Q&A -- Understanding Stovetop Cookware (2009-)

[David A. Goldfarb]

If you have a chance to find some Mauviel Induc'Inox, I strongly suggest you acquire some.

I was in Zabar's yesterday and noticed that they have quite a few Induc'Inox pieces on the shelves. I don't have an induction range, so I'm not interested in them myself, but they seem quite well made with the same cast iron handles generally, at least for the long handled pieces I looked at, as their professional copperware. They are also advertised to work well with traditional heat sources, but I haven't tested that myself.

The Zabar's website only lists a small fraction of what they carry, so if you can't stop in the store, it's probably best to call them. Phone number, etc., at--

http://www.zabars.com/housewares/Housewares,default,sc.html

If the line is discontinued, you can probably bargain with them a bit, particularly if you take a display piece after the rest of the stock is sold, or if you are getting a few different pieces. I've gotten some great deals there on discounted tin-lined Mauviel copperware, which hasn't been discontinued by the manufacturer, but Zabar's has apparently decided only to carry the stainless lined versions.

Edited July 19, 2009 by David A. Goldfarb (log)

[v. gautam]

I have a question for those who have used/compared Vollrath, Paderno G1000 and Sitram Profeserie or Catering lines for the rondeau/braziers, 7.6 qts, 11.4 qts and above. There is also a Paderno GG1100 series, much more expensive than the 1000 line.

Vollrath 77760 series is 8 gauge stainless steel, i.e. o.1719 inches sheet metal. The 44760 series is 16 gauge, 0.0625 in, and I am not interested in this.

Vollrath also has an interesting large size Stir fry pan, a round-bottomed handled wok, for all practical purposes.

Thank you for your input & advice.

Gautam.

[v. gautam]

Hello Turbocooker,

Without confounding your problems, may I add my 2 cents? With stovetop cookware, your personal style of cooking, the cuisines you prefer, the number of people you generally cook for, and the maximum numbers you occasionally need to cook for with aplomb, all have a bearing on what you need to purchase.

Fat Guy [steven], SL Kinsey, David Goldfarb C. Sapidus or I may each enjoy food & cooking immensely but each will be cooking a different profile, so to speak, AND for a different audience. Hence, for each, a different set & type of cookware will prove ideal.

So please try to figure these parameters out calmly and rationally, first. If you love European or Dutch-style cooking, the combination you end up with will surely be different than if your tastes incline towards the Far East or South or South-Eastern Asia. Your friends will be willing to sit down with you, and there will be many here to walk you through your choices piece by piece.

You can buy things also piece by piece from many sources, mixing and matching accoring to bargains available and your precise needs: Bridge Kitchenware,NJ; China Fair, Boston; Gala Source Restaurant Supply, etc.

No need to buy a pig in a poke: you may find a Sitram piece here a better bargain, a Paderno piece there, another Sitram piece at Amazon, a pressure cooker ditto at their clearance sales. Of course, you may be a lucky person who can pay without bothering about price, in which case I can certainly give you excellent counsel that you will never regret, and it involves neither All-Clad nor the copper twins from Europe (Falk =supremely wonderful if you can afford!!).

Edited August 23, 2009 by v. gautam (log)

[Smithy]

I did a major "uh-oh" to a beloved stockpot and am looking for some insight about what to choose for its replacement, when I get around to replacing it. I have (still) a favorite Revere Ware aluminum-disk stainless steel stockpot. A few weeks ago I burnt a stew while taking a shower...and oh, how badly I burnt it...so thoroughly, completely did I burn it that the interior bottom built up too much carbon to provide any convective cooling, apparently, and that led to a meltdown of the bottom layers. I finally figured out the extent of the damage when I realized that the (finally cool) pot was no longer level because the disks on the bottom were delaminating! All this on an electric-coil stove. I had no idea it was possible! (And no, the stew could not be salvaged.) I'd be posting this, perhaps, on the thread of mistakes never to repeat, but I have a practical question.

