Freeze Dryers and Freeze Dried Food (Part 1)

[dbinokc]

Peggy,

Sorry to hear about the damage to the freeze dryer. It must be really frustrating, especially with Christmas approaching. HR boxes them very well. It must have taken a good fall or been run through with a forklift to damage it.

[Deryn]

Peggy - I too am sorry your FD was damaged and the excitement of trying it out is being delayed. I agree with dbinokc though - HR packs them really well so someone at the shipping company must have messed up badly. I hope the replacement will arrive safely and quickly.

My FD was shipped to NC and then it sat in my truck for weeks (bumping around town, up and down hills, around sharp curves as I did errands, etc.) unsecured and then made a 2k trip with me to Nova Scotia. I FINALLY got to try my first load last night (after having it in my possession for over a month) - and it worked like a charm and was not damaged in the least after all that travel.

My only comment is that the instructions could be a bit better for that first run - explaining better what to expect - or perhaps we need to have a network of FD users so we can 'phone-a-friend' at 2 a.m. A BIG thank you to Kerry who answered my late night PM's to reassure me when I panicked that the 'drying time countdown' didn't display and didn't display as the hours passed, so I was worried that, though the freezing had gone fine, the drying cycle was not going to work. And in my case it took much longer than '10-20 minutes' (more like an hour) to reach a top pressure above 600 and much longer again for it to begin 'cycling' down to around the 500 mark (and still the countdown time didn't display till I set it manually).

Also note that the pump is loud - and contrary to the impression I got when reading the instructions - it doesn't 'cycle on and off', once it comes on, the noise/action is constant till you turn off the FD to remove your load. I need to rethink where I put this beast because though I slept through it fine, by morning the drone was driving me nuts. The instructions need to be updated as well if we are all now getting the newer pumps with no evacuation 'tower'. Searched a while for that before I realized there isn't one any more. If you have a handy guy around the house to set up the pump that might be intuitive but I bet it is not for all of us. Luckily though, those were my only surprises and everything came out beautifully in the end. I am only really commenting for those who haven't gotten their FDs yet and still have to go through their first time using this new machine. Once you have passed that point, my notes are probably extraneous since you will know what to expect.

I didn't take pics this first run through but I dried shitaki mushrooms, thai chilis, snow pea pods, lemongrass, kaffir lime leaves, and some starfruit slices. Chose those for 2 reasons - I had had them for a week and was afraid they were about to go bad and I can't get replacements within 10 hours drive of me, but also because I figured they were mostly low water items to experiment with for the first run. And I guess I was right about the latter because I doubt the whole cycle took even 16 hours and didn't leave much frost on the interior. I set the drying time to end when I had gotten up in the morning (Kerry's advice again) because I didn't want it to sit there for hours unattended - and that worked great but was overkill in terms of drying. The pressure was down to 60 torr before I shut it down manually and removed the contents.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[peggy w]

Thanks guys, I knew all of you would understand my frustration! HR has already shipped me a replacement and it will be here on Tuesday. They were very quick to respond and send a replacement. Gotta love good service! The machine looked like someone hit it in the side with a fork lift. Even the tray holder was broken loose and bent.

[Kerry Beal]

Dill pickles are not crisp when reconstituted - and they remain very salty!

[Chocolot]

Finally have time to go through the bag of FD goodies Kerry brought me in Vegas a few weeks ago. WOW! I think I have enough for a few weeks of meals. Just to name a few: peaches, raspberries, strawberries, apricots, pineapple, okra, green beans, kimchi, pickles, limes, lemons, oranges, mandarins, grated cheese, ice cream, jello (yum), tofu? curds? red peppers, corn.

 

Thanks Kerry. What a treat.

[peggy w]

Thanks Kerry, for your update on the dill pickles. I was wondering about how they would be rehydrated

[JimR]

Thought I would share some of my test info on some FD'ed foods. The more information you have about different foods the easier it might be to decide what to try and freeze dry. I would also recommend that after test FD’ing a food that you test it dry (except raw meats), rehydrant it and test, and cook it in a style you would eat it to determine what uses that FD’ed food could be used for. Everyone’s tastes are different so what is acceptable for one may not be for another. You might find out that a food is only good eaten dry, but does not rehydrate well. I recommend that you test FD a tray of a food and test BEFORE you process alot of a food only to find out that what you FD'ed won't work for you.

