Sous Vide: Recipes, Techniques & Equipment, 2011

[ScottyBoy]

Two different techniques that will render two different results. It's the Sous Vide Thread so we're trying out new techniques on dishes that are usually well established. I'm sure your traditional way of marinating and then charring is awesome but I think we're just trying to test all the applications SV can lend itself to. The biggest thing for me is consistency.

[mgaretz]

Yes, you're quite right and as vengroff said, I also use sous vide more with tender cuts to make them more succulent. I was careless in my language. I really intended to refer to the specific usage. Marinating to make Char siu. The marinating already makes for a result that is as juicy and tender as one could ask for. That said I've not tried it.

I may be in a minority, but if I'm going to use sous videry, then it is to solve a particular problem rather than out of general principles. For example, when buying a chicken, the breast and legs need cooking differently to both sow at their best IMO. So I joint my chicken and get the best out of both cuts by cooking them both sous vide.

But it has to be admitted that it's a bit of a fiddle, particularly with meat that's marinated. (I use a clamp vacuum sealer). When cooking char siu, I marinate my meat, roast/grill (using alternating surround and grill heat) for as long as it takes to get the meat surface nicely charred. It's beautifully juicy & tender in the middle. Now if someone can give me a proper recipe to follow with quantities and all, (don't need pics) I'd love to give it a try. And if I'm wrong and the results are better than I normally get I'll be the first to come back and say so.

First of all, I don't agree that the marinating will somehow magically make the meat more tender/juicy/succulent. Overcook it or under marinate it or use the wrong marinade and you can have shoe leather. I've made plenty of char siu by marinating, roasting and the charring. Sous vide is not only way easier, and as Scotty said, way more consistent, but also tastier (IMO, of course).

My recipe is simple: First, I use a pork tenderloin. Not loin, but tenderloin. Pat dry then rub to coat evenly with NOH brand char siu marinade mix, dry. (this is a packet intended to be mixed with water to make a traditional marinade - we're using it as a rub instead). Put into vacuum bag and seal. Let it sit in the refrigerator for 10 to 24 hours. For me it's usually about 12, sealing it up the night before. Then into the bath at 140f for 5 hours. Remove, pat dry and baste with honey. Grill on all sides to get the char, re-baste the top with honey and let rest for 15 minutes and slice and serve if eating immediately. I usually let mine cool completely then slice and refrigerate for use later.

Edited December 9, 2011 by mgaretz (log)

[pep.]

Has anyone got some experience with sous-vide pâtés? I'll be making the duck and lamb pâté from http://www.chilefire.com/blog/2011/5/9/pte-de-campagne-de-canard-et-dagneau-a-campagne-styled-pte-of-du/ tonight, but I'd like to do it sous-vide instead of in the oven. Is the temperature necessary for the pâté to keep together, or would a lower temperature (60 or 65 °C) with pasteurization times be even better?

I've got some extra duck breast that I plan to grind with the 1 cm plate to add some chunky bits to the texture of the pâté.

[avaserfi]

I make a sous vide pork belly char siu occasionally. The final product is different than the traditional method, but delicious and especially crispy if care is taken. I prefer not using a packet, but make the seasonings myself. The pork's texture is easily changed by adjusting the cook time and temperature.

http://www.consumedgourmet.com/2011/09/pork-belly-char-siu.html

Sous vide pate is pretty easy too. I change the temperature depending on the ingredients and the final texture I want. I don't think I would a duck and lamb pate to 70C, that seems to high. Maybe around 60-65C, with that recipe I would probably shoot closer to 60C.

Occasionally, I have found gamey meat cooked low temp is becomes livery or has the gamey notes are accentuated. So you might want to cook to a core of 65C or so, but in a 70C bath.

http://www.consumedgourmet.com/2011/08/country-pate.html

[pep.]

Sous vide pate is pretty easy too. I change the temperature depending on the ingredients and the final texture I want. I don't think I would a duck and lamb pate to 70C, that seems to high. Maybe around 60-65C, with that recipe I would probably shoot closer to 60C.