The pot actually is still usable, now that I've scoured the interior thoroughly, but the bottom disk is no longer intact. Although the (roughly 1/2") aluminum disk is still firmly attached to the stainless pot, the outermost thin disk of stainless steel (1/8" thick?) has warped and peeled away from part of the bottom surface. The upshot is that this pot would be fine over a gas flame, useless over an inductive surface, and may work reasonably well despite its appearance over my existing stove. But it wobbles and I may decide it has to go.

My question is this: if and when I choose to replace the pot, would I be better off looking for something clad up the sides of the pot rather than the disk bottom? I've been quite happy with the disk bottom for the purposes to which I've put this pot - stews, soups, pasta. In another life I started spending oodles of money on All-Clad and Le Creuset, all of which I love; however, I'm not sure the extra money for cladding will be worth it for a stock pot. I know this topic has been addressed (perhaps more than once) in this Q&A session; however, I'm hoping for a quick pointer because I can't find an outline view.

[Richard Kilgore]

I see nothing to be gained by anything more than an aluminum disk in a stock pot. But you may have to give up showers while making stew.

[tim]

My question is this: if and when I choose to replace the pot, would I be better off looking for something clad up the sides of the pot rather than the disk bottom?

Hi,

I will add to the consensus that a stockpot with a disc bottom is better than a fully clad stockpot. I do think you should look for a stockpot with an extra thick disk

Sitram Profiserie Stock Pot with 8mm disc bottom These are available in a range of sizes.

tim

[Dave the Cook]

Peeps who love All-Clad will love this special offer: 4-Qt Deep Sauté Pan with Splatter Screen and Lid. Decent price for A-C, and an imporvement on their usual saute design, which I think is too shallow.

[messyjessy]

Samuel- Thanks for the wonderful information about cookware! I’ve been searching up and down trying to find this sort of information in one easy-to-process lesson. I’ve spent the last couple nights reading and reviewing the information in the lecture, but have not yet had time to read through the entire length of the forum posts. I know a lot more now than I did, but it’s just so much information to digest. So I do have a couple questions, but I hope I am not repeating earlier requests!

For some background, my boyfriend and I have semi-recently finished our undergraduate studies in engineering and have moved onto graduate school and wonderful (paid!) research positions. Though we’re of “appropriate” age, for reasons outside the scope of this question we are choosing to remain happily unmarried. The obvious downside is that we now don’t have the large gifting occasion that warrants gifts of cookware! Anyway, we’re replacing my long worn-out, disgusting Circulon hand-me-downs using our new grown-up salaries. Our budget is large, but we don’t want to just throw money at every cookware and find out what works by trial and error. Unfortunately, our old set had pieces that were just badly sized or unnecessary, and it didn’t leave me with a lot of pieces that I knew I wanted to duplicate. I know what I don’t want, but am not quite certain what options it leaves me with.

Questions:

1) I know that this depends a lot on cooking style, cuisine preferences, # of people, etc, but can you list some pans that you might expect to see on your typical registry “starter” set? I’d like to know about basic pieces that I’d likely get a lot of use from, and have some reference for commonly used, practical sizes.

2) We do already have a cast iron skillet that we intend to keep, and would like a dutch oven. For the rest I was thinking the Paderno GG stuff for the disk-bottom applications, and All Clad MC2 (from CookwareNMore) for the straight gauge pans. And also a Wearever nonstick skillet for an egg pan. Do you think there might be any better options for similar money? Oh, we cook on electric and gas, and I don’t care about induction readiness and obvious aren’t looking for a set.

3) I’m also curious to hear about the favorite “dream pans” people have. Since this is a gift to us, we might like to splurge on a few pans for prettiness sake or for increased performance from copper, so please feel free to let me know your ideal pan/maker for various applications.

4) I've thought about keeping a nonstick saucepan around for making quick hot cereal in the morning. I always manage to get these very stuck in stainless pans and don’t want to have to scrub before leaving home in the morning. Any recommendations for brands/materials/alternative solutions?

Thanks so much for any and all guidance, I am glad to learn from your experiences/mistakes!