Something to think about; so you won’t be disappointed when you rehydrate a FD’ed food remember it will be about the same texture as if you freezed it and then thawed it. Some raw foods don’t do well this way.

Hope this info helps in deciding what you want to FD and to you who have not purchased a FD’er yet as to if you want one (however, I do suggest to get one of these if you have a need to preserve food).

Potatoes

Raw sliced (1/4"): FD'ed good. Eating dry was OK. Rehydrated to a tough texture (20 mins in water). Not good eating “raw“. Cooked up dry and hard.

Cooked sliced (½“): Cooked in microwave to 80% done. FD’ed good. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated  good (in water for 15 mins). Eating after rehydration was good with good texture. Fried up great.

Mashed (boiled and mashed, nothing added): FD’ed good. Eating dry was OK. Rehydrated well (for test used water sprayer to slowly add water. Need more testing to make this easier). Eating after rehydration was good with good texture. Haven’t heated. Will try using milk as part of rehydating.

Mashed (boiled, mashed, milk and butter added): Potatoes not done in one FD’ing cycle. Processed again. Eating dry was OK. Rehydrated well (same as above). Eating after rehydrating was good with good texture. Haven’t heated yet. Flavor not much better than above and took much longer to FD. I would suggest to just mash and FD. Then use milk and butter as part of rehydration.

Meats

Beef (cooked, ground). FD’ed great in single cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated good with good texture (in water for 10 mins). Use anywhere ground beef is used.

Beef (cooked, ½ “ patties). FD’ed good but not in one cycle. Some patties had “cool” spots so better safe than sorry so ran them through again. Might try thinner patties to finish in one cycle. If you want a thicker burger use two patties like Wendy‘s. Rehydrated good with good texture (in water for 5 mins). Fried for 5 mins. Very Good.

Beef (RAW, ½” patties). FD’ed good but not in one cycle. Some patties had “cool” spots so better safe than sorry so ran through again. Might try thinner patties. If you want a thicker burger use two patties. Rehydrated good with good texture (in water for 10 mins). Fried, as with all raw meat. Very Good.

Chicken (Breast, cooked): Boiled and cut into ½” slices against the grain. FD’ed good in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in seconds (15 to 30) with good texture.

Ham (cubes, ready to eat but not cooked): ½” cubes. FD’ed good in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in a minute or less with good texture. Fried up was just like fried leftover ham.

Ham (slices, ready to eat but not cooked): ½” slices. FD’ed good but one had “cold“ spot. Cut was not against the grain but at 45 degree angle to the grain. Maybe if cut against the grain (like the chicken and turkey) would finish in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in a minute or less with good texture. Fried up was just like fried leftover ham.

Pork Loin (cooked, sliced): Baked and cut into ½” slices against the grain. FD’ed good in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in seconds  (30 to 45) with good texture.

Tuna (canned in water): Why would you FD canned tuna? Well, let’s say you had cans of tuna that were at or over their “good by date”. Thought I would see what would happen FD’ing the tuna. It FD’ed good in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in seconds (15 to 30) with good texture and flavor.

Turkey (Breast, cooked): Baked and cut into ½” slices against the grain. FD’ed good in one cycle. Eating dry was good. Rehydrated in seconds (15 to 30) with good texture.

If anyone has any comments, questions, or suggestions please post them. Fruits, Veggies, and Misc on next post.

Happy FD’ing

[Kerry Beal]

Jim - did your raw potatoes go black at all after rehydrating?  I was given to understand that they should be blanched.  

[peggy w]

Jim,

great info, the more I learn the more my list of things to try changes. My FD will be here next week, can't wait!

[JimR]

Jim - did your raw potatoes go black at all after rehydrating?  I was given to understand that they should be blanched.  

