Cheater Method for Hearth Style Bread - Anyone up for testing?

[pbear]

Requesting a little assistance. 

 

For several years, I’ve been baking bread by a variation of the covered pot method, where I start with the baking vessel at room temp rather than pre-heated.  Instead, I do the final rise in the pot and, when ready, put that (covered) into a hot oven.  I do it this way for several reasons.  First, I live in a small studio apartment without a proper kitchen, so I need a method that will work in a countertop oven.  Second, I find transferring proofed dough to a heated pot awkward and nerve wracking (fear of burns).  Third, starting with a room temp baking vessel opens up lots of options as regards shapes and sizes, e.g., using a 1/3 steam table pan to make batards.  Fourth, although not perfect, the method gives me pretty good results.

 

The reason for this thread is that I’m in the process of updating my personal cookbook (not published, just something I distribute to family and friends) and would like to include this method in the bread chapter.  My concern is that, while I assume it will work in a standard oven, I’ve never had a chance to test it; also, it occurs to me the timing might be different.  I’d appreciate it if a couple folks (or three) would give it a test run and let me know.  To be clear, I’m not trying to convert anyone to this approach.  It’s a cheater method and I assume anyone willing to test it probably has a non-cheater one which works better for them.  I’m just trying to confirm whether it works in a normal oven.

 

Anyhoo, here are the details.  Prepare whatever bread dough you generally use.  For the sake of comparing results, it would be helpful if you work up a dough based on 1 lb (450 g) flour, thus producing a dough something like 1 lb 11 oz (760 g) raw weight and a finished loaf of about 1-1/2 lb (675 g).  Prepare a baking vessel by oiling lightly, then dusting with rice flour (finely-milled semolina or cornmeal also may be used).  My preferred baking vessel is a 3 qt All Clad cassoulet, but any similarly shaped saucier or “chef’s pan” would be just as good.  Indeed almost any oven proof pot with a lid will work; it’s mostly for the shape of the baked boule that I prefer the rounded pot.  After the first rise, shape dough into a ball, roll in bread or all purpose flour, place in pot, cover and give a second rise.  Preheat oven to 450ºF/232ºC.  Spritz dough thoroughly with water, slash with a razor or knife, cover and place in oven.  After half an hour, reduce heat to 375ºF/191ºC, uncover pot and bake another half hour.  Reduce oven to 325ºF/163ºC; remove bread from pot, transfer to a shallow baking pan with a rack and bake a final half hour.  Let cool on a wire rack.

 

Note:  This is how I’ve written the instructions for the book, which assumes a conventional oven.  For a countertop oven, I have to make several adjustments to shield the crust from overcooking.  Whether I have correctly backed out those adjustments is one of the things I’m trying to confirm. 

 

Feel free, of course, to play with variations on this protocol to your heart’s content, but please do at least one trial as written, so we have a common basis of comparison.

 

Many thanks to any who have the time and interest to give this a whirl.

[gfweb]

What counter top oven do you use?

[pbear]

The Cuisinart BRK-200.  It's since been discontinued, which is a shame as it's a nice little oven, a bit deeper and taller inside than most, simple knob controls, reasonably accurate thermostat, and both bake and convection modes.

[Jim D.]

At the moment I'm not up to trying what you request, but I wanted to point out that Cook's Illustrated, after providing its own variation on the no-knead, cooked-in-a-pot bread (the variation being that the bread was formed in parchment, then the parchment + bread transferred to the hot pot), a few issues later had a note that experimentation revealed that preheating the pot did not make a difference.  Having tried both, I'm not sure I agree, but the difference was minimal--and one feels much more secure not being inches away from a 450-degree pot.  I must add that baking the loaf an hour and a half seems like a lot; the temp of my loaf reaches 200F. somewhere between 45 and 60 minutes.

[pbear]

Hey Jim.  FWIW, I'm not using this for no-knead bread.  Rather, I'm using an ordinary kneaded dough, generally (though not always) white with a modest 67% hydration.  I intentionally left that open, though, as I want folks to use whatever dough they're familiar with, so they're dealing with one variable not two.

 

Also, I realize my baking time is longer than most, but bear in mind (i) the pot has to heat up and (ii) most of the baking is at lower temps than usual.  Without the first factor, i.e., when I was doing hearth style bread conventionally in a normal oven but with a high-medium-low temp protocol, total baking time was just over an hour for boules and batards, so what I'm doing here isn't as far from what you do as may appear.  As for why fiddle with the temp at all, that's because I find it works better.  But goodness knows there's more than one way to bake a good loaf of bed..  How this method stacks up against others is certainly fair topic for discussion.  Not sure how one can comment on that, though, without trying both.

[Anna N]

pbear,

I am happy to help you out. I really don't need much of an excuse to bake some bread. I will be using a Ken Forkish dough and preparation method which I would normally bake in a preheated cast iron Dutch oven.

