After the £450 meal...the £25.00 box of chocs

[Andy Lynes]

Renowned Brussels based choclatier Pierre Marcolini has opened up a shop at 6 Lancer Square off Kensington Church Street. A 250g box of his chocolates, made from his very own chocolat de couveture created from cocoa beans he has sourced himself will set you back a mere £24.99.

He claims to be the only chocolatier in the UK operating at such a level, all others using industrialised chocolate bases with a percentage of vegetable fat in them. Has anyone tried these chocs as yet, or is intending to do so. Are they really worth £100 per kilo? Can you really taste the difference?

[macrosan]

I recently bought a 200gm box of Leonidas chocolates (in London) for £10, and I thought them over-priced, but these are double that price

I'm not a great fan of Belgian chocolates anyway (just not my taste) but I guess Marcolini is not trying to provide value for money in the normal sense, he's offering something unique, that maybe only he can conceive and deliver, and is deliberately charging a premium price for that. Not dissimilar to Sketch, perhaps. I have absolutely no problem with this. If people are willing to pay the price, then good luck to the man. And if thwey're not, well in a free market he will go out of business, and that's also OK. It's not as if he's conning anyone about what he has on offer, nor that he's taking unfair advantage of a monopoly of an essential product.

Wiull people be able to tell the difference between these premium chocs and other "lesser" brands ? I must admit that I'd like to see a blind tasting done, and I woulkdn't mind participating myself But as I've said on other occasions, it doesn't always matter whether people can tell the difference, provided they're willing to believe in it.

[Bloated]

I have been to the new shop a couple of times since it opened and bought and tasted many of their chocolates. They are good chocolates- in London probably only L'Artisan du Chocolat are better- but then the selection is more 'boring' there.

They charge 60p per chocolate (ie not sold by weight) which works out cheaper than Charbonnel et Walker and Rococo for instance. I can only imagine the £24.99/250g is in a fancy container- but I have not seen this offer in the shop. Fortnum & Mason charge about £55/kg for PM chocolates.

The French chocolatiers are not easy to find in London but I have recently noticed Bernard Dufoux available pre-packed in La Fromagerie for about £60/kg. I did not buy though as £32 (525g) is too much to pay without having tasted.

PS In Brussels Pierre Marcolini is less than half the price it is here- so clearly the London location is a big factor in the price.

The most expensive chocolates I have seen in London are an Italian brand Slitti, £85/kg at F&M.

[Miss J]

Blind taste test? Sounds like a job for one of the pastry chefs to me. (If they give the thumbs up, I might be willing to shell out. Once. For a special occasion.)

[Steve Plotnicki]

But $40 a pound (the rough equivelent) is what they charge at places like Maison au Chocolat or Neuhaus for their chocolates. And while I can't comment on whether Marcolini is in their class, the price isn't really shocking.

[Charlene Leonard]

But $40 a pound (the rough equivelent) is what they charge at places like Maison au Chocolat or Neuhaus for their chocolates. And while I can't comment on whether Marcolini is in their class, the price isn't really shocking.

I trust you will be ordering a kilo or two for us British egulleteers then?

[Nick]

Are they really worth £100 per kilo? Can you really taste the difference?

Since Andy's post here, I've been wondering about the sort of person who would buy chocolates at £100 per kilo. Would they, when offering a taste to a guest, be reluctant to say how much they cost for being thought a fool? Or could they not help but gush, "These cost me £100 a kilo."?

Edited January 3, 2003 by Nickn (log)

[Kikujiro]

Macro, I think I could differentiate between Leonidas and the class of chocolate made by, say, Maison or Artisan. I'm not, like you, a huge fan of Belgian chocs anyway but I confess I haven't tried the really recherche ones.

Does anyone know what Artisan say about their sourcing, given Marcolini's claims? What is Artisan's price per kg? I've certainly bought Maison (and other French) and Artisan (and, years ago, Gerard Ronay, much missed) chocs on several occasions, and feel I'm getting what I pay for.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I've been wondering about the sort of person who would buy chocolates at £100 per kilo.

What a question. Lots of people on the site that's who. The same people who pay between 200-300 euros for a tasting menu at 3 star restaurants.

[Beachfan]

Not only French. Payard in NYC is $48/lb and worth every single penny and calorie. Might be as good as the Parisian's (Maison du Chocolat and others).

I think there are few luxury items that compare to what you can get for the price of a 1/4lb of them.

Regarding Belgian Chocolates:

Leonidas are not near the top league

Neuhaus is excellent

Wittamer is as good as it gets.

[cabrales]

Would they, when offering a taste to a guest, be reluctant to say how much they cost for being thought a fool? Or could they not help but gush, "These cost me £100 a kilo."?

"They" might well neither undertake either course of action. Their guests might be sufficiently knowledgeable that the guests could tell the difference, or the host of the chocolate might not care whether the guests knew.

The host would only be embarassed to disclose the cost "for being thought a fool" if (1) the chocolates were not of sufficiently high quality relative to lower-priced chocolates, in the *host's* mind, (2) the host believed the guests could tell the difference between high and low quality chocolates, and (3) the host cared about what his guests thought *about the host* (instead of being confident in the host's own choice).