Jessica

Edited December 11, 2009 by messyjessy (log)

[slkinsey]

Hi Jessica,

I have two usual responses to this kind of inquiry:

First, I think it's a bad idea to purchase a whole lot of cookware at the same time. You inevitably end up making some wrong decisions for your uses and/or spending money on pieces you won't really use.

Second, I think it's the wrong approach to say "I want a such-and-such piece of cookware." That is putting the cart before the horse.

Rather, I think the process you want to have is to think about what it is that you do (or want to do) the most frequently, and which you feel is insufficiently served by your current battery of cookware. Once you know what it is that you want to do better, you have a basis upon which to make the critical decisions: (1) what is the appropriate cookware shape to accomplish this task (or tasks); (2) what is my budget; (3) what is the best materials design for this cookware and my contemplated tasks that is within my budget; and (4) what are my other considerations (what kind of stove do I have, do I want something I can toss in the dishwasher, how many portions am I cooking at the same time, etc.). When you answer those questions, you have the ability to go out and get the piece of cookware that really suits your needs. And then, later on when you have some more money to spend and you find that there is something else you really want to do and can't to your satisfaction with your current battery, you go through the process again.

Otherwise, it is my observation that there are some critical cookware purchasing errors that most people make.

The first is in spending big money on cookware that is massive overkill for the use in which that cookware is typically employed. For example, most everyone uses a saucepan or tall saucepan of around 3 quarts for things like making and reheating brothy soups; steaming, blanching and boiling vegetables; etc. There is simply no reason that one needs an expensive clad straight gauge pan or a professional-quality heavy disk bottom pan for this. Perfectly adequate stainless pans with a reasonably thick aluminum base can be found at stores such as Target and Bed, Bath & Beyond for a reasonable price. Hey, get three of them for the price of one All-Clad!

Another common error is purchasing a piece of cookware on the assumption that it will be useful, when it really isn't. This is true, for example, of most any frypan or saute pan smaller than around 11 inches in diameter. Sure, the smaller sizes may be useful in commercial kitchens where the cooks are preparing only one individual portion at a time. But how often are you going to fry a single chicken cutlet or one serving of sauteed Brussels sprouts?

A related error is purchasing a piece of cookware on the assumption that having that cookware will motivate you to cook certain things in it. For example, I see that you want an enameled cast iron casserole (aka, French oven, Dutch oven, etc.). Why? What is it that you want to make that will be so great in this kind of pan? Unless you have a reason to know that you want to make a lot of long-cooked braises and stews and sauces, frankly a Le Creuset-type pan isn't likely to be all that useful for you. Yes, plenty of people love theirs, but most of them would really be better off with a disk-bottom rondeau.

[messyjessy]

Thanks again Samuel. I understand all your points and agree wholly. The problem stems from feeling ill-served by EVERYTHING we currently have (the sizes and condition of most everything is woefully inadequate), and being overwhelmed with options. Your thoughts on the small frypans are especially illuminating, as it is largely that kind of thing we are currently equipped with. I don't want to outfit all our needs at once, but just get some solid basics and work from there as we progress through new cooking adventures. I just hoped to start by knowing what 3-4 pans other people find most useful. The saucepan is noted.

The dutch oven is maybe the one thing that I thought was well-suited to my needs, but I admit to also having been seduced by Staub. I neglected to mention we actually have one currently, but it feels quite small to me (3-4 qt?). I do prefer to use it for stews/braises/chili mostly, but baked beans too, and sometimes bread. It is too small to accommodate large meats or stew and soup in quantity for later use, both of which I would like to do. Am I one of the ignorant Rondeau-needy?

I will attempt to think of the things we like to prepare on a regular basis, and work through your suggested questions to come up with well-informed choices.

Edited December 11, 2009 by messyjessy (log)

[slkinsey]

It's really difficult to come up with a universal recommendation, because cooking preferences vary so widely. Some people could simply not do without a wok. I haven't owned one in 15 years, and have no plans to acquire one. On the other hand, I cook a lot of pasta so for us a stock pot with pasta insert large enougo to submerge and cook a pound of spaghetti is a must-have piece of cooware, as is a saute pan suitable for preparing a quick sauce and finishing the pasta together with the sauce. For other people, these would not be high on their list.

