes the difficulties in molding and unmolding.  I did see that CW makes custom molds.  In fact they made the custom half-spheres Tomric made for me.  I would certainly have them do this (who would know better how to make a larger version of one of their own molds?), but the previous process took longer than I have. 

Jim, I'm puzzled by your post are you agreeing or disagreeing with my post? 

 

I was answering @pastrygirl's question about whether CW2207 and CW1157 produce the same shape and I said that they are not the same and provided the specs and links to those moulds on Chocolate World's website.

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 don't you have  Selmi (keeping everything in temper for all enternity)?

I do, but it’s full of dark chocolate so I still use my mol d’ art melter for milk & white chocolates. 
 

Back to molds, sounds like you’re looking for something 25mm deep to fit all your layers?   What is the max bonbon height your packaging will allow?

 

I forgot my laptop at the shop, maybe I can search molds tomorrow, not that I’d find anything Kerry didn’t. 

Edited August 16 by pastrygirl (log)

[Kerry Beal]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

At Chocolat Chocolat it's ART6024, a smaller version.  One of those molds is arriving tomorrow, so that I can see it.  If I think it will work, they would special-order the larger version, ART1728 (17g).  I think this won't work because it is too close to being a half-sphere (which I already have), but I thought it was worth a try.  Laurianne at CC was very helpful in photographing all the molds "in contention" and agreed that photos of molds don't correspond very well to seeing them in person.-

Totally missed these this am in the Cabrellon catalogue - looks like there is one even bigger 

 

 

 

[pastrygirl]

I’m liking this faceted dome for Jim, facets should facilitate release 

https://www.chocolateworld.be/shop/moulds/frame-moulds/CW12056

 

cant decide if the octagon would be good or a nightmare as far as sticking/suction 

https://www.chocolateworld.be/shop/moulds/frame-moulds/CW1350

 

[Jim D.]

10 hours ago, curls said:

Jim, I'm puzzled by your post are you agreeing or disagreeing with my post? 

 

I was answering @pastrygirl's question about whether CW2207 and CW1157 produce the same shape and I said that they are not the same and provided the specs and links to those moulds on Chocolate World's website.

 

I'm sorry.  I misread your post.  You are correct; the two molds have different specs.

[Jim D.]

10 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

Back to molds, sounds like you’re looking for something 25mm deep to fit all your layers?   What is the max bonbon height your packaging will allow?

 

 

Not to get too far into the weeds (the weeds being the specs I need, which are peculiar to my packaging), but the relevant specs of the large dome (CW 1157) are 30mm diameter and 25mm height, 17g weight.  The flattened dome  (CW 2207) specs are 30mm diameter and 19mm height, 14g weight.  My regular packaging (which was made to fit my largest piece) is 38mm high, so no problem there.  The cavities of the various trays (where I am mostly subject to what the market provides) allow for a maximum 34mm diameter piece.  All is fine there, BUT for weddings and similar events (my biggest restaurant wholesale customer has now taken to giving away 4-piece boxes of chocolates to their "VIP" guests and increasingly to guests who are displeased with some aspect of their dining experience--the "bitch boxes" I call them), I had to find other boxes, and the only attractive boxes I have found are less tall, so that the large dome just barely touches the lid--not a good thing.  So my specs for the potential new flattened dome are diameter less than 35mm, height less than 22mm, weight 17g.  I am not a  designer, but those parameters should allow for increasing the height of the new mold by a mm or two and increasing the diameter by whatever it takes to allow for 17g. That should still allow for a flattened dome design.  As we get closer to a half-sphere, the bonbon gets easier to release.  The filling layers in this potential mold will be larger in diameter but shorter in height.... I guess I did get into the weeds, but nobody needs to read it.  And eGullet may be the only place on earth where one may post such detail without being locked up.

[curls]

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

I'm sorry.  I misread your post.  You are correct; the two molds have different specs.

