Convection vs. Conventional Oven

[chefmike1973]

Hello.  I am in the process of opening a small restaurant, where I will be serving only breakfast and lunch.  At some point I plan to make the bread inhouse for the sandwiches.  If I were to buy just one range with an oven would you recommend a convection or a still oven?  Thanks for your opinions and information. 

 

 

 

[Dave W]

Convection and it's not really close.

[gfweb]

Any thoughts about a combi oven in this setting?

[Alex]

Yes, especially if you'll be baking bread, how about a combination convection + steam oven, like this Thermador?

[Edward J]

Get the plain jane oven for under your range...

 

Odds are very high that after 2 mths you'll be wanting a second oven for baking. 

 

Why?

 

The oven under your typical N.American commercial range (ie garland, u.s. range, wolf, south bend, etc) will only accept two sheet pans.  If you're baking bread in loaf pans, you'll only get one sheetpan in that oven.

 

On the other hand, if you've got a  prime rib or a pot roast in the oven, you can't bake anything else for the next two - three hours.

 

For general restaurant purposes, you'll be using your oven-under-the-range for: 

-trayed up bacon

-baked potaotes

-lasagna

-and of course, for a'la carte servce

 

you're going to need a second oven if you want to do any serious baking.....

[btbyrd]

For serious baking in a restaurant setting, you will want a combi oven. I'd rather buy my bread from a quality local bakery than try to bake good bread in restaurant quantities without a combi. You will find other uses for it.

Edited May 5, 2015 by btbyrd (log)

[Unpopular Poet]

+ 1 for the Combi.  

[Edward J]

For serious baking in a restaurant setting, you will want a combi oven. I'd rather buy my bread from a quality local bakery than try to bake good bread in restaurant quantities without a combi. You will find other uses for it.

I have to disagree with both points.

 

Firstly, a combi is like a Lamborghini: expensive topurchase,, expensive to maintain, and only really good at high speeds.  A combi is really good for plate rethermalization--it can easily pay for itself in a few months in a banquet setting, it's also very good with roasting meats (far less weight loss) and poaching and steaming.

 

Yet none of the scenerios I listed is what the O.P. wants, he is looking for something to bake bread in. A combo for the O.P is like driving his mother-in-law to the airport in a Lamborghini, sand if you pay attention to the o.p.'s post he is on a tight budget....

 

A N. American convection oven will bake bread quite well--especially Pullman style loaves and buns, less so for "hearth baked"| style breads, and downright mediocre to lousy for many types of pastries.  The typical N. American convection oven (baker'spride, Blodgett, garland, southbend Vulcan, etc) is a "stupid" oven  It has only one temperature zone and the fan blows in only one direction.  When the fans blows in a clock-wise direction, any product in the back right hand side of the oven will bake faster, if the fan runs counter--clockwise, it's the back half of the left side.  The bottom rack will always have an pale bake compared to the upper 1/3 of the racks.  This means you have to rotate the pans, and every time you open those huuuuge double doors, you are letting out a lot heat into the kitchen and the oven needs more time to get back up to temperature.

 

I was using first generation Rational combo ovens in the early '80's in Switzerland that addressed this problem quite well.  On European combis, the fan blows clockwise for 5 mins, stops, then reverses for 5 mins and so on, and when you open th door, the fans stops instantly, avoiding the loss of a lot of hot air.

 

The ideal oven for "serious " baking is a deck oven.  Here you have heating elements under the deck as well on the "ceiing" of the oven, you can control the intensity of these elements, as well as the overall heat.  For example I want to bake quiches. and I want dark gold bottom crusts and pale gold tops.  I set the bottom heat to "3", and the top heat to "2", with the overall heat to 190 (375f).  For a lemon meringue pie, I'd turn the top heat to "3", the bottom hat to "0" and the overall hat to 220 (425f)  For thumbprint cookies I'd have the bottom heat to 2 and the top heat at 1.  With deck ovens you also have a damper and can control the humidity generated in the oven. 