[messyjessy]

I had to laugh about the wok, because that's another hand-me-down we have that is incredibly out of place in our home. We end up using it on lazy nights to make frozen bag one-skillet dinners, because it's the only pan we own that's large enough!

Just out of curiosity, what size stockpot meets your needs? We do a lot of pasta dishes as well. I've been waffling about using a 6-8 qt vessel for pasta (hidden use for a rondeau?) and getting a big stockpot for stock/corn later, or getting something 8-12 qt that might be useful if not ideal for all of the above. I live in the midwest, so the corn pot will definitely be needed, but not so much during the dead of winter.

[Luckyjax]

Hi,

Ok I am a newbie. I have been reading and studying everything I can get my hands on about cookware for over two years... I have to say Samuel, your "Take" on understanding and explicitly, scientifically explaining, and specifically showing us how and why certain and different cookware with pictures was a dream come true for me because I learn best by visual and substanative information. You also have a healthy scepticism for info put out by the companies themselves and thus are not simply swayed or biased one way or another just because their marketing says so.

With this in mind, I have decided it is time to right all the wrongs of my cookware buying ways! Yes your article has reformed me and I see the light~ I mean metals! Both thermal and conductive capacities, LOL

So I have begun to aquire my arsenal with your help.

The first thing you need to know about me is I am indeed a "sloppy cook" meaning that I have a love hate relationship with small pans of any kind because I usually end up making a mess of things. Not that my food is bad, it's not but I am known for making messes, that I of course clean up myself!

Second, I just feel better having larger pans to work in because I find the small ones, well confining and I feel a lot of anxiety because I am a perfectionist.

So, I have purchased the Falk, "try me" 1.5 qt saucier. I am waiting for it to arrive. I also want to ask for your set of "Dream Pans" as the other author asked. I am just really curious what you and the others here choose to cook with. So with that said, could everyone weigh in as to what pans they have at home and are using on a daily basis?

I will start by letting you know that I have AllClad MC2,10 pieces love these, Allclad Coppercore 15 pieces,paid a fortune, (really long handles an I find no difference in cooking to me unfortunatly) Then I have a few Scanpans for sticky things like eggs(a saucier) and large saucepan for oatmeal. Thank you all in advance for your contributions,time and effort. I look forward to what you are all using and what makes you happy! Cheers, Luckyjax

[slkinsey]

Just out of curiosity, what size stockpot meets your needs? We do a lot of pasta dishes as well. I've been waffling about using a 6-8 qt vessel for pasta (hidden use for a rondeau?) and getting a big stockpot for stock/corn later, or getting something 8-12 qt that might be useful if not ideal for all of the above.

I can't offhand say what size the stockpot is that I use for pasta. It's a heavy Paderno stockpot with a fitted pasta strainer large enough so that when I put in a package of dry pasta it is completely submerged (meaning that the pasta insert part has to hold at least 12 inches depth of water). This is large enough to be a smallish pot for stock by my standards. When I am making volumes of stock, I am more likely to use my 5 gallon stockpot. My smaller stock/pasta pot I am more likely to use for smaller amounts of stock rather than intensive stock production for storage (e.g., if I want to make some stock from the bones of two chickens that I just happen to have lying around).

Either one of the sizes you mention (6-8 quarts or 8-12 quarts) strikes me as being too small. Stock pots have roughly the same height as they do diameter. A 6 quart stockpot is likely to have a diameter and height of somewhat less than 8 inches, and a 12 quart stockpot is likely to clock in at somewhat less than 10 inches. Add the fact that a pasta insert shortens the height of the stockpot by a couple of inches, and you're not even going to get half of a strand of pasta submerged in the water.

But... as with all things, you have to make your own evaluations and decisions. For me. being able to toss in spaghetti and have it completely sumberge was an important factor in choosing. For others it might not be.

