The Next Iron Chef- 2010

[Kafka Zola]

I'd been hoping for some discussion of the third version of The Next Iron Chef but found nothing. I refuse to believe that no-one on eGullet is watching this or has opinions on this. Not you guys, surely!

So what do you think about Jeffrey Steingarten's absence from the judging panel? Which chefs do you like thus far or think would be a good addition to the current roster of Iron Chefs? Is Ming Tsai so obvious a contender that he just *has* to be out towards the end (given the implicit rules of arbitrary, shock-driven reality television that looks for false drama)? What do you think about challenges that are initially set up to be such ridiculous races that sand gets all over the produce?

Alton Brown has said he feared the "brand" (his words, honestly, not mine) will be diluted but, frankly, and speaking only for myself, I think that ship has already sailed with Chef Garces. Mario Batali's increasing absences may *theoretically* warrant another chef, but the Food Network cares first and foremost only about ratings, which this show has consistently produced above and beyond most of their shows. At this rate, we'll have one of these shows a year.

And yet, I still watch. Unfortunately, I'm a lemming who is sucked into this sort of thing the way one of Pavlov's dogs reacted to a bell. I truly can't help it. But please let me know I'm not alone in my peculiar addiction. What do *you* think of Chef Forgione, Canora, Caswell and Company?

Edited October 23, 2010 by Kafka Zola (log)

[Werdna]

I'm suprised no one is talking about it, this one is much better than the previous one. The food cooked is a salve for bruses inflicted by a lot of mediocore dishes presented on the last season of Top Chef. Without Jeffrey Steingarten (thank god, I'm so sick of him) I find myself even liking the judge panel + Alton, sort of a rarity for me in these cooking shows.

I can't comment on who I think will win, so many amazing contenders. But I'm having quite a good time watching it play out.

A comment on the challenges, these are serious. Almost every one has been 'show off what you can do, with a minor twist'. The 'quickfire' challange is free drama at the begining, everyone rates everyone elses dishs. Winner gets something small, looser looses a minute or something (of an hour) for the elimination. Eliminations so far: Pick something you want to cook, and cook it (at a beach). Pick some classic diner dish (from many examples, chef's choice) and cook it. Catch some fish and cook it. All totally fair, or close enough not to matter IMO. And I can really see a lot of the contestants as an iron chef.

[Duvelus]

Ok I will give you my two cents worth. Frankly I’m loosing interest in the whole Iron Chief franchise.

The quality of the judges on ICA is hit and miss any more. In the Moi competition, Chef Garces won by one point on originality, making Fish and Chips? Really?

The problems I have with The Next Iron Chef is if the Food Network wants to keep the show relevant the Chefs chosen to compete need to be on par with Top Chef Masters. Not Top Chef. Proven established Chefs, with Michelin star experience, James Beard awards and that level of accolades.

And as for the competitions on NIC they need to reflect cooking in Iron Stadium. A common ingredient, in a real kitchen with a one hour time limit. Lets see what the Chefs can come up with. I mean that’s what they are competing for, lets see who has the best execution of the Secret Ingredient.

But I’m not a television producer and that would probably be boring, so we get Big Green Eggs on the beach and County Fair food competitions. LOL

I guess really , what I don’t like is a show that I have enjoyed watching over the years go downhill. But I will keep NIC / ICA on my radar to see how it turns out.

[IndyRob]

Based on the posts here I think I'll give it another chance. But I agree - the franchise has been damaged by the Food Network as per usual. Michael Symon's 'Cook Like an Iron Chef' is a recipe show of nearly zero worth. And why is Kat Cora even involved?

IMHO, The Food Network's cliquey nature is abundantly on display in The Next Food Network Star, but it's only thinly disguised in the Iron Chef America franchise.

[Teddy Devico]

I think the level of of the Next Iron Chef is pretty much at the same level as the top 4 chefs on top chef season 6 (Voltaggio brothers, kevin D, and Jen) I wonder how those four would compare to forgione, canora, caswell, and tsai. I would like to see one of the top chef season 6 conestants on iron chef.

[Kafka Zola]

The problems I have with The Next Iron Chef is if the Food Network wants to keep the show relevant the Chefs chosen to compete need to be on par with Top Chef Masters. Not Top Chef. Proven established Chefs, with Michelin star experience, James Beard awards and that level of accolades.

Duvelus, I agree with a lot of what you wrote but had a question about this part quoted above. Do you not count James Beard nominations (as opposed to the actual award)? How about James Beard awards by region? Or do you mean that they should all have won James Beard "Best Chef in the Country"?