 

Kerry - A few of them turned a little brown. My wife and I were talking about blanching different raw fruits and veggies to get better results. I think when FD'ing foods you need to think of how they will be used. If you just want to rehydrate, heat, and eat then cooked food would be better. However, if you will be using the food to "cook" with, i.e. soups, stews, etc., the raw stuff might be better. I can see doing both raw and cooked of some foods for that reason.

With meats the advantage of cooked is that they can be eaten dry (make sure you have water to drink) or rehydrated, heat, and eat. With raw meat you have to make sure your package is marked RAW and that meat will only be eatable AFTER it's been properly cooked. Again, I can see having both cooked and raw meats on my shelf.

Sorry about the continued warnings on the RAW meat but I want everyone to understand the proper handling of FD'ed RAW meat.

And thanks to you for all of the information you have given the rest of us.

[JimR]

Jim,

great info, the more I learn the more my list of things to try changes. My FD will be here next week, can't wait!

 

Peggy - Unfortunately the more you want to try different things the longer it's going to take to get all of them done. And the more you test FD the more things you think of to FD. We use a broth product paste that needs refrigeration after it is opened. It is much better that any of the other "dry" broth products are. So, at some point I will try FD'ing that. That was not on my rader until after my 8th session. It's a snowball going down hill but you will have fun. And as someone else said, this will be your longest wait you every had. We got ours the day before Thanksgiving. I spent two days plowing snow so the semi could get into my place. This included plowing part of a pasture so the truck to unload at my basement.

A tip: Don't do whole sauage links or beef hot dogs. Fat was all over the inside of the chamber and the tray holder. What mess to clean up.

[peggy w]

Jim R

you are so right! I will be trying things constantly till there is nothing left to experiment with!

[Kerry Beal]

Between the trip to Vegas and the hubby rewiring the basement I haven't been doing any freeze drying for a while.  Finally fired it up - and this am pulled out the following.

 

 

Some guacamole and some apricot spread.

 

 

Dulce de leche.

 

 

Wild blueberries.

[Trish]

I got my FD at Christmas and I have processed avocado, raw southern scrambled eggs (type that comes in carton), carrots, celery sticks, pumpkin seeds, and lemon slices. Had to run everything twice but it turned out nice. Carrots were kind of rubbery but tasted normal. I will use them in stews etc. The pumpkin seeds were ones that I boiled, salted, and baked...they turned out very nice. I learned my lesson...put down parchment paper...lol...

  I spoke with HR concerning the best place to purchase vacuum pump oil and he said that Amazon had the best prices and you can purchase 4 gallons which will last about 1 year. Here is what I purchased for just under $80.00 and it has free shipping.

Robinair 13204 Premium High Vacuum Pump Oil - 4- one gallon jugs

 

 

When you are FDing cooked meat do you have to rinse the fat off of it before you process it? I worry about it going rancid.

Trish

Edited December 28, 2014 by Trish (log)

[Kerry Beal]

Welcome Trish.  

 

Pretty much the same deal I got on the oil from Amazon.ca

 

I'll let someone who does a lot of meat answer the question on the fat.

[Deryn]

Welcome to eGullet and FD'ing, Trish.

I got that same oil too from Amazon.

Thanks for the pumpkin seed info/idea .. they sound delicious.

Kerry - thanks for the wild blueberry picture. I have some in the freezer and they will be going in soon - had hoped they weren't large enough to require cutting in half like the grapes or a double run.

Edited December 28, 2014 by Deryn (log)

[JimR]

When you are FDing cooked meat do you have to rinse the fat off of it before you process it? I worry about it going rancid.

Trish

 

 

Trish, I would recommend you remove as much fat as possible from the meat before FD'ing it. Fat doesn't FD well and can make a mess in the machine that you don't want to clean up. Yes, I would wooruy about it going rancid as the oils in the fat do not FD. This is why they do not suggest FD'ing sauage links or other high fat processed meats. Hope this helps

[JimR]

Kerry,

Attached is a pic of what I am talking about.

Tighten the rings down and them back off about a quarder of a turn.I run the vacuum cycle for 30 seconds on my machine.

