Best brand of knife: 2011

[Spivy]

Tojiro ITK Bread Knife - http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkbrkn.html

[Lisa Shock]

I will chime in to mention my love of ceramic knives.

I know that most of the others here are not as enamored of them as I am. Many commercial kitchens don't allow them, and, I certainly wouldn't let just anyone use mine because if they break you have to deal with ceramic shards. That said, I have never broken one in the 6 years since I started using them.

I just have a couple of Kyocera knives and two peelers. Other brands may be just as good, these were what my friends at a local Japanese store had in stock. My chef knife cost $60.

I like them because they lightweight, meaning my arm doesn't get as tired after hours of chopping. They are razor-sharp, and thin bladed, so they can cut fine detail with ease. You have to get used to the lack of weight, at first it's like holding a razor blade -it feels like nothing. But, I have much greater precision than before.

The only things they do not cut well are dense, hard items like large turnips or butternut squash. But, I have my trusty old cleaver, too.

Once, just once, I did something really stupid and cut myself very deeply with a ceramic knife. (yes, I looked at it carefully when I washed it out, it was bad, really bad) I taped it up with neosporin, and the next day the wound was healed without a scar -the cut had been so precise and fine.

[ScoopKW]

PS. I'm enjoying your LV cook's helper thread. More, more..

I'll post some more tomorrow.

Just got back from a hellacious audition. This was for a restaurant on the Strip that most people here know of. I was required to perform the classic French vegetable cuts, with a chef timing me with a stopwatch, while asking me questions about my cooking philosophy. I think I nailed it. But we'll see.

[ScoopKW]

I will chime in to mention my love of ceramic knives.

I love them too. Except if they drop from a height of more than six inches, then they break. They're just too brittle for me. So I stick with INOX (stainless) Japanese knives. (And the only reason for INOX is that it's required for commercial kitchens. I prefer carbon steel. But that doesn't fly in my world.)

[Lisa Shock]

I will chime in to mention my love of ceramic knives.

I love them too. Except if they drop from a height of more than six inches, then they break. They're just too brittle for me. So I stick with INOX (stainless) Japanese knives. (And the only reason for INOX is that it's required for commercial kitchens. I prefer carbon steel. But that doesn't fly in my world.)

Well, yeah every place I have worked just has stainless workhorse knives from the restaurant supply. If you want to use your own you could in some places. When I teach I use my own, but, then I am in control of them every second. That said, I don't teach with ceramic. I have an old Solingen set in my knife roll, and it has served me well.

[Renn]

Just to add what I've personally observed from cooks in their native countries....

1. Europeans (at least those in some of the best kitchens) generally don't give much a damn about their knives. Sure, there are occasional cooks/chefs with razor sharp, well cared for blades, but for the most part, most of us Americans might be shocked at how little attention is put towards their blades. A friend staged in Spain, and every time he would break out his stone, the Spanish cooks would beg him to sharpen their knives...Accordingly, they generally stick to European blades. It's purely a functional perspective for the most part. Western-style Japanese knives are known and desired...however, the cost of any Japanese good in the EU tends to make it out of budget for most cooks.

2. The Japanese in the best kitchens (and perhaps even not the best kitchens) do indeed care for their blades as we might expect....Though I can't really comment on the specific culture of how they think about their knives since I've never really talked to any of them about it. Anecdotally, I've been told that outside of the handmade japanese blades, Misono tends to be fairly common.

3. Americans seem to obsess the most about the selection of the knife...at least from a "car buying" perspective. Most cooks that I run into tend to use japanese knives with western shapes, with some opting for traditional Japanese blade shapes. For the most part, we tend to mix up our knife selections (Gyuto, plastic pairing knife, European Bread knife, western fillet knife...etc)

[ScoopKW]

1. Europeans (at least those in some of the best kitchens) generally don't give much a damn about their knives. Sure, there are occasional cooks/chefs with razor sharp, well cared for blades, but for the most part, most of us Americans might be shocked at how little attention is put towards their blades. A friend staged in Spain, and every time he would break out his stone, the Spanish cooks would beg him to sharpen their knives...Accordingly, they generally stick to European blades. It's purely a functional perspective for the most part. Western-style Japanese knives are known and desired...however, the cost of any Japanese good in the EU tends to make it out of budget for most cooks.

I can assure you that this happens in America, too. I suspect it happens everywhere (with the probable exception of Japan). I carry a 1000/4000 stone with me everywhere. (I leave the finer stones at home. That's where the all the time goes.) I can't tell you how many knives I've sharpened. Some, I suspect, were never sharpened before, ever.

[paulraphael]

The reason you got such a colossal range of answers is that you didn't define "best."

It's kind of like asking "what's the best wine?" or "what's the best house?"