Occasionally, I have found gamey meat cooked low temp is becomes livery or has the gamey notes are accentuated. So you might want to cook to a core of 65C or so, but in a 70C bath.

It sounded to high for me, too, that's why I asked. But 60 °C might not denature the egg proteins in the panade enough to keep the finished pâté together. Or at least that's the one thing keeping me from going 60 °C

I don't think that the duck/lamb combo is that gamey, but I guess that depends on one's meat preference. I've noted the livery note once with beef shanks that were cooked 72 hours at 54.5 °C, but that might have just been intense beef smell (they were cooked without any seasoning, which I don'T do anymore). I will let you know how the pâté turns out. I've got some silicon molds I'd like to use - I hope they are not crushed to badly by the vacuuming process.

[slkinsey]

Sous vide pate is pretty easy too. I change the temperature depending on the ingredients and the final texture I want. I don't think I would a duck and lamb pate to 70C, that seems to high. Maybe around 60-65C, with that recipe I would probably shoot closer to 60C.

Occasionally, I have found gamey meat cooked low temp is becomes livery or has the gamey notes are accentuated. So you might want to cook to a core of 65C or so, but in a 70C bath.

http://www.consumedgourmet.com/2011/08/country-pate.html

I've made the Momofuku "Vietnamese-style" pate for banh mi using sous vide techniques. It's essentially equal parts ground pork shoulder and pureed chicken livers seasoned with fish sauce, garlic, shallot, Chinese five spice, salt and sugar. The actual recipe says to bake it in a main marie until it reaches 145F. I just packed it into small loaf pans, sealed it and dropped it into a 63.3C water bath. Came out perfectly. It's a crumbly, spreadable type rather than a mousse type or a solid sliceable type.

[avaserfi]

Sous vide pate is pretty easy too. I change the temperature depending on the ingredients and the final texture I want. I don't think I would a duck and lamb pate to 70C, that seems to high. Maybe around 60-65C, with that recipe I would probably shoot closer to 60C.

Occasionally, I have found gamey meat cooked low temp is becomes livery or has the gamey notes are accentuated. So you might want to cook to a core of 65C or so, but in a 70C bath.

It sounded to high for me, too, that's why I asked. But 60 °C might not denature the egg proteins in the panade enough to keep the finished pâté together. Or at least that's the one thing keeping me from going 60 °C

I don't think that the duck/lamb combo is that gamey, but I guess that depends on one's meat preference. I've noted the livery note once with beef shanks that were cooked 72 hours at 54.5 °C, but that might have just been intense beef smell (they were cooked without any seasoning, which I don'T do anymore). I will let you know how the pâté turns out. I've got some silicon molds I'd like to use - I hope they are not crushed to badly by the vacuuming process.

I didn't notice the egg on my quick glance. They will probably need a higher temperature for the whites to set. I would probably use some alternative ingredients for the panade and avoid the egg.

[vengroff]

For those of you who have been asking about pasteurization curves, SousVide Dash 2.0 is now available.

Please upgrade and enjoy. I look forward to your feedback.

[jmolinari]

Hrmm any reason why i might not be seeing the new option? Looks exactly the same. Missing the 4th item where I choose to

Pasteurize.

Using on iPhone.

[vengroff]

Hrmm any reason why i might not be seeing the new option? Looks exactly the same. Missing the 4th item where I choose to

Pasteurize.

Using on iPhone.

Apple says updates can take 24h to reach all their servers, but it's usually a lot less. If you go into the App Store on the phone is the version listed as 2.0 release on Dec 9? If so you should be able to hit the update button and get it. I definitely see the new version in the app store on both my iPad and iPhone at this point.

[jmolinari]

Yup, i downloaded it...shows i have 2.0 installed in the app store.

[jmolinari]

deleted the app and reinstalled and seems to have the options...weird.

[vengroff]

And just for completeness there is now a SousVide Dash Quick Start video on YouTube.

[Robert Jueneman]

Vengroff, you've cost me $200! I had to buy an iPhone, just to get your very cool SousVide Dash app!