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

 

3 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

Not to get too far into the weeds (the weeds being the specs I need, which are peculiar to my packaging), but the relevant specs of the large dome (CW 1157) are 30mm diameter and 25mm height, 17g weight.  The flattened dome  (CW 2207) specs are 30mm diameter and 19mm height, 14g weight.  My regular packaging (which was made to fit my largest piece) is 38mm high, so no problem there.  The cavities of the various trays (where I am mostly subject to what the market provides) allow for a maximum 34mm diameter piece.  All is fine there, BUT for weddings and similar events (my biggest restaurant wholesale customer has now taken to giving away 4-piece boxes of chocolates to their "VIP" guests and increasingly to guests who are displeased with some aspect of their dining experience--the "bitch boxes" I call them), I had to find other boxes, and the only attractive boxes I have found are less tall, so that the large dome just barely touches the lid--not a good thing.  So my specs for the potential new flattened dome are diameter less than 35mm, height less than 22mm, weight 17g.  I am not a  designer, but those parameters should allow for increasing the height of the new mold by a mm or two and increasing the diameter by whatever it takes to allow for 17g. That should still allow for a flattened dome design.  As we get closer to a half-sphere, the bonbon gets easier to release.  The filling layers in this potential mold will be larger in diameter but shorter in height.... I guess I did get into the weeds, but nobody needs to read it.  And eGullet may be the only place on earth where one may post such detail without being locked up.

Great to have the additional detail -- definitely belongs on eGullet.  I'm wondering, would it be easier for you to get a custom 4-piece box? If so, then perhaps you could purchase a new off-the-shelf mold that will be easier to work with and meet your other bonbon making criteria. It is always interesting to see the unexpected ripple effect of our choices.  🙂

[Jim D.]

Update on the mold search:  The Cabrellon 6024 mold arrived from Chocolat Chocolat, and I made a few solid chocolate pieces using it, plus a few from Kalle Jungstedt's signature mold, a similar flattened dome.  First conclusion:  A photo of a mold, or even seeing it empty is quite different from viewing a piece of chocolate made with it.  Both molds are labeled as producing 11 grams.  The Jungstedt mold chocolate weighed 10.5g, so 11g seems accurate enough.  But the Cabrellon (also an 11g mold) produced a chocolate weighing 9.5g, so 11g seems not accurate enough.  That makes me nervous about projecting what the 17g version of the Cabrellon will be like from seeing the smaller mold.  But the Cabrellon mold is close to the appearance of the "standard" in this search, CW 2207, the flattened dome.  If the larger Cabrellon is as good as it seems, I will be relieved not to have to deal with the non-salesman at Micelli, not to mention the price.  But I am unwilling to purchase a substantial number of the Cabrellon molds without actually seeing one in front of me and making a chocolate from it.  I have asked Chocolat Chocolat if they would consider ordering a single mold from Italy (or maybe a couple of them).  I know this is a nuisance for a company.  My only other option to contact Bakedeco (they carry Cabrellon, but I don't know whether they do special orders) or Cabrellon directly (but then I have to deal with import issues).  Thanks to everyone for the suggestions.

[curls]

Good luck with your search @Jim D..

 

FYI the import issue ordering from Cabrellon should be the same as ordering from Chocolat Chocolat.

 

So far I haven't had any issues ordering from Europe or Canada the businesses have everything in place to export their goods and get them thru US Customs.

[pastrygirl]

How crucial is the weight?  Any wiggle room?  I feel like with chocolate prices going crazy, now would be a perfect time to add smaller molds to the mix.  Save 10% on ingredients & raise prices anyway  
 

Good luck!

 

 

[AlaMoi]

disclaimer:  I just eat chocolates . . .

 

a thought - if the primary issue is achieving a thicker side ,,,  and the sides are so steep they don't like that idea . . .

could 2-3 hour stay in the freezer help?

 

the cold shell should cause the liquid to set faster - clearly the heat from the chocolate will quickly 'warm' the shell - but it might just be enough...?

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, curls said:

Good luck with your search @Jim D..

 

FYI the import issue ordering from Cabrellon should be the same as ordering from Chocolat Chocolat.

 

So far I haven't had any issues ordering from Europe or Canada the businesses have everything in place to export their goods and get them thru US Customs.