[Shel_B]

Over the next year I'll be buying a few new pieces of cookware. In the past I've purchased multi-layered clad cookware with

two exceptions. My question, mainly because of budgetary conerns, is this: when is clad cookware preferred to cookware with a disk bottom? Would results be better with a clad stockpot than with a disk-bottomed pot? What about with a sauté pan or a skillet, assuming that the disk was thick enough and extended close enough to the edge of the cooking surface, and that the clad cookware was also of good quality?

Thanks for your opinions and input,

Shel

[slkinsey]

I don't think there are many instances where straight gauge cookware is needed. Frypans. Reduction pans. Small saucepans for saucemaking. That's about it.

[Luckyjax]

in Thomas Kellers new book ad hoc, he mentions. If your trying to saute something in a lightweight aluminum pan your not going to get the same result as you would in an all-Clad copper-core saute pan. Plus throughout his book he has pictures of both the MC2 and the copper-core Alliclad lines... Do you think he is choosing this ccokware or being paid to represent these lines? Or as you say shilling,(pimping) the line? What are we to make of this knowing what we now know from your in depth lecture on understanding stovetop cookware? Please explain because has he been bamboozled by All-Clad too?

BTW, I bought all my All-Clad pieces years ago before I even knew any better and I am only now realizing I paid dearly for my mistakes!

Also, I have a 60 inch wolf range and no matter how responsive copper or aluminum is the large heavy cooking grates stay very hot on my burners, so I always end up taking my cookware off the grates and putting them on silicone hotspots 11 inch by 11 inch, what do others do about this same problem? I seriously have about 10 of these silicone mats placed all over my kitchen counters and islands so I can cool off the cookware holding the food asap instead of turning the burner turned off but the grate is still hot as coals overcooking my food!

[Shalmanese]

I don't think there are many instances where straight gauge cookware is needed. Frypans. Reduction pans. Small saucepans for saucemaking. That's about it.

Straight Gauge is also useful for small pans on big gas burners. The flame will lick up the sides of the pan and cause burning if the sides are too thin. If you have an excellent gas burner, you can match the size of the flame to the size of the pan but for normal, home stoves, sometimes you need high output in a small area and straight gauge can save significant heartache.

in Thomas Kellers new book ad hoc, he mentions. If your trying to saute something in a lightweight aluminum pan your not going to get the same result as you would in an all-Clad copper-core saute pan. Plus throughout his book he has pictures of both the MC2 and the copper-core Alliclad lines... Do you think he is choosing this ccokware or being paid to represent these lines? Or as you say shilling,(pimping) the line? What are we to make of this knowing what we now know from your in depth lecture on understanding stovetop cookware? Please explain because has he been bamboozled by All-Clad too?

BTW, I bought all my All-Clad pieces years ago before I even knew any better and I am only now realizing I paid dearly for my mistakes!

Also, I have a 60 inch wolf range and no matter how responsive copper or aluminum is the large heavy cooking grates stay very hot on my burners, so I always end up taking my cookware off the grates and putting them on silicone hotspots 11 inch by 11 inch, what do others do about this same problem? I seriously have about 10 of these silicone mats placed all over my kitchen counters and islands so I can cool off the cookware holding the food asap instead of turning the burner turned off but the grate is still hot as coals overcooking my food!

He's shilling for All-Clad pans but he also makes an important point that All-Clad like pans are going to be better than thin aluminium ones. Look past the brand and just look at the tech specs.

[tim]

Do you think he is choosing this ccokware or being paid to represent these lines?

Hi,

Thomas Keller is the "ambassador" of All-Clad's Cop-R-Core line of cookware. He also claims to have helped develop All-Clad's new D5 line of cookware; this new line uses the Cop-R-Core handles and pouring lips and has replaced the copper with more aluminum and an thin layer of steel. It is obvious that he will be assisting All-Clad in promoting this new line. He is not "bamboozled" but he is paid.

His website includes the following in the "STORE" section.