Best in terms of pure performance? If you are willing to spend several months praciticing Japanese cutting techniques and hand sharpening, then you may actually be interested in a very thin, high performance Japanese knife. If you're looking for a durable workhorse than can take an accepable edge and keep going with minimal maintenance, then you'll be well served by a Forschner or Wusthoff or Messermeister (the knives that get used in most mid-range restaurant kitchens). If your answer falls somewhere in between, then there are hundreds of knives, mostly Japanese, that fall somewhere in between.

If you find yourself leaning toward the high performance end of things, I'd suggest starting slowly ... get an inexpensive one, like one of the very thin-bladed, budget carbon steel gyutos, and use it for learning. You won't freak out every time you chip the blade or make a sharpening mistake. And when you're ready to upgrade, you'll have a better idea of what you want.

[Hassouni]

The Tojiro DP 240mm Gyutou is the best $60ish I've ever spent on kitchen stuff. Sharp enough to shave with when I bought it, fairly easy to sharpen. I don't really use Japanese cutting techniques, but man does it fly through food. Sadly Korin no longer carries them and the stronger Yen means it's more expensive now.

[threestars]

3) Since nobody has answered one of your questions: What are most professional chefs using in their kitchens? Mostly cheap restaurant-store knives. Good knives get stolen. It's not nine out of 10, it's more like 95 out of 100. White-handled 10" chef's knives that cost $40 is the usual brand for the professional chef. This doesn't hold true in sushi-world, however, where knife cost appears to be a surrogate for penis size.

4) Learn how to sharpen whatever knives you have first before going out and buying pricey knives. It doesn't make ANY sense to practice changing edge geometry on a $2,000 Hattori KD. Go out and buy a set of sharpening stones first. No matter what knife brand(s) you go with, a good set of stones is a must have. It's money very, very well spent. Besides, your current knives might not be all that bad.

+1 Very well said Scoop! Learned a lot from that post.

[patrickamory]

Someone got me this knife as a birthday present two years ago and it changed my life. It's the only knife I use:

http://korin.com/Togiharu-Inox-Steel-Santoku?sc=22&category=52099

I have a full set of Wusthofs sitting in a knife block that only get used when I need a small knife or two people are chopping.

[HowardLi]

1. Europeans (at least those in some of the best kitchens) generally don't give much a damn about their knives. Sure, there are occasional cooks/chefs with razor sharp, well cared for blades, but for the most part, most of us Americans might be shocked at how little attention is put towards their blades. A friend staged in Spain, and every time he would break out his stone, the Spanish cooks would beg him to sharpen their knives...Accordingly, they generally stick to European blades. It's purely a functional perspective for the most part. Western-style Japanese knives are known and desired...however, the cost of any Japanese good in the EU tends to make it out of budget for most cooks.

I can assure you that this happens in America, too. I suspect it happens everywhere (with the probable exception of Japan). I carry a 1000/4000 stone with me everywhere. (I leave the finer stones at home. That's where the all the time goes.) I can't tell you how many knives I've sharpened. Some, I suspect, were never sharpened before, ever.

I pity you if you've ever had to repair edge damage with the 1000.

[ScoopKW]

I pity you if you've ever had to repair edge damage with the 1000.

I hear you. But some days there just isn't much to do in the casino. I'm not allowed to leave my station. And cellphones are verboten. So I break out a stone and sharpen knives. If a chef walks in and I'm sharpening knives (instead of kibitzing with other cooks), I'm "Mr. Golden Boy."

[Shalmanese]

I pity you if you've ever had to repair edge damage with the 1000.

I hear you. But some days there just isn't much to do in the casino. I'm not allowed to leave my station. And cellphones are verboten. So I break out a stone and sharpen knives. If a chef walks in and I'm sharpening knives (instead of kibitzing with other cooks), I'm "Mr. Golden Boy."

Why not pick up a cheap, coarse stone at the hardware store for more aggressive sharpening?

[ScoopKW]

I hear you. But some days there just isn't much to do in the casino. I'm not allowed to leave my station. And cellphones are verboten. So I break out a stone and sharpen knives. If a chef walks in and I'm sharpening knives (instead of kibitzing with other cooks), I'm "Mr. Golden Boy."

Why not pick up a cheap, coarse stone at the hardware store for more aggressive sharpening?

Because usually I'm just tuning up my knives. It's only when a coworker hands me a knife and says "please please please" do I wish I had a coarser stone in my pack.

[paulraphael]

The Tojiro DP 240mm Gyutou is the best $60ish I've ever spent on kitchen stuff.

A few years ago Tojiro was the bang-for-the-buck champion, no doubt. At least compared with everything else available in the U.S.. Word got out, though, and the price went up. I think it's more than just the exchange rate. The Tojiros are now thinner than they used to be, and are more nicely finished. And they have a reputation. So other brands, like Togiharu, have become the value champions. This seems like an ongoing cycle. In another year everyone will be talking about some brand we haven't heard of yet.

