Custom Polycarbonate Molds

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

If there are bean-to-bar manufacturers in the Seattle area (which I suspect there are), I can't see how you could compete with what they make because even if their product isn't that fantastic, it will still have the bean-to-bar cachet. I always respect what Teo says, but in my experience, most customers prefer filled chocolates--after all, they can go to a grocery store and get a decent bar of chocolate at a low price, even in my small city.

 

Locally, Theo is the largest, I believe they distribute nationally, they also do various inclusions and some caramels and stuff.  They are everywhere now so not seen as special anymore.  Definitely can't match their pricing.  Couple smaller bean-to-bar folks too but lots of confectioners.  Fran's is the big fancy-ish but mass market confectioner, they are mostly known for chocolate covered salted caramels and their stuff is $40-50/lb.  I feel like their quality has gone down as they've gotten bigger but is still pretty high.  And Seattle Chocolates, which I think are gross, they do "truffle" bars that have coconut oil meltaway fillings.  So those 3 local companies are everywhere.  The nicer grocery stores do carry $6-9 artisan bars - Dick Taylor, Raaka, Manao, Chuao, Valrhona, etc.

 

I talked to someone at a wholesale show recently about what the large markets require - there's a bunch of 3rd party certification that I don't have yet.  I figure getting into 10 or 20 small boutique or specialty stores that don't need all the extra stuff is the first step, then I can scale up from there.

 

Packaging design isn't finished but here's the work in progress, package is about 3 x 4-1/2":

[Jim D.]

As a packaging fanatic, I think those are very good-looking, restrained and elegant. Are you still doing filled chocolates as well as the bars with inclusions? I think I recall that you recently said the filled ones are not selling as well. Is that still true? If so, it's very different from customers in my area.

[pastrygirl]

I do want to do more bonbons - hence the airbrush upgrade -  but not for wholesale because shelf life.  I think bonbons online or in person only. 

[teonzo]

12 hours ago, Jim D. said:

If there are bean-to-bar manufacturers in the Seattle area (which I suspect there are), I can't see how you could compete with what they make because even if their product isn't that fantastic, it will still have the bean-to-bar cachet. I always respect what Teo says, but in my experience, most customers prefer filled chocolates--after all, they can go to a grocery store and get a decent bar of chocolate at a low price, even in my small city.

 

This is the way of thinking of discerning customers, meaning people who already know what they want before approaching the seller. They still are a minority, most of people are not that informed about food, they buy chocolate for gifts or for impulse buy. If you stop some random people and ask them if they know what bean-to-bar chocolate is, most of them will remain puzzled and silent. But they have money in their wallets and they buy chocolate, this ignorance will lead them to be more willing to buy a $4 re-melted Valrhona than a $8 bean-to-bar when they are going for something "fancy" (gift or special treat for themselves). Those people have money to spend and you want their money to have a successful business. Discerning customers pay your ego, non-discerning customers pay your bills.

Pastrygirl is in a particular situation: she does not have a brick and mortar store, she does farmer markets and pop-ups (at least this is what I remember, please correct me if I'm wrong). This means she is exposed to much more casual passers. People who go to farmer markets don't go there specifically to buy chocolate, but they pass in front of her stand. You need something to attract them (look at it as a siren or a trojan horse), most of the time it has to be something familiar. Non discerning customers are not that familiar with creative bon-bons, filled bars and so on. But everyone is familiar with a plain bar. Those people are going to think that prices for bean-to-bar bars are too high (if not outrageous), so a fairly priced plain bar can be attractive to them when they need it for a special reason (gift or a personal award for passing an exam or similars). If you start to catch those fish then you can try to pull some impulse buys too and sell them few bon-bons or else.

This is why I suggested to read a couple of books on marketing psychology. It's a dozen hour investment that will repay in the size of thousands dollars. It's an intangible investment but it's well worth the effort. There are various techniques to induce people in impulse buys, these buys make a sensible difference at the end of the year. I'm not meaning the difference between being polite and impolite to customers, it's something more subtle, but effective. You can still be ethical in your work if you pay attention to the quality of your products: you are not screwing people, you are telling them that the best way to spend their money is on your products.

If you can add a good amount of plain bars to your revenue then you get various more intangibles. You sell more chocolate per month: this means you pay lower prices to your chocolate supplier; this means higher turnover so it's easier to manage your warehouse stock. You recoup mold investment in less time. It's easier to be able to afford the investment on a Selmi or similar, which is the biggest different for a chocolatier (not having it means thinner profit margins). Plus there is the advantage that plain bars have a much longer shelf life than filled products.

