The Olive, Antipasto and Salad Bars

[weinoo]

Yesterday I was at my "local" Whole Foods and was thinking about buying some olives, along with some other pickly things that are displayed in this store's "Antipasto Bar." That is, until I saw an older guy (well, maybe my age) walk up to it (and I knew what was going to happen next), and stick his fingers into the assorted olive bin to extract a particularly juicy morsel.

A minute later he was circling back, pit still in his mouth, but this time he made his way to the opposite side of the bar, whereupon he picked up another tidbit and popped it into his mouth.

Needless to say, I didn't buy any olives yesterday.

This, in my opinion, is part of what's wrong with the human race. People are disgusting, and they don't give a damn about anyone else - but that's a different subject for a different board.

My questions are these:

Do you ever partake thusly?

If yes, why?

Do you buy stuff from the antipasto/salad bars?

My answers are no and no, for the reasons stated above.

[Panaderia Canadiense]

No and no. Mostly because this type of "self service" bar is not really a thing here - we tend to have severs behind it and glass in front. Said servers are always hair-netted and surgical-gloved.

Hence, I do sample, but only after asking the server nicely for said sample, which comes to me in a little paper cone or on the end of a little plastic pitchfork thingie.

[weinoo]

No and no. Mostly because this type of "self service" bar is not really a thing here - we tend to have severs behind it and glass in front. Said servers are always hair-netted and surgical-gloved.

Hence, I do sample, but only after asking the server nicely for said sample, which comes to me in a little paper cone or on the end of a little plastic pitchfork thingie.

That is the way I like to see them and the only way I'll buy olives and the like.

[Mjx]

No and no. I grew up in Italy, where you don't touch the merchandise.

[Rico]

Do you ever partake thusly?

Nope. Though in that case, I'm not even sure partaking thusly was even legal, no to mention unsanitary. Was he just treating it as a big, free-sample kiosk?

Do you buy stuff from the antipasto/salad bars?

As of reading this anecdote, no. My blissful ignorance regarding the habits of some others is now shattered.

[Lisa Shock]

I won't buy from those sorts of self-service bars in the US. I have seen too many people sticking their hands in the food. Remember that about 50% of men and 25% of women don't wash their hands after using the restroom.

In 1991, on the day before Thanksgiving, I was in the checkout line at Wild Oats and had the salad bar in my line of sight. The line was long, and I was there maybe 20 minutes or more. During that time, I saw people come in to the store, and almost everyone grabbed an item or two off the salad bar and ate it as they walked by. By the time I got to being checked out, the salad bar was wiped out -entirely from people stealing from it. No one had come by and prepared themselves a salad at all.

[ElaineK]

I don't mind buying from the olive bar. It hasn't made me sick or killed me yet, probably mostly due to all the salt and vinegar.

However, I'm not inclined to reach in and snag a sample with my fingers, either. My closest olive bar has toothpicks available if you're inclined to sample, and the other one I partake of has itsy sample cups. I want to say a half ounce, they're the same cups that they use for vinegar and olive oil tastes.

Neither seems to be routinely decimated by people who want snacks, but it's nice to be able to compare a couple of different olives and pick the best one(s) for my dish.

[Franci]

No and no. I grew up in Italy, where you don't touch the merchandise.

Me too

And in Italian supermarkets you have to wear gloves to pick your vegetables (don't remember anymore in the US or UK.) While here in France you don't.

[BeeZee]

unfortunately, my husband is one of those disgusting people who snags an olive from the bar. I always yell at him but he won't stop. I'm not sure if he goes straight into the bin or uses the spoon to scoop one out, as I usually make sure I'm at least 6 feet away from him so I can pretend I don't know him

I don't worry too much about olives due to the vinegar as mentioned above, but one time I went in to a Panera Bread which had a tray of bread samples near the entrance, and witnessed someone who was possibly homeless digging in with filthy hands.

[weinoo]

unfortunately, my husband is one of those disgusting people who snags an olive from the bar. I always yell at him but he won't stop. I'm not sure if he goes straight into the bin or uses the spoon to scoop one out, as I usually make sure I'm at least 6 feet away from him so I can pretend I don't know him

I don't worry too much about olives due to the vinegar as mentioned above, but one time I went in to a Panera Bread which had a tray of bread samples near the entrance, and witnessed someone who was possibly homeless digging in with filthy hands.

I don't understand the whole not worrying because of vinegar. When was the last time a doctor or nurse rubbed vinegar on your arm before administering an injection?

Besides the disgustingness of the practice, it's actually stealing. And ends up costing all customers more in the end.