[Shalmanese]

The Tojiro DP 240mm Gyutou is the best $60ish I've ever spent on kitchen stuff.

A few years ago Tojiro was the bang-for-the-buck champion, no doubt. At least compared with everything else available in the U.S.. Word got out, though, and the price went up. I think it's more than just the exchange rate. The Tojiros are now thinner than they used to be, and are more nicely finished. And they have a reputation. So other brands, like Togiharu, have become the value champions. This seems like an ongoing cycle. In another year everyone will be talking about some brand we haven't heard of yet.

All the Togiharu's are over $100 which I don't think qualifies as a value champ. I'm a huge fan of the Kai Wasabi line and $35 for a chef's knife is a steal.

[Hassouni]

I dunno, the yen went from 110 to the dollar to 70ish...a lot of Japanese goods are more expensive now in roughly that proportion.

[paulraphael]

All the Togiharu's are over $100 which I don't think qualifies as a value champ. I'm a huge fan of the Kai Wasabi line and $35 for a chef's knife is a steal.

Well, there you go. Last I looked you could get their entry level 240mm gyuto for $60 something.

I would still generally look to a knife that's made for professional use rather than a brand like Kai, wich is export only, made for the Western consumer market. If you check out the knife discussions at foodieforums.com you'll get more up to date information than what I have.

Mean time the Fujiwara carbon steel knives remain a good value, direct from Japan

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

Unfortunately a lot of the bargains from a couple of years ago are now priced over $100.

Edited October 9, 2011 by paulraphael (log)

[Blether]

Kai is big in Japan, in fact - at least in the Tokyo area it's the most common knife brand, retail.

[paulraphael]

Kai is a huge company with many lines of knives, including ones like Shun and Wasabi which are designed and marketed for export for Western consumers. These knives are designed to have market appeal, and to survive in the hands of people who are untrained. The Shuns use good steel, but have a fat, performance-killing edge geometry, so they don't compare with the professional knives that they pretend to be. The Wasabi knives have similar geometry, and crappy steel. I'd agree that they're still good for the money, but I wouldn't put them in the top one thousand in a thread that's about the best brand of knife available in 2011.

[Blether]

Unless, say, you work as well as cooking every day for a family & have no special interest in knives ? You don't care about sharpening, you don't want to be upset if it gets broken / mislaid, and when in a year or two you feel it's too blunt you'll buy another one. You want it to be cheap but to look nice and be easy to use.

Your best may not be everyone's, Paul. The fact that the Kai's are such big sellers suggests that they're far more people's idea of the 'best' knife than others mentioned in this thread, doesn't it ?

I'm a bit bemused, thinking of Japanese knives as an answer to jfresch's quest for a carving knife. Japan didn't eat meat till not much more than a century ago, and till today has no tradition of big lumps of meat cut up after cooking. And yet westerners are to abandon their traditions and their accomplished knifemakers to buy a carving knife from them ?

[Shalmanese]

All the Togiharu's are over $100 which I don't think qualifies as a value champ. I'm a huge fan of the Kai Wasabi line and $35 for a chef's knife is a steal.

Well, there you go. Last I looked you could get their entry level 240mm gyuto for $60 something.

I would still generally look to a knife that's made for professional use rather than a brand like Kai, wich is export only, made for the Western consumer market. If you check out the knife discussions at foodieforums.com you'll get more up to date information than what I have.

Mean time the Fujiwara carbon steel knives remain a good value, direct from Japan

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

Unfortunately a lot of the bargains from a couple of years ago are now priced over $100.

I never made the claim that the Wasabi was the best knife of 2011 but that it replaced the Tojiro as the value champ. It's not the best steel in the world but I challenge you to find a better knife under $50.

[HowardLi]

All the Togiharu's are over $100 which I don't think qualifies as a value champ. I'm a huge fan of the Kai Wasabi line and $35 for a chef's knife is a steal.

Well, there you go. Last I looked you could get their entry level 240mm gyuto for $60 something.

I would still generally look to a knife that's made for professional use rather than a brand like Kai, wich is export only, made for the Western consumer market. If you check out the knife discussions at foodieforums.com you'll get more up to date information than what I have.

Mean time the Fujiwara carbon steel knives remain a good value, direct from Japan

http://japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html

Unfortunately a lot of the bargains from a couple of years ago are now priced over $100.

I never made the claim that the Wasabi was the best knife of 2011 but that it replaced the Tojiro as the value champ. It's not the best steel in the world but I challenge you to find a better knife under $50.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html

[ScoopKW]

I never made the claim that the Wasabi was the best knife of 2011 but that it replaced the Tojiro as the value champ. It's not the best steel in the world but I challenge you to find a better knife under $50.

http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toitkshwa21.html

Aren't you supposed to include a "challenge accepted" graphic or something?