I totally understand that as an artisan you get much more satisfaction producing difficult stuff, it's the ego of the "art" in "artisan". But more than all we are professional, which means money (profit) first.

 

Please take what I wrote with a grain of salt. I'm not Pierre Hermé,  these are just my thoughts and not general rules.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[teonzo]

10 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

 

Very very nice! Go big with those molds!

 

 

 

Teo

 

[pastrygirl]

@Jim D. and everyone, what about custom candy trays?  Who can you recommend?

 

Thanks!

[Jim D.]

If you think custom polycarb molds are expensive, wait until you investigate custom trays! I was astounded at the cost. The search experience has given me a whole new level of appreciation for the plastic containers in produce sections. Of course it's not the actual making of the trays but the tooling costs that get you, and the minimums are very high. I found only one company that would make them for my relatively small quantities, and I did a lot of searching and inquiring. I did finally get some made. I am very pleased with them, but they would make only clear ones (no gold, which is what I wanted) unless I paid even more. I use stock trays for three of my sizes and the custom ones for the fourth size. I would like to get one other size, but the cost holds me back. If you want more details, just ask.

[pastrygirl]

2 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

If you think custom polycarb molds are expensive, wait until you investigate custom trays! I was astounded at the cost. The search experience has given me a whole new level of appreciation for the plastic containers in produce sections. Of course it's not the actual making of the trays but the tooling costs that get you, and the minimums are very high. I found only one company that would make them for my relatively small quantities, and I did a lot of searching and inquiring. I did finally get some made. I am very pleased with them, but they would make only clear ones (no gold, which is what I wanted) unless I paid even more. I use stock trays for three of my sizes and the custom ones for the fourth size. I would like to get one other size, but the cost holds me back. If you want more details, just ask.

 

Ha, no, that says enough.  I was hoping since the plastic is so thin it would be easier, but it's always $$$$ for the tooling and dies. 

[Kerry Beal]

I was discussing custom molds with the owner of Chocolat-Chocolat when we were in Paris. In anticipation of the legalization of edibles in Canada in October of this year she had two molds made by Chocolate World.  

 

 

 

 

She also had packaging made to go with. 

 

Here.  scroll down about half way - laws don't allow her to show pics on the website - but will send on request. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Tri2Cook]

22 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

 

http://www.clicshop.com/Scripts/Search/SearchInStore.asp - laws don't allow her to show pics on the website - but will send on request.

I may know somebody (not me, this is an actual case of "for a friend" ) that would be interested in that mold. For some reason, the link isn't opening a page for me.

[rotuts]

@Kerry Beal

 

the link also does not work of mr

 

but since you brought it up :

 

and the economics of Every Day Life

 

interest me :

 

how are long are the lines

 

in the various dispensaries ?

 

here in MA

 

there are now two non-medical dispensaries

 

I think the lines are long

 

and the amout for purchase is low

 

no matter

 

the Clap-Traps in the political sphere are what they are

 

as 

 

" the history of scientific revolutions "

 

pointed out :

 

science progreses 

 

because   scientists essentially get old and die

 

that simple

 

Politicians seem to be of harder bark

 

and taking their time

 

of each and every Party

 

nothing to do with legal weed

 

just the same

 

there it is

 

so , the lines ?

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, Tri2Cook said:

I may know somebody (not me, this is an actual case of "for a friend" ) that would be interested in that mold. For some reason, the link isn't opening a page for me.

There are no pictures on the page if that's what's happening - law doesn't allow it. If you ask she will send you pictures. Corrected the link - you'll have to scroll half way down.

 

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Kerry Beal (log)

[Tri2Cook]

3 minutes ago, Kerry Beal said:

There are no pictures on the page if that's what's happening - law doesn't allow it. If you ask she will send you pictures. 

 

 

Nothing at all shows up, the page doesn't open for me. The URL is correct in the address bar but nothing shows in the content. Just a blank page. Could just be something at my end but everything else is working fine.

[pastrygirl]

Are the rules & regs on edibles established yet?  Here, those bars would have to be sealed in heavy plastic before going into those boxes. 

 

Also, I believe the max per wrapped piece is 10 mg, so even though the bars break up you could only add 10 mg thc, not 90 or 100. So from that perspective, and if they’re after the US market (though state rules vary), they might want to consider smaller tasting bars or bonbon size pieces, as well as allowing clearance for an extra layer of child-proof wrap. 