[Kouign Aman]

I don't understand the whole not worrying because of vinegar. When was the last time a doctor or nurse rubbed vinegar on your arm before administering an injection?

Besides the disgustingness of the practice, it's actually stealing. And ends up costing all customers more in the end.

Wont swear to the concentration, but yes, dilute acetic acid has been tested and shown it is an effective bacteriocide.

However, its still disgusting to sample that way, digging into the main stock w hands.

If you are interested in germs, swab the little spoon/tong handles, eh? Most people use them, so they get the most germy.

[Mjx]

I don't understand the whole not worrying because of vinegar. When was the last time a doctor or nurse rubbed vinegar on your arm before administering an injection?

Besides the disgustingness of the practice, it's actually stealing. And ends up costing all customers more in the end.

Wont swear to the concentration, but yes, dilute acetic acid has been tested and shown it is an effective bacteriocide.

However, its still disgusting to sample that way, digging into the main stock w hands.

If you are interested in germs, swab the little spoon/tong handles, eh? Most people use them, so they get the most germy.

Acetic acid is an effective antimicrobial at a concentration of about 25%; strong vinegar has a concentration of about 18%, which is further diluted by any other liquids present in the dressing, and that is exuded by the food.

The spoon handles aren't a huge deal, since they're not what people put in their mouths, and nobody who cares about their health runs their hands over their face if the can help it, if their hands aren't washed.

[Kouign Aman]

Household vinegar has been shown effective if let to stand (~5% acetic acid).

I dont put the tongs in my mouth, no, but people do pay for something, then eat w their fingers, or rub their eyes, without thinking about it.

Its interesting to think where the sources of nasty are.

Of course, most things dont actually grow on the dry hard surface of a spoon handle, where they might in the lovely moist environment of a saladbar. And then there is mold. I have no idea how low level aa works on funguses and molds, nor viruses such as HSV.

hmmm - i wonder what we'd get if we started a thread on 'do you wash your hands before eating drive thru food in your car?' ?

Some folks would, and then doubleglove to boot. Others wouldnt. It would get vigourous. It might even run half a page!

[ScoopKW]

I'll take samples -- after asking a clerk. And then I use tongs to drop the sample onto one of the plastic lids. THEN I grab the sample and eat it.

After what I've seen working the buffet line at a casino, nothing shocks me anymore. I've seen people touch their erupting-cold-sore mouth and then touch the tongs -- or the food. So now I have no problems asking for fresh tongs and spoons. "Hi, I'd like some items from the olive bar. May I have a clean spoon please?"

The people who dip their fingers into a public food source should be lined up against the grocery store back wall and shot. (OK. That's too strong.) But we need to call it when we see it. "You pig! Get your nasty staph-carrying fingers out of the food! I'll bet there's E. coli under your nails, too. You disgusting animal."

So, BeeZee, get your husband over to the computer and make him read the above.

[Zeemanb]

As far as olive or salad bars at my local grocery stores, if it's something I need I get it....short of the ebola virus my immune system is a miracle of evolution. And holy crap, if I started down the road of worrying about germs in the food, my OCD mind would go straight to germs on the tongs, and how the stack of plastic containers were handled....yuck, I did NOT handy-wipe the handle on this cart....did I turn the knob on the burner all the way off before I left? Did I pull the basement door all the way shut so the cat can't get into the garage? DID I LEAVE THE GARAGE DOOR OPEN?!?!?!

So I go ahead and eat germs. Delicious, savory, abundant and diverse little germs. BUT I do NOT go digging my claw down into a bin of anything...ever.

The husband story above reminded me of a funny story from a couple of years ago when I was attending...finishing school.....the class would break halfway through and there was always a huge tray of cookies waiting for us. We had this one really rough guy, kind of reminded me of a homeless Sideshow Bob from The Simpsons. EVERY TIME we were on the cookie break, he would get there first and handle every single cookie to see which one he wanted...picked it up, turned it over, held it up to inspect it, put it back in the pile and grabbed the next one. People screamed at him every time, to no avail.

And YES, I ate the Sideshow Bob cookies.

[Mjx]

Household vinegar has been shown effective if let to stand (~5% acetic acid).

Not reliably enough to deal with the concentration and array of pathogens in this setting.

I dont put the tongs in my mouth, no, but people do pay for something, then eat w their fingers, or rub their eyes, without thinking about it.

This may sound harsh, but... more fools they. I mean, these are things you're taught to not do when you're still a small child (smacking away of hands much involved, as I recollect)!

. . . .The people who dip their fingers into a public food source should be lined up against the grocery store back wall and shot. (OK. That's too strong.)