If the latter, then obviously that would be super and fantastic to watch. However, I question the likelihood of such chefs being willing to give up their restaurant empires for the Iron Chef job. Realistically, someone at the level of Jean-George or Daniel Boulud would not have the time.

Chefs like Hubert Keller (whom I adore) were fantastic on Top Chef Masters but that was a limited gig. Iron Chef's time commitments seem to be such that anyone who is at the Top Chef Masters level (or who has empire-making ambitions like Mario Batali) can't really do it.

Personally, I think a lot of this years NIC crop are quite good. If I recall correctly, Chef Canora was responsible for Craft receiving the Best New Restaurant award (as well as 3 stars from the NYT). In addition, one of his own restaurants, Insieme, won a Michelin star. Some of the other chefs this season have also won accolades and/or awards. Chef Forgione also has a Michelin star. Chef Caswell has had several James Beard nominations and is a protegé of Jean-George V. And I think Ming Tsai's level of cooking is well known.

Theoretically, I suppose I should be rooting for Chef Caswell as I now live in Houston, but I have to admit, I hated his famous REEF restaurant when I went there. Hated it. I saw nothing of the sort of Asian-influenced flair and brilliance that he's supposed to have as a result of Jean-Georges's mentorship. He did, however, demonstrate his passion for amberjack that he showed on the very first episode of NIC. I suppose I'm just not a fan of collard greens or southern cooking.

I would be really thrilled if Ming Tsai won. His ideas and level of knowledge last night amazed me. He just needs to stop using 18 to 25 ingredients in his dishes, but I think he learnt from his mistakes 2 weeks ago.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Kafka Zola (log)

[Duvelus]

The problems I have with The Next Iron Chef is if the Food Network wants to keep the show relevant the Chefs chosen to compete need to be on par with Top Chef Masters. Not Top Chef. Proven established Chefs, with Michelin star experience, James Beard awards and that level of accolades.

Duvelus, I agree with a lot of what you wrote but had a question about this part quoted above. Do you not count James Beard nominations (as opposed to the actual award)? How about James Beard awards by region? Or do you mean that they should all have won James Beard "Best Chef in the Country

Well my point was not all of the chefs were the top drawer chefs like what we see on Top Chef Masters and they should have been. I suspect some of what we are seeing here in the chef selection process for shows like Next Iron Chef and Top Chef masters and I guess to a lesser extent Top Chef is, as a chef. What network do you hitch your wagon? And as for the networks, what chefs do they want in their stable so to speak.

I would love to see chefs like Grant Achatz ,Daniel Boulud or Hubert Keller as a Iron Chef, that would be awesome.

I don’t really think the time commitment to be on Iron Chef to really be an issue. Iron Chef films multiple episodes a day and only requires a few days a season out of each of the Iron Chefs. And really if you’re a chef at that level you have good people in your places so you don’t always have to be there. Most if not all, of the existing Iron Chefs have more than one establishment and seem to be fine with it. Now shows like Top Chef and Top Chef Masters they do take major time and travel commitments.

I have to agree with you about Ming Tsai, he has the name recognition and experience, now if he can just remember to keep it simple.

[Kafka Zola]

Duvelus, your comments go to the very heart of the contradiction posed by The Iron Chef brand on a network with the image of the Food Network, and I couldn't agree with you more on what we'd both (or all) love to see on such a show. Like you, I'd love to see Grant Achatz, Thomas Keller, Hubert Keller and the like as an Iron Chef. (God, I'd positively keel over with joy if that were ever to happen.)

With all due respect, I still don't agree with you on the issue of time constraints. Sure, the shows are taped back to back on a few days, but there is far more involved than just a few days every season. From my understanding of the structure, for each episode, the chef is given a list of *potential* mystery items and they have to prepare a set menu for each possibility. That takes weeks of prep and timing. Can you imagine if someone like Thomas Keller lost an Iron Chef challenge because he couldn't plate in time? For a perfectionist like Thomas Keller (or any of the chefs at his level), can you imagine the humiliation that a loss would entail, let alone the potential for a PR damage to the brand? So, the amount of time that a perfectionist superstar like he would take to prepare for one challenge would be huge. Multiply that by 5 or 6 for the various *different* challenges that he'd have to simulataneously prepare for, and then add to that the inevitable PR commitments or other things required of an Iron Chef under their contract with network.

It's no small amount of time,in my opinion. Not with his other commitments.