But now I have some questions:

1. Is there any way for me to to add my favorite foods and default times/temperatures? It would be nice to have a variety of vegetables, like corn on the cob, asparagus, carrots, etc., to save me having to drag out the cookbook.

2. Rather than putting a six hour limit on the time (pasteurized) or four hour (non-pasteurized) could you go ahead and display the time to come up to temperature? If it's 6:01, I would probably take a chance, but if it's 8:00, probably not.

3. The PolyScience 7306 has a circulation pump speed switch. Does your value of h reflect the low or high speed setting?

4. I tried setting the starting temperature to say 25C, and the desired final temperature to 5C in a 1C water bath, to calculate chilling times, but you don't allow it. I'll buy the second app, if necessary -- please?

4. I'm still trying to think of a way of computing the time from a frozen state, even if it's just ball-park.

[vengroff]

Vengroff, you've cost me $200! I had to buy an iPhone, just to get your very cool SousVide Dash app!

Wow! I'm extremely flattered. Now I just have to figure out how to get a commission from apple....

But now I have some questions:

1. Is there any way for me to to add my favorite foods and default times/temperatures? It would be nice to have a variety of vegetables, like corn on the cob, asparagus, carrots, etc., to save me having to drag out the cookbook.

I think that's a good idea. Now that the core functionality is in place we can start thinking about extensions like that.

2. Rather than putting a six hour limit on the time (pasteurized) or four hour (non-pasteurized) could you go ahead and display the time to come up to temperature? If it's 6:01, I would probably take a chance, but if it's 8:00, probably not.

Another good suggestion. Maybe a 30 minute buffer in which it is still willing to display the time but issue a warning? My biggest concern here, and the reason for the current limits, is that I don't want a novice to go and cook a ten hour salmonella bomb thinking the app said it would be OK.

3. The PolyScience 7306 has a circulation pump speed switch. Does your value of h reflect the low or high speed setting?

Low.

4. I tried setting the starting temperature to say 25C, and the desired final temperature to 5C in a 1C water bath, to calculate chilling times, but you don't allow it. I'll buy the second app, if necessary -- please?

I'll look into this. Maybe an advanced setting. We'll also need to get some data on how things go in an ice bath. It's essentially a different piece of equipment with it's own unique properties.

4. I'm still trying to think of a way of computing the time from a frozen state, even if it's just ball-park.

I thought this would be difficult but not impossible. Douglas Baldwin's recent comments scared me off a bit. It would definitely need some very thorough testing.

Thanks for your excellent feedback.

[pep.]

I didn't notice the egg on my quick glance. They will probably need a higher temperature for the whites to set. I would probably use some alternative ingredients for the panade and avoid the egg.

I modified the panade to use only the yolks (three yolks instead of the two whole eggs from the recipe). Since I also forgot to buy cream, I replaced it with 30 g of butter and 100 ml of the soaking liquid from the porcini mushrooms. I also added some cassia buds to the spice mixture. Since it got a bit late, cooked the pâté overnight (at 65 °C), then chilled and pressed it in an ice bath. It turned out fabulous!

[DouglasBaldwin]

Some of you may be interested in the review article, Sous Vide Cooking: A Review, that I wrote for the first issue of the International Journal of Gastronomy and Food Science — a new peer-reviewed Elsevier journal. I'm not sure when the first issue of the journal will be out, but I'm guessing it'll come out later this month or next. Being a review article, it only has a few new things and mostly draws from my guide and a few of my ‘review’ posts in this topic.

[Robert Jueneman]

Douglas, I've contacted Elsevier, trying to find out how to subscribe to the new journal, but so far I'm coming up with blanks. The one contact address is no longer receiving e-mail, and the other one hasn't responded.

Do you know how to subscribe, or when the first issue will be coming out? Is it for real? Any idea who the other first contributors will be?

BTW, your web site seems to be down, at least at the moment. Probably too many people trying to download your article!

Bob

[DouglasBaldwin]

Hi Bob, I'm not sure when the first issue will be out. The emails I've gotten from Elsevier with the proofs to my article seem to indicate that it is for real and will be published very soon. I promise that I'll post more information as it becomes available.

