Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 1)

[Kerry Beal]

Could you pre-salt the green beans before they're dried, or does the salt not stick through the process?

I did pre salt - sprinkled it on while blanching - I've used too much on somethings before - but I didn't use enough this time I guess.

[Kerry Beal]

Do you typically have to blanch vegetables before freeze drying? If so, you could blanch the green beans in heavily salted water.

I'm doing some experiments with blanched, unblanched and fully cooked.  I think I would like the fully cooked green beans best.

[Kerry Beal]

Were the mashed potatoes made from fresh potatoes or from instant? I have thought about freeze drying mashed potatoes, but freeze drying it from instant would not seem to provide any advantages.

Fresh for sure.  Bought one of those great big bags of russet potatoes from Costco.  

[MelissaH]

The one advantage I could see to doing homemade mashed potatoes over purchased flakes is that you could control exactly what goes into it: the right amount of milk, the right amount of butter, any flavorings. I would love to be able to find some mashed potato flakes without preservatives for baking. The other thing I wonder about, with homemade mashed potatoes, is if you could make dried potato water. (Or maybe that's a job for the rotovap first? Then take whatever you get after removing the majority of the water and freeze-dry that?)

[BGW]

Made some chicken teriyaki-ginger marinade..-Home made -sauce.  And did some Guac.

 

The guac was straight out of the bag... already seasoned.. not to "my liking", but I didn't have time to doctor it up to the "Mr. Mike's Standards."

 

Pretty good tasting "as is" dried.

 

IMG_2146.JPG IMG_2148.JPG

 

Did 5 lbs of cottage cheese.. Pretty tasty dried as well.

 

IMG_2149.JPGIMG_2151.JPG

 

I see this thread is slowing down..

 

SO.. What's in YOUR dryer.?

 

Mr. Mike

Just started with my FD. Thanks for all the postings and pics, really helpful! I did raw hamburger and raw sirloin steak. rehydrated a couple of the hamburgers and they seemed a bit tough

but the flavor was good. Thinking maybe raw meat is not the thing to do? Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Can raw meats be FDed? Is there a rule of thumb on how to tell how much liquid to use to rehydrate?  Thanks again for the postings.

BGW

[Deryn]

You obviously did freeze dry raw meats, BGW - so it 'can' be done. Rehydration of some things may be more tricky.

If the only items you have in the FD at any given time are all the same and pretty well the same size (i.e. the hamburgers you mentioned), I would say you could measure the amount of residual water you drain out during the defrost cycle and divide it by the number of burgers you had in the machine to get how much water was in one burger.

Or I guess you might be able to weigh the hamburger before it is dried, weigh it again afterward and then figure out how much water it takes to make up that difference.

I haven't done raw meat yet, but others have and seem to be happy with steaks, etc. - though I don't think I have seen anyone who has done a hamburger already formed into patties, raw. Perhaps you would have better results if you did the burger meat raw and then made the hamburger after rehydrating? Or you might try a thinner burger too - you didn't say anything about how thick yours were. Have you tried cooking the burger first and then rehydrating after drying to see whether the toughness is still an issue?

Welcome to eGullet.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[BGW]

You obviously did freeze dry raw meats, BGW - so it 'can' be done. Rehydration of some things may be more tricky.

If the only items you have in the FD at any given time are all the same and pretty well the same size (i.e. the hamburgers you mentioned), I would say you could measure the amount of residual water you drain out during the defrost cycle and divide it by the number of burgers you had in the machine to get how much water was in one burger.

Or I guess you might be able to weigh the hamburger before it is dried, weigh it again afterward and then figure out how much water it takes to make up that difference.

I haven't done raw meat yet, but others have and seem to be happy with steaks, etc. - though I don't think I have seen anyone who has done a hamburger already formed into patties, raw. Perhaps you would have better results if you did the burger meat raw and then made the hamburger after rehydrating? Or you might try a thinner burger too - you didn't say anything about how thick yours were. Have you tried cooking the burger first and then rehydrating after drying to see whether the toughness is still an issue?

Welcome to eGullet.

Deryn, Thanks for the welcome.

The hamburgers were 1/2" thk. Good idea about measuring the water, but unfortunately I have been doing multiple foods to fill dryer. My concern on FD raw meat was that bacteria might be an issue. I will concentrate on doing just one meat, weigh before  FD and again after. 

I just did some sweet potato casserole, OH MY what a treat! I think I will try coating with chocolate to see how that works. I also FDed spaghetti squash it came out so fragile that I vacuumed sealed  in 1/2 gal jars. Did not think it would work, but when reconstituted, it was the same as before FD, amazing! After a few days, I noticed the  vac. sealed Speg Squash contents had taken on moisture and the squash was limp...UGH.  I re-dried the Speg.squash and this time , I added an OXY absorber, hope this works. I thought if you vacuumed sealed the jar, the OXY would be all gone, lesson learned! Along the lines of using the OXY absorbers. I used an OXY absorber with the raw FD hamburger and vacuum sealed the bag . Has anyone used the vacuum sealer and plastic bags instead of mylar for FD products?  If so do you just draw vac. to a min. to keep product from being crushed ? I think I have a lot more questions than answers, so thank you again for your help.