 

Thanks for that information.  It is a relief to know.

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

How crucial is the weight?  Any wiggle room?  I feel like with chocolate prices going crazy, now would be a perfect time to add smaller molds to the mix.  Save 10% on ingredients & raise prices anyway  
 

Good luck!

 

 

 

I do have smaller molds, lots of them.  These are the multi-layered ones I am concerned about.  I am not good enough at piping to be able to fit three layers into a 12-gram mold.  "Raise prices anyway" -- don't let the Consumer Protection Agency find out--you will become the poster child for price gouging.   As for chocolate prices, have you given up Felchlin?  I didn't think so.

[Jim D.]

2 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

disclaimer:  I just eat chocolates . . .

 

a thought - if the primary issue is achieving a thicker side ,,,  and the sides are so steep they don't like that idea . . .

could 2-3 hour stay in the freezer help?

 

the cold shell should cause the liquid to set faster - clearly the heat from the chocolate will quickly 'warm' the shell - but it might just be enough...?

 

Ingenious idea, but I don't think it would work.  My evidence:  On occasions when I have taken molds from the cool room where they were stored and, without thinking, immediately filled them with chocolate to make a shell, the 90F chocolate hitting the 60F mold has caused immediate thickening of the chocolate--and a very thick shell.  It might seem logical to heat the chocolate above 90F before pouring into the frozen mold, but much above 90F, and the chocolate goes out of temper--and would come out of the shell only with a chisel (I exaggerate, but not by much).

[pastrygirl]

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

These are the multi-layered ones I am concerned about.  I am not good enough at piping to be able to fit three layers into a 12-gram mold.

To me, the depth of the mold/height of finished piece is more relevant than weight.  A 30x30mm cube will weigh more than a 30x30 cylinder or hemisphere or pyramid but they'll all fit in the same packaging.  Just saying there might be something of the appropriate depth and diameter but that's only 14-16g due to shape.

 

1 hour ago, Jim D. said:

 As for chocolate prices, have you given up Felchlin?  I didn't think so.

😂 Nope!  My rep gave me a heads up so I ordered 260 kg at old prices, that should get me most of the way through Xmas, I think.  Also looking for better deals on packaging but still planning to raise prices by 5-10%.  I need to make a living!

Edited August 18 by pastrygirl (log)

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

To me, the depth of the mold/height of finished piece is more relevant than weight.  A 30x30mm cube will weigh more than a 30x30 cylinder or hemisphere or pyramid but they'll all fit in the same packaging.  Just saying there might be something of the appropriate depth and diameter but that's only 14-16g due to shape.

 

 

You bring up what I have always thought is the inappropriateness of judging molds by weight.  I suppose it more or less works, but it is really the volume--as you point out--that matters.  That's why when I wrote my app to calculate what quantity of a filling I need to fill a given mold, I base it all on volume.  I record the volume of each mold in teaspoons and weigh a teaspoon of each filling in grams.  It's only an approximation, but it helps.  

[Jim D.]

Update on the 17g dome mold:  I emailed Cabrellon to see if they would sell me a couple of the molds mentioned earlier in this thread.  I heard nothing, so I asked Chocolat Chocolat (CC) if they would go ahead and order 10 of the molds (10 being the minimum Cabrellon will sell them).  The contact at CC informed me that Cabrellon is closed for the entire month of August (I think I'm living in the wrong country).  CC has ordered 10 of the molds, which should arrive in mid-September.  My rationale was that even if I don't end up making these molds my default large dome, I can still use them.  And the price is considerably better than custom molds from Micelli.  Meanwhile the 17g CW molds used in the August batch have produced better results.  It still took some tapping to get everything out, but I didn't lose any bonbons at all, and the shells seemed more substantial (no cracks detected).  It's just that it takes a lot of special attention to get the thicker shells required in tall cavities.  For the September batch I will try pastrygirl's technique of filling 3-4 molds at a time.

[Rajala]

I hope you can get your hands on some! I use that mold quite often and have no issues with it at least.