Have you ever read Ruhlman's last book in his trilogy, The Reach of a Chef? At one point, he talks fleetingly about Thomas Keller's schedule during an average month (week?) in 2006, and it's pretty insane. I lost track of the number of cities. PR stuff, marketing appearances, going to Limoges for his porcelain line, going to check on Bouchon in Las Vegas, checking on Per Se, going to Paris to work on the Christofle line, stopping over in London to get an award from Sarah, Duchess of York, then onto to NY for Good Morning America, back to Las Vegas, then back to New York, and... and.... yikes, there's so much more, I can't type it all. And all of that was before he added mentoring and coaching the US Bocuse D'Or team with Daniel Boulud in 2009 to his list of obligations, along with other cookbooks, etc..

So, sure, he's got phenomenal people to keep his restaurants running in his absence but that doesn't mean he has the time to devote 3 weeks of cooking and timing prep (which is what most chefs devote in preparation) for each Iron Chef episode -- even longer if he has to prepare for a series of them to be taped all back-to-back.

Nor does anyone at his level. Certainly not Chef Achatz, coming off a potential life-threatening illness, and just getting back to Alinea, along with his upcoming book, etc.

So, again, I'll have to disagree with you about the time that the Uber Chefs would have to devote to a show like Iron Chef, but believe me, I agree with you that the show would actually MEAN something if such chefs were a part of it.

I think that the real, underlying problem we're both facing in our wishful thinking for Iron Chef is this: the Food Network is not something that a Uber Chef of the caliber of Keller (Thomas or Hubert), Grant Achatz, Gray Kunz, etc. would ever want to be associated with. The FN is the Rachel Ray network. It has INTENTIONALLY positioned itself as the Rachel Ray network, and it has reaped the rewards to no end. But that focus has made it, to essentially paraphrase how Anthony Bourdain put it in "Medium Raw," all about the cult of mediocrity. How can any Uber Chef take it seriously? How can it be a draw for anyone who has reached the pinacle?

Bottom line, this is the network of Sandra Lee and the infamous Kwanza cake. I'll be honest and say that, for me at least, I'd think LESS of Thomas Keller, Hubert Keller, Grant Achatz, Boulud or Gary Kunz if they ever stepped anywhere near this steaming mound of intentional mediocrity. And, thank God, they're too smart to do so (even assuming they had some hypothetical reason to want to even bother!).

You and I are eager, avid, food junkies who would love to see the masters in action. I share your passionate wish that we could see the best, like the guys mentioned above. But I wouldn't wish the Food Network on any of these guys; it's a taint, imo. So, in the meantime, I think it's fun to enjoy TNIC or TIC for what it is: the best of the 2nd tier -- some of whom managed to prevail under some funky challenges or circumstances.

[Alex]

My three cents (inflation, you know):

1¢. TNIC is simply entertainment; fairness and reasonableness play minor roles. The structure and editing are all about drama.

2¢. Chefs accept a place on the show (and on ICA) for their own reasons. If doing so doesn't impair the food at their restaurants, who are we to criticize?

3¢. I am SO happy I don't have to watch Jeffrey Steingarten hold his silverware like a three-year-old. What's up with that, anyway?

[gfweb]

About time! I was lurking, waiting to see how long it took to get a thread.

To me TNIC is better than IC which has gotten awfully old.

Not many of these chefs have the...uh...gravitas to be a credible ICs. Tsai (though he's completely FOS in a likable way) and the guy from Houston are the exceptions. It'll be between those two if the FN has any hand in the selection.

[Werdna]

I'm still rooting for Nate Appleman "I just made that story up"

[Kafka Zola]

About time! I was lurking, waiting to see how long it took to get a thread.

I did the same thing, before I finally gave up and started the thread myself!

Not many of these chefs have the...uh...gravitas to be a credible ICs. Tsai (though he's completely FOS in a likable way) and the guy from Houston are the exceptions. It'll be between those two if the FN has any hand in the selection.

I've repeatedly heard it whispered in Houston food/chef circles that Chef Caswell ("the guy from Houston") goes very far in the process. The gist of the statements seemed to be that he went very far but (in my impression) not so far as to win. Of course, given the $750,000 or $1,000,000 penalty clause for leaks, who knows how accurate ANY of that is! I'm willing to chalk it up to wishful thinking on behalf of Houstonites desperate for some proper (and perhaps, justified) attention on the foodie scene.

RE. Last Sunday's show: I realise 90 minutes is not a lot of time to cook 4 dishes (esp. without sous-chefs like on the actual Iron Chef) but I was surprised that none of the judges commented on Chef Canora's totally raw "Salad." A tiny sliced crudité compilation with a modicum of anchovy/Bagna Cauda sauce requires very little effort. Again, I realise the time, but chefs have been soundly critiqued on Top Chef and other shows for producing food that involves minimal-to-no cooking with comparable cooking times. At least Chef Forgione's (I think it was his) Wolfgang Puck Chinois Chinese Salad involved something more than shaving or mandolining some slivers of raw vegetables together!