BGW :-)

[Tango Charlie]

I've got everything ready, got cart setup, vacuum oil ordered, and have a TON of stuff ready to FD. All my Thanksgiving leftovers and a bunch of other stuff waiting. I'm just waiting for my unit to ship.... So anxious!

[dbinokc]

BGW,

I currently store all the food I dry in quart and pint size jars. The only vacuum failure I had was due to a jar that had a crack in it.

Beyond that I just make sure the lids and lip of the jar are clean and free of any debris. And inspect your jar for cracks before using.

Edited December 1, 2014 by dbinokc (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Deryn, Thanks for the welcome.

The hamburgers were 1/2" thk. Good idea about measuring the water, but unfortunately I have been doing multiple foods to fill dryer. My concern on FD raw meat was that bacteria might be an issue. I will concentrate on doing just one meat, weigh before  FD and again after. 

I just did some sweet potato casserole, OH MY what a treat! I think I will try coating with chocolate to see how that works. I also FDed spaghetti squash it came out so fragile that I vacuumed sealed  in 1/2 gal jars. Did not think it would work, but when reconstituted, it was the same as before FD, amazing! After a few days, I noticed the  vac. sealed Speg Squash contents had taken on moisture and the squash was limp...UGH.  I re-dried the Speg.squash and this time , I added an OXY absorber, hope this works. I thought if you vacuumed sealed the jar, the OXY would be all gone, lesson learned! Along the lines of using the OXY absorbers. I used an OXY absorber with the raw FD hamburger and vacuum sealed the bag . Has anyone used the vacuum sealer and plastic bags instead of mylar for FD products?  If so do you just draw vac. to a min. to keep product from being crushed ? I think I have a lot more questions than answers, so thank you again for your help.

BGW :-)

I'm storing some stuff in vacuum bags and drawing just enough of a vacuum not to crush.  Stuff won't last years - but long enough for what I need it for.

 

And welcome!

[Kerry Beal]

I've got everything ready, got cart setup, vacuum oil ordered, and have a TON of stuff ready to FD. All my Thanksgiving leftovers and a bunch of other stuff waiting. I'm just waiting for my unit to ship.... So anxious!

Patience Grasshopper!  Are you pre freezing the stuff you have waiting?

[BGW]

I'm storing some stuff in vacuum bags and drawing just enough of a vacuum not to crush.  Stuff won't last years - but long enough for what I need it for.

 

And welcome!

Thanks Kerry, 

Hats off to you for starting this blog.... really helpful. 

[BGW]

BGW,

I currently store all the food I dry in quart and pint size jars. The only vacuum failure I had was due to a jar that had a crack in it.

Beyond that I just make sure the lids and lip of the jar are clean and free of any debris. And inspect your jar for cracks before using.

 

The vacuum was still good and tight when I opened it, I did not put an oxygen absorber in jar, I think that was the problem. Do you use oxygen absorbers  in your FD food? I do not use oxygen absorber with  my dehydrated foods and have not had a problem. Have you FDed any meats? Raw and or cooked? I have canned plenty of meats, never dehydrated any. I'm really enjoying all the knowledge on this blog. Thanks to Kerry for starting it! 

[Kerry Beal]

Today's offerings - 

 

 

The mashed potatoes that weren't quite dry last run - and some chervil that was invading parts of the garden in which it was not planted!

 

 

Sweet pickle slices - these are chewy, not crisp like the the dills - I guess due to the sugar content.  Also some guacamole.  

 

 

A big old sour cabbage, cut into slices.  Wanted bigger pieces than I would get with FDing a jar of the regular sauerkraut.  I found the wine sauerkraut to be too fine once dried.  

 

 

Some mango chunks and a batch of modernist mac and cheese.  

[dbinokc]

The vacuum was still good and tight when I opened it, I did not put an oxygen absorber in jar, I think that was the problem. Do you use oxygen absorbers  in your FD food? I do not use oxygen absorber with  my dehydrated foods and have not had a problem. Have you FDed any meats? Raw and or cooked? I have canned plenty of meats, never dehydrated any. I'm really enjoying all the knowledge on this blog. Thanks to Kerry for starting it! 

I have not used any oxygen absorbers in mine. I use my chamber vac to seal my jars. There is a picture of that  somewhere earlier in this thread. Most of my dehydrating is centered around things like fruits, that I do not use fast enough before they spoil. Nothing really stays stored very long before it gets used.

 

I have done a few raw burger patties. One I cooked right away and it was fine. The other I vacuumed sealed for week before trying. It took a little longer absorb water because of the meat getting compressed. Still it cooked okay.

 

I also did a slice of cooked pork as a test. That did turn out to be a bit tough. I probably will not try pork again.