Edited December 22, 2018 by pastrygirl (log)

[Kerry Beal]

1 hour ago, pastrygirl said:

Are the rules & regs on edibles established yet?  Here, those bars would have to be sealed in heavy plastic before going into those boxes. 

 

Also, I believe the max per wrapped piece is 10 mg, so even though the bars break up you could only add 10 mg thc, not 90 or 100. So from that perspective, and if they’re after the US market (though state rules vary), they might want to consider smaller tasting bars or bonbon size pieces, as well as allowing clearance for an extra layer of child-proof wrap. 

 

No rules yet - it has reached the ‘let’s consult the public’ stage.

[akonsu]

Hello everyone. Maybe this is a bad idea, and if so then I just want to confirm that: did anyone try wooden moulds? They are much easier to make... I realize that you won't get this shiny surface like with plastic moulds, so they cannot be used for this, but for other applications I think they might be acceptable. For example there are Japanese kashigata moulds that are usually made from cherry and that can be polished well. Might this be a feasible alternative to polycarbonate for certain applications? Or am I way off?

[keychris]

I think you'll get too much insulation from wood, and I'd be surprised if it would release. Also there's hygiene issues with porous materials like wood.

[Kerry Beal]

Agree about the insulation interfering with retraction and release - but you could try!

[akonsu]

Hello, did anyone use Cabrellon for custom molds? http://www.cabrellon.it/project/custom-molds/?lang=en Could you comment on it if so?

[Jim D.]

Reviving this topic:  Has anyone had recent experience having custom polycarbonate molds made?  I used Tomric once, and it took forever (international shipping was the culprit for much of the delay as the company had them made in Europe).  Tomric has now switched to using a manufacturer in Turkey, and the lead time remains unacceptable (I need these for Christmas production).  So I turned to the only other U.S. source that I know of, Micelli.  They are the only company that makes injection molds in the U.S., so their lead time is relatively brief.  The problem is that my initial conversation with the staff member in charge of molds left a lot to be desired.  He seemed not really to be interested in my business at all (he didn't even ask for my name).  I was left with the concern that any issues with details, measurements, etc., would be a hassle.  The website gives the impression that making bar molds is the chief product, and bars are quite different from bonbons.  I have this odd assumption that a manufacturer is supposed to fulfill the (reasonable) requests of a customer.  Too much money is involved to treat the process casually.  Does anyone know of another U.S. or Canadian manufacturer?

Edited August 15 by Jim D. (log)

[pastrygirl]

@Jim D. no suggestions, but what shape do you want to make?

 

 

[Jim D.]

8 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

@Jim D. no suggestions, but what shape do you want to make?

 

 

I have had so many issues with the tall 17g CW domes (sides too thin, difficulty unmolding, cocoa butter stuck in mold) that I need a solution.  I can get the sides thicker (and had more success unmolding), but it takes an incredible amount of extra time--to keep rotating the mold with the crystallizing chocolate--that Christmas production will take from now until 12/25.  @Chocolotsaw my post elsewhere and suggested it was the height of those molds and their straight sides (gravity causing the chocolate to flow down, no matter what one does).  I also use CW 2207, which is a flattened dome and causes fewer problems, but I do a lot of 2- and 3-layer bonbons and need space for those layers.  So I had the brilliant idea of having a larger version of CW 2207 made. 

Edited August 15 by Jim D. (log)

[pastrygirl]

2 hours ago, Jim D. said:

tall 17g CW domes

 

for reference, is that 1157?

 

https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=62427&trng=fgle&kw=&cpn=17758065100&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzva1BhD3ARIsADQuPnWZNGhrjIaNMwhil1hMfwS-LZkdibCezQR6GBmpeEMCwznlNVWCNXsaArMtEALw_wcB

[Jim D.]

7 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

for reference, is that 1157?

 

https://www.bakedeco.com/detail.asp?id=62427&trng=fgle&kw=&cpn=17758065100&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzva1BhD3ARIsADQuPnWZNGhrjIaNMwhil1hMfwS-LZkdibCezQR6GBmpeEMCwznlNVWCNXsaArMtEALw_wcB

 

Yes, it is.  I also have the next smaller version, CW 1433 (15g), but it isn't large enough for some fillings.  And yes, I could cut the amount of each filling (though piping a crunchy layer is a very tricky proposition).

[pastrygirl]

Custom is an expensive solution. 😬  I know you know all the theory, but my 2 cents is to let the chocolate sit in the mold a bit longer before dumping to get a thicker shell (or work a little cooler, or both) and chill finished pieces overnight before un-molding.