BTW, GFWEB, I'm curious, why do you think that Chef Tsai is "a FOS in a likeable way." Love to know more.

So, what do you guys think of the judges -- particularly Simon Majumdar taking over from Jeffrey Steingarten-- thus far? And what did you think of Chef Garces as a judge?

Edited November 4, 2010 by Kafka Zola (log)

[ckamom]

I am very pleased to see some chat about this show!! I have to start by saying I am very biased as I absolutely love Chef Tsai. When it was announced that he would be competing I wondered why the heck he would put himself in that postion, although at this point I do get the fact that he needs to push himself in a direction that he has yet to conquer..

That being said, if he does not win, it would seriously suck.

Chef Canora seems to really have it in for him, although that may be the editing gods at work.

Overall, the quality of the chefs is much better than the other competitive cooking shows, so I really enjoy watching.

Thanks for starting this thread!

[gfweb]

N

BTW, GFWEB, I'm curious, why do you think that Chef Tsai is "a FOS in a likeable way." Love to know more.

So, what do you guys think of the judges -- particularly Simon Majumdar taking over from Jeffrey Steingarten-- thus far? And what did you think of Chef Garces as a judge?

Tsai FOS? Because he's so unabashedly self-promoting. Looks right in the camera and says he's the greatest (in essence). FOS but likable.

Garces? Seemed OK.

Majumdar- He has that Brit tendency to go for the too-clever put-down. Another one who's FOS...but not all that likable. He's not as bad as the snotty Brit they trotted out a few years ago on Top Chef though.

[Old Timer]

Ming is definitely going to win.

He would not have entered into this fray otherwise.

While the others may be good chefs, I think the fix is in.

Just like when Symon was up against John Besh, who in my opinion cooked rings around Symon.

Ming has too much reputation to risk losing to a relative unknown.

[hsm]

Besh was robbed.

This season's set up of Tsai v. Canora so far lacks the hilarity of Garces v. Jehangir Mehta, which featured Mehta practically twirling his invisible evil mustache.

[gfweb]

Yes indeed, Besh was robbed. But how could they promise a win to Tsai without risking lawsuits up the wazoo if ever found out? Damage to reputation...future profits...everything but loss of consortium.

[Kafka Zola]

Ming is definitely going to win.

He would not have entered into this fray otherwise.

While the others may be good chefs, I think the fix is in.

Just like when Symon was up against John Besh, who in my opinion cooked rings around Symon.

Ming has too much reputation to risk losing to a relative unknown.

When I started this thread, I asked about Ming Tsai's obviousness as a contender to the crown (so to speak) and how it could be interpreted. It's been interesting to see how many think that he's a total lock for the win. Maybe I'm just a massive skeptic and cynic when it comes to these sorts of shows but I meant it when I asked, "Is Ming Tsai so obvious a contender that he just *has* to be out towards the end (given the implicit rules of arbitrary, shock-driven reality television that looks for false drama)?"

As the phrasing of that question indicates, I think it's almost too obvious for Chef Tsai to win, thereby ensuring that he's kept in solely for the drama (possibly up to the very end) but not for the actual win. These shows are all about the false construct and the misleading editing.

I think the final three will be Chef Tsai, Chef Canora (filling in for the Batali/Italian food vacuum) and Chef Caswell, with possibly Chef Canora or Chef Caswell winning.

It would be too good to be true for Ming Tsai to win, not only because it's too obvious but also because they have their Asian food niche already filled by Morimoto. (It doesn't help my pessimism that the person I root for never (ever) ends up winning. LOL.)

[Old Timer]

I don't imagine the win was literally promised to Tsai...but I can imagine that in meetings he may have been told that he had a very good chance of winning as the FN reps *winked* a few times.

One of the key elements of all of the FN hosts and chefs is their ability to play to the masses, regardless of their cooking skills (shudder...Paula Deen) for example. She is no more than a home cook but her ability to communicate with the audience makes her a FN diva.

Tsai has the same ability which he has polished via his own show.

None of the other have a proven track record beyond the kitchen.

And as the FN constantly reminds us...you don't have tho be a top quality chef to appear on their network.

Just look at Aunt Sandy, Rach, Paula, that Cooking for Real chick and of course, the Neely's.