• STORE
  We are pleased to provide links to some of the products that we use in our restaurants everyday.
  ALL-CLAD
  We only trust suppliers whose edicts for quality match our own. We use All-Clad cookware because each item is crafted with a critical level of integrity.
  | PURCHASE THIS ITEM |

"PURCHASE THIS ITEM" is a link to All-Clad's website. Inexplicably, the link and the statement about their use of All-Clad cookware is next to the following picture of their Mauviel Cookware.

Tim

[Shel_B]

Has anyone tried the new All-Clad D5 cookware and compared the results and touted benefits to the standard All-Clad tri-ply cookware?

Shel

Edited December 29, 2009 by Shel_B (log)

[Luckyjax]

Saw it live at william Sonoma asked if they are using it for their cooking demonstrations, they said not yet, but they are planning to switch... I made them get a box out for me and I read the pamphlet in it that explaines the layers that are clad together and why this is so much better. Well for one thing, it is very heavy. I did not buy a piece yet but I can attest to having both Mc2 and Copper Core and there is no difference in the cooking! In fact I prefer the Mc2 over the core because it is lighter, the handles are shorter so there is more room on my 60 inch Wolf stovetop and the Mc2 is just so much easier to deal with. So Wh*t if it gets tarnished on the brushed allluminum. I got taken with the Copper Core product and I'm mad about it. I really cook better in the alluminum. All Clad knows they screwed up and their customers are mad as hell. As stated before the thin amount of copper sanwiched beween the the thin amounts of alluminum and then covered with the stainless is not working... So now the "GIMICK" is the. Thomas Keller All Clad 5D... All they did was made the copper ,put a magnetic stainless layer then made the alluminum sanwiched around the this thicker and then coverd the whole thing in "Magnetic Brushed Stainless". They knew they got the SPECS wrong on the Copper Core and they are trying to fix it...so now the NEW 5D's deal is it can work on induction and they are desperate to try to capture that market using Keller as the Mascott.

[Rick Mogstad]

So, it's coming time for me to replace my $200 set of non-stick pans (which was expensive on my newlywed budget 5-6 years ago), and I would like to get something that is going to cook well, and last. I am certainly no pro, and I bake much more than I cook, personally, but we do cook daily, so nice pans would be something to invest in.

I have spent a few hours reading over several cookware threads, and I certainly feel more educated , though I don't know that I can still spot a good deal.

So, this brings me to my (first, probably of many) question.

Is this set at Costco worthwhile? Looks like a good brand (from what I've read), but I still don't feel confident in my own ability to pick out a good pan from a bad one, aside from brand.

I am thinking that it would benefit me to buy a decent set to start, and add to it over time.

If there are any others you would recommend, please say so as well. $600 is doable budget-wise in the short term, $1600 probably isn't, but if that is what makes sense, I will save some money and buy it in a few months instead.

Thanks in advance,

Rick

Edited February 11, 2010 by Rick Mogstad (log)

[Shalmanese]

$600 is more than generous for a cookware budget. I'm a big fan of keeping the number of pots & pans down to a minimum, more pans just means more hassle managing everything. Skip the sets, buy individual, well made pieces.

[KarenDW]

Hi Rick.

I'll admit to having a lot of confusion after reading several cookware threads, too You mention that you are married. Take a hint from my "dear husband", and remember that any other cooks in the house should also get a test drive of the new cookware! It doesn't matter how good the "brand" is, if your spouse's hand doesn't fit the handle of the pan. Or course, the partner who does the majority of the cooking probably gets to make the ultimate choice. Do keep in mind that things change over time, and that sometimes kitchen roles also change

Following your link (to costco), it's difficult for me to tell which pans you have chosen. IMHO, replacing your entire cupboard at once might not be necessary The Calaphon set looks to be quite complete for everyday work, with the addition of the pressure-cooker outfit. I would also add some sort of griddle, especially if you can find one which is also suitable for an outdoor grill. We have a Calaphon griddle which has been wonderfully multi-purposeful.

Best of luck with your decision!

[mbhank]

Hi Rick - I've become a fan of spending a little more and getting the best that you can get. All I can say is buy All Clad. Pieces come up for sale all the time at Williams-Sonoma, and Sur La Table.

Edited February 11, 2010 by mbhank (log)