Pint size jars I can actually stand up in the vacmaster.

 

You could do something simliar with the HR itself. Just put the jars in the chamber and manually operate the vscuum pump

 

The only thing is to be real sure the jars have no cracks. I had a cracked jar that had a "blow in" and got glass all over the food inside .

II had to throw that whole jar away.

 

Has anyone tried to use the FD'er to vacuum seal Mason jars as mentioned above? You can put 8 quart jars or 10 pint jars on one of the trays and insert that into the chamber (without the tray rack). Then manually run the vacuum pump to seal the jars.

 

The big question is, pull a vacuum down to what mTORR? Does anyone have a conversion from mTORR to Inches of vacuum. I believe a Foodsaver vacuum system brings the jar down to a vacuum of 23-26 inches.

 

This would be great as you could do 8 to 10 jars at a time. Any help on this would be great. Thanks.

[Kerry Beal]

I have a chamber vac - so haven't had to try that.

[dbinokc]

There are various conversion calculators out there that can give you this value. A quick search shows that 1000 millitorr is about .04 inches are mercury.

Putting that into terms of bigger numbers being a larger vacuum would be in the 29.8 inch range.  One atmosphere is 29.92 inches mercury. Essentially the HR machine pulls a much better vacuum than my chamber vac and leaves the Foodsaver in the dust.

[Kerry Beal]

So I suspect the lids would be even more challenging to remove than those on a mason jar in the chamber vac!

[dbinokc]

This is how I decide what sealing method to use.

 

Items I use frequently  just keep in a non vacuum sealed mason jar. The most important thing is just to keep the food from absorbing moisture.

Items I use infrequently or within 12 months I vacuum seal the mason jar. That keeps out the moisture and minimizes any oxidation.

If I was planning to keep items for a longer term, them I would consider mylar with oxygen absorbers. So far I have not done any mylar storage. Everything I have done gets used too fast!

 

Another option is a chamber vac with nitrogen backfill. I would love to get one of these, but I have no place I could put one or the tank.

[BGW]

Has anyone tried to use the FD'er to vacuum seal Mason jars as mentioned above? You can put 8 quart jars or 10 pint jars on one of the trays and insert that into the chamber (without the tray rack). Then manually run the vacuum pump to seal the jars.

 

The big question is, pull a vacuum down to what mTORR? Does anyone have a conversion from mTORR to Inches of vacuum. I believe a Foodsaver vacuum system brings the jar down to a vacuum of 23-26 inches.

 

This would be great as you could do 8 to 10 jars at a time. Any help on this would be great. Thanks.

This is a good idea! Do you have any feel for how long to run the vac pump for sealing the jars, have you had a chance to try this?

[JimR]

This is a good idea! Do you have any feel for how long to run the vac pump for sealing the jars, have you had a chance to try this?

 

I tried my tests today. I did multiple tests at 900, 850, & 800 mTORR. I want to see if the seals hold and open them to see the amount of vacuum they appear to have compaired to the Food saver. I'll report back in a few days with info. If it works it will be nice to seal 8 to 10 jars at one time with a deeper vacuum.

[BGW]

I tried my tests today. I did multiple tests at 900, 850, & 800 mTORR. I want to see if the seals hold and open them to see the amount of vacuum they appear to have compaired to the Food saver. I'll report back in a few days with info. If it works it will be nice to seal 8 to 10 jars at one time with a deeper vacuum.

Thanks Jim, Anxious to see what the outcome is.

 

I FD  char broiled angus burgers ( 30 Patties). they were very hard with sharp edges,  I put them in lunch bags, and then vac sealed in plastic bags.  It was amazing how much grease soaked into the paper bag. Needless to say they will be eaten within 6 mo or so. I tried one ( soaked overnight ) and it was very good! Looking forward to FDing pork and kraut and black eyed peas from New years day meal.  A side note with vac. sealing in jars, I have found if the FD food  is powdery,  it seems to get under the seal and causes failure sometimes as long as several days later.  I put coffee filters over the food and then vac seal, so far, so good.