It's like buying a diamond, in a way. Diamonds of very high quality can be very small, and there can be trade-offs, for any given price level, between size and the other attributes. I wouldn't chose a low quality, but large diamond over a small, high quality one. I don't need others to know my diamond is so pristine. I just need to know. It's the same reason I refuse to wear imitation jewelry.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[cabrales]

Further thoughts:

-- If the guests are so limited in their analytical abilities that they judge a host who is purportedly a good friend (the case where the host would most care about the views of the guests) based on his choice of chocolates, those guests are not particularly attractive as friends to begin with, in general.

-- The guests and the host might see the sampling of the chocolate as a process, with the cost of the chocolate being the cost of undergoing the process -- without assurances about a good outcome (i.e., more delicious chocolate). In this light, having tasted even bad chocolate would partially justify the cost of the chocolate.

On the Pounds 450 meal, note that it is for two people.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[Suzanne F]

Oh, Nick, the rich are different from you and me.

[Wilfrid]

I sometimes wonder where people find all these bargains. This is a link to the second retailer I found by searching for chocolates in New York. I have never heard of them, and have no idea what the quality is, but just look at typical prices per pound:

The price of chocolates.

[Nick]

Cabrales - Thanks for your (as always) complete explanation. Since I don't eat chocolate and have no more appreciation for it than I would an expensive bottle of wine - the whole thing is rather baffling to me.

Steve - I can understand blowing a couple of hundred euros for a tasting menu at a three star joint (should I ever be so lucky as to find myself in one), but chocolate?

Suzanne - No shit!

[Kikujiro]

A nice box of chocolates is a much more affordable indulgence than a three star tasting menu. (I'm not saying better 'value'.)

[Wilfrid]

Nick, the chocolates seem to cost about 50 Euros a pound. On the random web-site I just pulled up, chocolates of no particular distinction cost about 40 Euros a pound. All looks about right to me. I don't know when I last bought fancy chocolates, so I am open to correction.

[cabrales]

Further thoughts:

I'm not aware of the practices at the particular chocolatier in question, but in many cases chocolates can be purchased in smaller quantities than a pound. They are frequently available by piece for certain varieties of chocolates, with weighing done in a precise manner. Thus, a small amount can be sampled at limited cost.

The host, if she thought that appreciation of chocolates (like any other food item) was subjective, might not worry that the guests have a different subjective assessment of the quality of her chocolates. For example, I have a very limited ability to discern differences among dark chocolates and do not particularly like chocolate. If somebody invited me to a dinner and I did not appreciate the chocolate, my host should not infer anything negative about the chocolate (nor about me). She might take the position that preferences are subjective.

Edited January 3, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[magnolia]

Having recently written an article about this (plug plug !), I had to do some extensive, grueling research on the subject. Before this research, I was a chocolate lover but not very 'knowledgable' about what goes into chocolate, how it's made, etc. Now I understand a bit more why X tastes the way it does, and how it got that way. High quality chocolate is like any other luxury that commands a premium - wine, spirits, art, etc. - preference is subjective, and the item is subject to somewhat ambiguous markup over and above the cost of the ingredients, labor, expensive rent, decoration, advertising, etc.

However, what I can tell you is that *in my opinion* - after having tasted chocolates from all the premium chocolatiers in London and Paris (most of whom use Valrhona couverture), including the dept. store 'own label' brands and the premium ranges they offer, as well as the supermarket store own label and premium brands - Pierre Marconlini and Artisan du Chocolat are my top two for truffles and filled chocolates - special occasion stuff - in London. Dufour and Bernachon, and a couple of others in France. And yes, you pay for it. Rococo makes 'fun' chocolates, their base is good quality and they are very artistic. But you also can get Green & Blacks and El Rey, for example, at supermarkets in London for not much more than a large Cadbury bar, and they are wonderful as well. I am not a milk chocolate fan and I like Green & Black's milk choc. And "Ed l'Epicier" - that grotty supermarket in Paris - has a good own-label bar for a pittance too.

Talking to someone like Pierre Marcolini is like talking to an obsessed artist, he gets this intense look on his face and he wants you to love his product - not just to buy it, but to *love* it. Buying his chocolates is like buying into that experience, and chocolate fans will pay whatever it takes to find their 'ultimate' chocolate. Either you think it's worth it, or you don't.

Edited January 7, 2003 by magnolia (log)

[Andy Lynes]

Thanks very much for the informed opinion, is the article available online?

BTW, anyone considering dining at The Square might like to know that petit fours take the form of a choice from a bloody great tray of chocs from Artisan du Chocolat.

[Kikujiro]

I think we've been round this block before, but Artisan supply quite a few high-end places, no?

[Andy Lynes]

I don't know actually, but I would not be suprised if that were the case. It's a relatively cheap way of trying them though, if you think of them as freebies at the end of the meal, which of course they're not really.

[Matthew Grant]

Artisan are quite tight lipped about the restaurants they supply, but will confirm that they supply the tobacco flavoured chocolates to The Fat Duck.

[Tonyfinch]

BTW, anyone considering dining at The Square might like to know that petit fours take the form of a choice from a bloody great tray of chocs from Artisan du Chocolat.

Right. Am there tonight. Good oh

[Andy Lynes]

Oh yes, I remember now, we have discussed this before. I'm wondering if the chocolates I had at The Merchant House recently were Artisan, as they were similar to those at Fat Duck (not tobacco of course) and The Square. I'll e mail Shaun and ask him.