[cyalexa]

Anyhoo, here are the details.  Prepare whatever bread dough you generally use.  For the sake of comparing results, it would be helpful if you work up a dough based on 1 lb (450 g) flour, thus producing a dough something like 1 lb 11 oz (760 g) raw weight and a finished loaf of about 1-1/2 lb (675 g).  Prepare a baking vessel by oiling lightly, then dusting with rice flour (finely-milled semolina or cornmeal also may be used).  My preferred baking vessel is a 3 qt All Clad cassoulet, but any similarly shaped saucier or “chef’s pan” would be just as good.  Indeed almost any oven proof pot with a lid will work; it’s mostly for the shape of the baked boule that I prefer the rounded pot.  After the first rise, shape dough into a ball, roll in bread or all purpose flour, place in pot, cover and give a second rise.  Preheat oven to 450ºF/232ºC.  Spritz dough thoroughly with water, slash with a razor or knife, cover and place in oven.  After half an hour, reduce heat to 375ºF/191ºC, uncover pot and bake another half hour.  Reduce oven to 325ºF/163ºC; remove bread from pot, transfer to a shallow baking pan with a rack and bake a final half hour.  Let cool on a wire rack.

 

Note:  This is how I’ve written the instructions for the book, which assumes a conventional oven.  For a countertop oven, I have to make several adjustments to shield the crust from overcooking.  Whether I have correctly backed out those adjustments is one of the things I’m trying to confirm. 

 

Feel free, of course, to play with variations on this protocol to your heart’s content, but please do at least one trial as written, so we have a common basis of comparison.

 

Many thanks to any who have the time and interest to give this a whirl.

I need to bake a white bread for my TG dressing and will give this approach a try. I am a little reluctant to transfer the loaf to a shallow pan and rack, mostly because it is 2 more things to wash. I would like to transfer it directly onto my stone (assuming the idea is to crisp the bottom) if you don't feel it will screw up your ability to compare results.

[Anna N]

Here you go

Shaped after bulk fermentation

Slashed and sprayed

Covered in the oven

Top and bottom after 30 minutes at 450

Top and bottom of finished loaf.

Happy to answer any questions you might have.

[Anna N]

Sorry the top and bottom after 450 is wrong. That was after an hour in the oven first at 450 then at 375.

[pbear]

Anna, thank you very much.  Looks to me like that worked just fine.  Was this your impression also?  As a "quality control" check, how would you say it compared to that dough cooked in a pre-heated pot?

 

cyalexa, I'm pretty sure cooking on the stone will change how the bottom finishes, but I'll take half a loaf if that's what works for you.  In other words, it'll still be good test for the top and sides.  And it'll be informative to learn whether my hunch about the bottom is correct.

[Anna N]

Anna, thank you very much.  Looks to me like that worked just fine.  Was this your impression also?  As a "quality control" check, how would you say it compared to that dough cooked in a pre-heated pot?

 

cyalexa, I'm pretty sure cooking on the stone will change how the bottom finishes, but I'll take half a loaf if that's what works for you.  In other words, it'll still be good test for the top and sides.  And it'll be informative to learn whether my hunch about the bottom is correct.

It did indeed work fine. I don't think there is any difference between this way and preheated Dutch oven way. However, I don't know your reasoning for using rice flour but I would not do so myself. I do not think that anything other then a light oiling is necessary. My daughter's family who were the recipients of the bread thank you!

[cyalexa]

Anna, thank you very much.  Looks to me like that worked just fine.  Was this your impression also?  As a "quality control" check, how would you say it compared to that dough cooked in a pre-heated pot?

 

cyalexa, I'm pretty sure cooking on the stone will change how the bottom finishes, but I'll take half a loaf if that's what works for you.  In other words, it'll still be good test for the top and sides.  And it'll be informative to learn whether my hunch about the bottom is correct.

I'll probably start the dough tomorrow and bake on Monday. What is your hunch about finishing the bottom, ie. what is the goal of finishing on a rack in a shallow pan? Re. the quality control check, I have never used a pre-heated dutch oven although I bought a metal drawer pull to use on the top so I would have the option. I have a cloche and use that, preheated of course, for baking boules.

[pbear]

It did indeed work fine. I don't think there is any difference between this way and preheated Dutch oven way. However, I don't know your reasoning for using rice flour but I would not do so myself. I do not think that anything other then a light oiling is necessary. My daughter's family who were the recipients of the bread thank you!

 

Thanks.  I use the rice flour because otherwise the bread sometimes adheres to the baking vessel.  But that element has been part of the recipe for so long that I no longer recall how frequent a problem it was.

[pbear]

I'll probably start the dough tomorrow and bake on Monday. What is your hunch about finishing the bottom, ie. what is the goal of finishing on a rack in a shallow pan? Re. the quality control check, I have never used a pre-heated dutch oven although I bought a metal drawer pull to use on the top so I would have the option. I have a cloche and use that, preheated of course, for baking boules.

 

My hunch is that finishing on the stone will cause the bottom crust to come out crunchier than usual (or desirable).  On reflection, perhaps a better compromise solution would be simply to leave the bread in the pot for the last half hour.  And, yes, for purposes of comparison, a pre-heated dutch oven and a cloche are virtually identical.

[cyalexa]

 

I followed your instructions with the following exceptions:

 

1. My finished bread weighed almost 2.5lbs (sorry, needed 2 lbs for TG dressing)

 

2. I lightly oiled my dutch oven but did not use any flour

 

2. I removed the bread from the oven when the internal temp reached 201F, there was still 12 min of the final 30 left

 

I think this "cheater" method works well. I'm assuming it is easier getting a hot loaf out of the hot dutch and onto a rack than it is getting raw dough into a hot dutch oven. My cloche has a fairly low-sided bottom so it is not too hard to get the dough in place. 

 

 

[pbear]

Thanks, that's very helpful.