[Kafka Zola]

Random comments on tonight's episode:

1- Perhaps it's just me but I think this season is far, FAR more exciting than the prior one. The last two episodes, I was really rivetted. The challenges also seem better thought out and with more of an actual purpose than last year. It doesn't hurt that they haven't resorted to soap opera dramatics of setting up a clear villain -- as they did last year with Chef Mehta. Sure, some of the chefs trash-talk or have an ego, but chefs -- GOOD chefs -- are rarely wallflowers with a self-esteem problem. And unlike our friend, GFWEB, I don't think self-promoting makes one FOS, albeit a likeable, cool FOS chef.

2- a) I'm not surprised Chef Caswell went home. He started off cooking the refined food that he was trained in by Jean-Georges, and, as a result, impressed the judges. But as the time crunches and challenges increased in complexity, he resorted to his safety zone of cooking the food he does all the time now and is known for. It's understandable and was even perhaps a practical choice given the time considerations. BUT... this is the thing, they gave him a hint two weeks ago that his current, regular style of cooking was not sufficiently refined or sophisticated, and so it was inevitable he wouldn't make it to the end.

b) Again, it's understandable -- he has to be true to who he is as a chef, and he happens to like Gulf Coast cooking. But, speaking for myself only and as someone brought up with a totally different sort of culinary background, I found his "regular cooking" to be absolutely.... ghastly. There, I said it. Sorry, but I would have prefered to stay home and have a sandwich over his food at REEF. (And it wasn't just once; I was dragged their unwillingly for a business dinner a second time and to say I was underwhelmed would be an understatement.) However, in all fairness to Chef Caswell, it's all my fault. I was hoping for the more sophisticated, French or Asian influenced food that would come from being mentored by the legendary Jean-Georges (whose food I've had elsewhere) and Chef Caswell merely cooks a "good old boy's" heightened (barely) Southern, Gulf Coast food. If he's stuck with what he gave TNIC judges at the beginning, I really think he would have been in the finals, but then he wouldn't be himself. So, Good On Him, and may he continue to be the ultra-cool chef that he seems to be.

3) (Damn, I'm long-winded, aren't I? I'm SO sorry! But I have no one else who shares my food passion, so you all bear the brunt of it!) Third, I think Canora is going to win. It will probably be between Chef Canora and Chef Tsai, but with Batali essentially leaving Iron Chef, Canora fits the cuisine vacuum the same way Garces did for Latin food. Plus, Canora already has a Batali-like pony tail. Heh. Jokes aside, I ate at Craft when Canora was sous-chef and essentially putting everything out; maybe he wasn't there that night, but the food wasn't anything remarkable. Excellently prepared, work-man-like good food that was very tasty, yes! No doubt! But ultimately, nothing particularly remarkabble. It's not what I associate with a title like Iron Chef. Then again, it wasn't his menu and his ideas, but I'll be honest, I think perhaps Chef Morimoto is perhaps the most brilliant of the lot in many ways. I haven't eaten at his restaurant yet, but I plan to remedy that in a few weeks time if I can.

BTW, totally OT, note to all future chefs serving Judge Simon: do NOT use pineapple in any shape, size or form, prior to the dessert course. Use LOTS of alcohol, even if it knocks out your fellow judges or diners. And it's okay if your food verges all across the beige-white spectrum, so long as it replicates some stodgy British dish dating back to the 1600s. God Save the Queen....

[gfweb]

I smell a rat. FN saw that Caswell went down and Tsai is on shaky ground and in danger of being cut. A three way tie was arranged to preserve their one shot at getting a telegenic chef (Tsai).

I agree that this show is better than previous series, but not for FN. 4/5 possible outcomes are pretty bad for IC. They need chefs with some flair and a reputation. Other than my friend Ming, this is a bland group.

[ckamom]

I may be naive.. but I am hoping that there is more integrity in this show than a wink wink agreement. Again, call me naive. I (as a fan of Chef Tsai) did make note of the "the gloves sre off" quote that was used at least three times. I was seriously crossing my fingers that Chef Tsai would not become the guy to hate.

Overall I do like the show, and I think that the chefs all have talent.

[gfweb]

If I were the FN, I wouldn't leave to chance the selection of the next "star".

[hsm]

I believe FN agrees with you. (See: Removing the viewers-vote-for-the-winner component from The Next Food Network "Star".)

[Werdna]

I smell a rat.

I hate to say it, because I'm loving the show, but me too. There's no need to have a 3-way tie, give the judges score cards with 100 points possible for each chef, you won't have a tie for worst.

That said, I like them all and am rooting for Canora. His food looks amazing and it seems like he just never screws up.