 

Using bakeries for bread is a nice idea, but most--if not all bakeries want a minimum amount for deliveries--usually $50 per drop.  For a small restaurant this is a lot bread.  There are two options, with the first buying a week's worth of bread and freezing what you don't need.  The second is to bulk up the order with breakfast pastries or desserts. 

 

What most places do is buy in "par-baked" bread, which you take what you need and pop it in the (convection) oven for a few minutes to give it colour and out it goes.  Another option is to buy in frozen dough balls, shape th bread as needed, proof and bake.  This is the only option giving you "bragging rights" of "Freshly baked bread"

[Barrytm]

I agree with Edward.  Most combi's are very expensive, and if you get the "cheap" ones  ( $3,000 to $4,500 ) they are not ideal for baking bread because the upper limit is about 440 F, the interior is quite small, and the convection fan is always on.    A deck oven is ideal.  Blodgett and Bakers Pride make several.  Another option designed for homes, but I think have been used in a few small bakeries, is a Rofco  http://pleasanthillgrain.com/rofco-electric-stone-oven-b40-bread-oven  , which would take up less space.  The combi would be great for reheating, because the food stays moist, but doubt you would be doing much reheating for breakfast or lunch.  

Edited May 7, 2015 by Barrytm (log)

[chris_s]

would a consumer grade oven be up to the duty cycle required of a commercial environment? 

[Edward J]

it's not the duty cycle of a consumer grade oven, it's the capacity...

 

A typical N. American convection  full size oven listing at $5500 will accept 5 full size 18 x 26 sheet pans.

 

A typical Rational combi oven listing at $12,000 will accept 6 18 x 12 half  sheet pans*

 

A typical household range will accept 2 18 x 12  half sheet pans

 

The typical commercial grade 12-er muffin pan will not fit into a half size oven

 

The original poster needs an oven for regular restaurant usage PLUS baking, so don't forget when baking bread that takes 45-60mins your oven is tied up, same thing when roasting a large roast, except for a longer time.

*this makes it roughly 4 times more expensive than a plain-Jane convection if your main purpose is to bake with

[Dave W]

The capacity issue is a good point but I'm not confident that any oven loaded to absolutely full capacity will function how you want.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Dave W (log)

[Edward J]

The capacity issue is a good point but I'm not confident that any oven loaded to absolutely full capacity will function how you want.

You really think so?

 

Go to any production bakery or supermarket bakery during peak times and watch them load the ovens 

 

I dunno, but I've been loading every type of oven known to man to full capacity with good results for more than 30 years now.

 

It's kind of like buying a pick up truck that's rated to carry 1000 lbs safely, but the mnfctr states you can only carry 750 lbs....

[rotuts]

do those 'productions' ovens have fans ?

 

Im told that some convections ovens have two sets of fans :  one circulates air in the oven, and another introduces hot air 'fanned' over a heating element.

[chris_s]

You really think so?

 

Go to any production bakery or supermarket bakery during peak times and watch them load the ovens 

 

I dunno, but I've been loading every type of oven known to man to full capacity with good results for more than 30 years now.

 

It's kind of like buying a pick up truck that's rated to carry 1000 lbs safely, but the mnfctr states you can only carry 750 lbs....

 

 

those ovens in a bakery are commercial grade ovens made to be used to capacity. 

 

And if you haul 1000 lbs in that pickup truck every single day you will run into problems. It can do it from time to time in a pinch, but the mfgr has only built it to a duty cycle of 750 lbs

[Edward J]

Yes. commercial equip[ment.

 

I think what the O.P. (who coincidentally hasn't responded) is looking for is advice. 

 

In particular,  advice as a result of working in commercial kitchens, and familiarity with commercial equipment.

 

What the o.p describes is a  $700 option of adding a squirrel cage fan to a regular commercial oven-under-the-range.  The o.p. also wants to bake his own bread, which is to be congratulated--not told to buy from a bakery.

 

The crown (or ceiling height) of a regular oven-under-the-range is between 18"-20" and typically this oven will only accept two full size (18 x 26inch) baking pans, thus he can only utilize one shelf if he wants to bake Pullman style loaves.

 

Shall we get back to topic?