[Neil Smith]

Today I made Char Siu Take Two. (Actually it's the 4th time, but take two rhymes with char siu!) This was probably the best batch I have made. It's not traditional in that it's very lean without the fat and gristle common in the char siu made with pork butt or shoulder, but that was the point!

To recap, I start with pork tenderloin. Rub it liberally with a packaged char siu powder (normally intended to be mixed with water to form a marinade) then vacuum seal it and refrigerate for about 12 hours. Then into the bath for 4-5 hours at 140F. Remove from bath and pat dry, then baste on all sides with honey. Char it on a very hot BBQ for a few minutes on each side (or you can do it under a broiler). Remove and rebaste with honey and allow to rest a while, then slice.

I make a sous vide pork belly char siu occasionally. The final product is different than the traditional method, but delicious and especially crispy if care is taken. I prefer not using a packet, but make the seasonings myself. The pork's texture is easily changed by adjusting the cook time and temperature.

http://www.consumedgourmet.com/2011/09/pork-belly-char-siu.html

Thanks for posting these! I had my first go at pork char siu over the weekend. I used pork tenderloin, cooked as per Mark's instructions, but used Andrew's marinade. It was very nearly a disaster when I mistakenly converted 140F into 78C, but sanity kicked in before any damage was done. I don't have a working grill (broiler?) at the moment, so to finish it I poured some marinade over the pork then fried it.

The results were fantastic and something I will do again. We had a friend over for lunch, who was at first bemused by the whole sous vide process, then amazed at how well the pork came out.

[ChrisZ]

I have been idly looking around the archives (and through my books) to see if there's any benefit to cooking sea scallops sous vide. I can't find any reference to anyone who's even tried it, and although Modernist Cuisine has them in their shellfish table at a recommended temperature of 50 degrees, the text briefly suggests that scallops are best cooked quickly pan-seared.

I really love pan-seared sea scallops, and they're not exactly difficult to cook, but if there's any way to improve their flavour (by brining, for example) or texture (cooking sous vide) then I'd love to try it.

Any suggestions?

[Robert Jueneman]

I have been idly looking around the archives (and through my books) to see if there's any benefit to cooking sea scallops sous vide. I can't find any reference to anyone who's even tried it, and although Modernist Cuisine has them in their shellfish table at a recommended temperature of 50 degrees, the text briefly suggests that scallops are best cooked quickly pan-seared.

I really love pan-seared sea scallops, and they're not exactly difficult to cook, but if there's any way to improve their flavour (by brining, for example) or texture (cooking sous vide) then I'd love to try it.

Any suggestions?

I routinely cook sea scallops sous vide, directly from frozen, at 50C, but at the moment I don't remember for how long -- I use the times in Douglas Baldwin's book. Then I pan sear them briefly.

But I haven't done a blind taste-test to compare that way of cooking them vs. straight pan searing.

[Paul Kierstead]

I really love pan-seared sea scallops, and they're not exactly difficult to cook, but if there's any way to improve their flavour (by brining, for example) or texture (cooking sous vide) then I'd love to try it.

Ideas in Food has a "twice cooked scallops" recipe that brines and cooks them SV, with a pan seared finish. I'm not entirely sure they are *better* in terms of flavour and/or texture, but they are fool proof and easier to do when you have a lot of stuff on the go. I make them fairly frequently.

[nolnacs]

I really love pan-seared sea scallops, and they're not exactly difficult to cook, but if there's any way to improve their flavour (by brining, for example) or texture (cooking sous vide) then I'd love to try it.

Ideas in Food has a "twice cooked scallops" recipe that brines and cooks them SV, with a pan seared finish. I'm not entirely sure they are *better* in terms of flavour and/or texture, but they are fool proof and easier to do when you have a lot of stuff on the go. I make them fairly frequently.

I've also made the twice cooked scallops recipe and I can attest that they are very tasty.

[slkinsey]

Yes, the IIF 2x-cooked scallops are definitely the way to go. The scallops have a better shape, due to being firmed up SV before searing, and somehow they seem to form a better crust without overcooking compared to pan-searing them from raw.