 

I have to also add I am glad Kerry started this thread. I do not think HR will get around to starting a forum on their own. It is nice to be able to share experiences with other freeze dryer owners.

Edited December 1, 2014 by dbinokc (log)

[Tango Charlie]

So, quick question..... Anybody try freeze drying tuna? I've always canned several tuna a year, they seem pretty oily, so I wonder how it would go. Sorry, random thoughts from my brain.

And yes Kerry, everything pre-frozen in appropriate thickness... ;-)

Edited December 1, 2014 by Tango Charlie (log)

[Canon4me]

Greetings! Newbie to the forum here. I was looking for freeze dryer owners/users. I just purchased a couple of days ago a new stainless steel Harvestright freeze dryer. It hasn't shipped yet and I am anxiously awaiting it. My main thing is to store up freeze dried food for an extended emergency like WSHTF. I went this route because of the extremely long shelf life. I have been contemplating buying a #10 can sealer but haven't made up my mind yet. I know, being an early purchaser of one of these I am paying for a lot of the R&D but that is just the way it is. Anyway, feel fortunate to have found you guys and hope to learn something here.

[BGW]

Welcome Canon,

I have been preserving food for SHTF days for about 4 yrs now. I recently purchased my FD and have used it about 3 times. I am  wanting to use it to FD meats that are in my freezers. I think I will thaw and cook meat before FDing. Not real sure I am comfortable with FD raw meats. Hoping the end results will be what I am looking for. I have canned a lot of meats with really good results I too am considering getting a # 10 sealer. In addition to sealing FD foods, I  could use it for some dehydrated food that I have already done, thinking it might extend the shelf life, not sure about that, but sounds logical. I hope we can share and learn from each other with our FDing!     

[Deryn]

Tango Charlie (do you have an aviation background by chance?) - I will be trying to freeze dry all manner of seafood soon. Will report back when I do that.

Welcome to the forum, Canon. I am looking forward to hearing about (and seeing through pictures if you can do that) your adventures in freeze drying once you get set up. My motivations for buying/using a freeze-drier are varied - from just the fun of experimenting, to a way to indulge my culinary curiosities, mixing and matching fresh with 'preserved' foods - either in their FD state or reconstituted, to storing for short, medium and long term needs.

BGW - When you say you are not 'comfortable' with FD'ing raw meats, do you mean you feel they are not 'safe' or is it just the edibility (toughness, etc.) you spoke about that concerns you? Have you done more experiments since your last post?

Edited December 7, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[Tango Charlie]

Hey, no aviation background. Just military lingo for my initials. I am cooking some T-bones today and am going to FD them. My machine should be here tomorrow! Glad to see people back on the forum, thought I killed it, lol.

Anybody know if you can freeze dry meat with the bone in? My head says no, but not sure.

I will be looking forward to the seafood, tuna answer!

[BGW]

Deryn,

I have not done more meats since last post. My concern of FD raw meats is the safety thing, bacteria

and botulism.

Things I have tried since last post: Italian Green beans, sirloin steak with gravy, oatmeal patties

with gravy (kinda like chicken fried steak with no meat) Ketchup, picante sauce which I have tried and they turned out great! Have not had time to sample the other goodies yet, will let you know how it

comes out. Planning on FD Ice cream sandwichs for Christmas treats for grand kids.

[Deryn]

BGW - You may want to watch this video about Mountain House uncooked pork chops.

I think you may be correct to be concerned about raw ground meats (there is always a possibility when grinding that organisms from the outside will be mixed throughout the meat) but if Mountain House freeze-dries raw 'whole' meat then I think there is probably much less potential for contamination going that route (provided you handle your meat carefully, and perhaps even wash it off well before drying - and of course, cook well after rehydrating).

Edited December 7, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[BGW]

Thanks Deryn,

Will keep in mind if I decide to do raw meat. Enjoyed the video. Wonder how say, raw steak would be?

[Tango Charlie]

BGW, I'm going to be trying both soon. I talked to a guy at harvest right, he said he preferred his meat pre-cooked... But it's just a preference. I think really lean meats will do great raw, I think the fat ring of a good steak wouldn't freeze dry well. So, you might want to trim the fat. ... Have to play with it

I'm not certain, but in my head fat wouldn't FD well

Edited December 7, 2014 by Tango Charlie (log)

[Deryn]

High fat content foods (or just fat alone - like butter - which can cause 'explosions') and very high sugar content foods (particularly liquids and chocolate by itself - but gummy bears are fun and not sugar free) do not generally freeze dry well.

You can see a discussion about these things and proof of concept pictures for some experiments people tried along those lines if you review this whole thread from the beginning.

Meats with fat on the outside should be trimmed, but, it is possible/probable, unless perhaps something is marbled to the degree that true wagyu beef might be, that marbling, as long as it is not present as thick lines or large patches of fat, won't prevent decent freeze drying no matter what kind of meat it may be. Of course, lean meat is always a better bet than fatty meat though I would say.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Deryn (log)