Not by much. I say give them a running start, and offer to fire at them while they're moving fast.

But we need to call it when we see it. "You pig! Get your nasty staph-carrying fingers out of the food! I'll bet there's E. coli under your nails, too. You disgusting animal." . . . .

Grrrr.... One of the things that is most infuriating is that people never seem to take it seriously when I comment on this. They ignore me, start yelling at me about their right, or, bizarrely, even ruffle my hair. Does everybody get this sort of reaction, or have some of you actually managed to make some sort of impression on the people you speak to about this/get them to even listen?

As far as olive or salad bars at my local grocery stores, if it's something I need I get it....short of the ebola virus my immune system is a miracle of evolution. . . .

Lucky you... I seem to catch every damn thing going around, anytime I eat in public.

[weinoo]

The people who dip their fingers into a public food source should be lined up against the grocery store back wall and shot. (OK. That's too strong.) But we need to call it when we see it. "You pig! Get your nasty staph-carrying fingers out of the food! I'll bet there's E. coli under your nails, too. You disgusting animal."

Or something similar... .

The husband story above reminded me of a funny story from a couple of years ago when I was attending...finishing school.....

This is an image I am having a hard time with... .

[Beebs]

Argh! People who do this make me so angry! Also the jerks who help themselves to the bulk nuts and candy. Makes me want to shove their heads into the olive brine & pickle them. My Whole Foods & Safeways have signs at the olive bar saying that the clerks would be happy to help customers with samples. Why people don't just ask for the samples is mind-boggling.

Once at another supermarket chain I saw a store manager berate a jerk for digging into the bulk nuts and kicked her out. That was great.

Anyway, as for whether I buy olives from the olive bar - I try really, really, really hard not to think about the germs. Usually that succeeds. Especially if I really, really, really want olives. Usually I scoop the olives from the back & bottom of the bin because I think that people mostly reach for the olives at the front and top. And yes, I know that doesn't make a bit of difference because the germs get stirred around anyway. But mind over matter and all that, right?

[BeeZee]

Agreed, taking "samples" from the olive bar is theft (as I've berated hubby). And it's disgusting (as I've also told him). That's issue #1, flat-out theft of goods. But frankly issue #2 is that if you shone an UV light or swabbed your local supermarket I think you'd find a petri dish worthy of the CDC.

I try not to overthink it, because then you head down the slippery slope to OCD-like behaviour, where no surface can be touched without disinfectant wipes. Little kids wiping snotty noses, sticking fingers in mouth, and then touching every piece of fruit within reach? check. Didn't see it? Ignorance is bliss.

[ScoopKW]

It's not "either or." Either we're completely blasé about microbes, or we act like Melvin Udall from "As Good as it Gets."

That isn't it. It's all about risk minimization as far as I'm concerned. Microbial risk is literally everywhere. We should do what we can to minimize risk.

We should insist:

1) That markets place the same anti-microbial wipes near the olive bar, and other places where the public has access to unpackaged food.

2) That signage be put up explaining the dangers of foodborne illness, and WHERE THE MICROBES COME FROM. Most people don't know they probably have staph on their hair follicles and E. coli under their nails.

Where I come from, if someone grabs food with their bare hands, that food is tossed out immediately. Anyone that grabs olives from the bar with their bare hands should be expected to purchase the contents of the entire container. Then the container should be cleaned and sanitized, and new product be placed in it. Same thing with sneezing children and "guide" dogs in markets. Positive reinforcement is obviously not working. Let's start charging shoppers for the food that they ruin.

[BeeZee]

The "self service" bars have come about because the large supermarket doesn't want to deal with service. If you buy bulk goods which are in open displays in heavily-trafficked markets, you have to unfortunately assume contamination.

Does that make it "right"? No. But it is the reality of the modern market which wants to off-load responsibility to the customer, rather than having to pay an employee to provide a service.

A restaurant deals in repercussions from food-borne illnesses (or illnesses perceived as having come from said food), there is no such finger pointing back to the supermarket. And there is certainly no supermarket employee monitoring the open food bars which are suseptible to contamination to even know when something needs to be dumped. At a restaurant buffet, at least there is an employee monitoring things. Most of the time.

One of the markets I go to has the olive, etc. bar in close proximity to the cheese counter, which is always manned. I like to think those folks keep an eye on things and having someone standing 6-8 feet away is a small deterrent to sample theft or other violations, vs the olive bar in my other market which has no employees anywhere nearby. Perhaps it is as simple as modifying the store layout so it can be "passively" monitored. And maybe put out smaller containers so they look less inviting for "sampling" and need to be replaced more frequently.