Fruit Ganache

[Jim D.]

40 minutes ago, Saltychoc said:

 

Which apple juice concentrate do you use? I used a boiled cider syrup last year and I keep having to add more which resulted in a pretty short shelf life. I'm getting a massive amount of apples later this week, I've made apple butter in the past but it's very time consuming.

 

I use a grocery-store-brand apple juice concentrate.  In making apple PDF, I add dried apple slices from Nuts.com--really lowers the Aw.

 

Another option is an apple cider jelly.  Woods Cider Mill makes one that has apple cider as its only ingredient.  I use it in an apple caramel.  It does have a cider taste rather than a pure apple taste, but it works well in caramel (along with some citric acid to cut the sweetness).

[Saltychoc]

I'll have to pick some up and try it. Starting to work on apple flavors in the next couple of weeks.

 

That's a good idea - I used the boiled cider syrup from them and it didn't seem to hold flavor. Though I'm tempted to use it in a marshmallow and see how it does. Cold Hollow also makes a great cider jelly but it doesn't seem to be available yet. I'm going to check if a local place makes one before I order from Woods, this could definitely solve the problem.

[Jim D.]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:29 PM, pastrygirl said:

Not sure if they ship out of the US, but this company has good fruit juice concentrates:

https://www.fruitfast.com/fruitconcentrates.

 

 

How do these concentrates compare to fruit purées (such as Boiron) in taste and texture?  Do you use them in ganaches and PDFs?  The raspberry one sounds like a fantastic idea, given the tedious job of removing seeds from frozen raspberries (though I usually drain them first so that the result is more a thick coulis that does not need reducing in something like a ganache).

[pastrygirl]

@Jim D. They are much more concentrated in flavor and more liquid.  There is no pulp/fiber.  I'm using them in white chocolate ganaches.

[tralfaz]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:52 AM, Jim D. said:

In cases where there is a dried version of the fruit being used, I also added some ground-up dried fruit as part of the quantity of purée called for.

How are you grinding up the dried fruit?

 

My two cents about fruit juices, definitely test as you go.  I used Knudsen Dark Cherry Juice (not conc.) in a non-dairy ganache.  Even after enrobing, the cherry flavor overpowered the dark chocolate.

[Jim D.]

3 hours ago, tralfaz said:

How are you grinding up the dried fruit?

 

My two cents about fruit juices, definitely test as you go.  I used Knudsen Dark Cherry Juice (not conc.) in a non-dairy ganache.  Even after enrobing, the cherry flavor overpowered the dark chocolate.

 

I'm impressed that the cherry overpowered the chocolate.  I can't recall a single situation in which that has happened with a fruit--my problem is just the opposite.  In fact I just made a cherry butter ganache to be paired with a layer of almond gianduja, and I had to get really inventive to make the cherry flavor "visible" at all.

 

About grinding:  I cut the fruit into small pieces with scissors, then I add it to a purée of the same fruit.  I cook the mixture briefly, just enough to soften the dried fruit.  My smaller immersion blender comes with a plastic beaker, and I use that to purée the fruit.  I don't mind if it isn't perfectly smooth as I like some texture in my PDF or ganache.  The fruits where this blend really works are apricot, cherry, apple, pear, and mango.

[tralfaz]

19 hours ago, Jim D. said:

 

I'm impressed that the cherry overpowered the chocolate.

 I misspoke (mistyped?).  Looking back at my notes I see it was dark cherry juice concentrate 1:1 with water.  The recipe I used was 12oz drk chocolate, 10oz coconut oil, 4 fl oz cherry conc. 4 fl oz water.  It's a weird recipe loosely based an old Dilletante Chocolate recipe, in between a cream and butter ganache.  Maybe since I'm amateur and only make for immediate consumption I don't pay attention to water activity and use high amounts of liquid. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by tralfaz (log)

[Jim D.]

I love the flavor of Andrew Shotts's "Red Rose" ganache.   It has a dark chocolate base with the liquefiers being heavy cream and raspberry purée, plus some butter and rosewater at the end.  Fairly standard stuff.  In the software I use for balancing ganaches (based on the calculations of Melissa Coppel and Jean-PIerre Wybauw), this one has 22% water, 22% cocoa butter, 10% other fat, and the ratio of chocolate to liquefiers is 1.8:1 (a little low for the chocolate, but not a lot).  Even though its makeup is not far from the ideal (slightly more water and cocoa butter), it tends to separate.  And I don't know why that is.

 

Of course the most recent time it occurred was today, when I am hurrying to finish up some wedding chocolates.  I tried all the tricks for separated ganaches:  I added more nonfat liquid in the form of raspberry flavoring, raspberry liqueur, then skim milk.  It still looked as if it was dying to separate.  I had used my light-duty immersion blender, so I brought out the heavy-duty Robo Coupe.  Better but still looked "off" (experienced chocolatiers will know what I mean).  So I tried the last trick I know of, turning on my heavy-duty Cuisinart processor and dropping the ganache slowly through the feed tube, adding more skim milk.  Finally it looked OK.  I tested it, and the Aw was fine.  I piped it into the molds (hearts, of course) and took a nap.  Alas, when I returned, a little rim of fat had appeared around the edge of each cavity.  I'm certainly not going to do it over (no one but me will know,  and the mouth is a useful disguiser of bonbons that taste great but don't look quite right), but I would love to have some ideas as to what is wrong with the formulation.  One clue:  I used more of a raspberry coulis than a purée (that is, I drained most of the water from frozen raspberries before sieving them), so it was thicker than purée, but I assumed the extra liquids I added would make it work.

[pastrygirl]

24 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I used more of a raspberry coulis than a purée (that is, I drained most of the water from frozen raspberries before sieving them)

 

This is probably the issue.  Is it really flavorless water, not juice? 

 

Raspberry purees vary in solids content so much, I've switched to the concentrated juice I've mentioned elsewhere.  Unfortunately they only have raspberry in quarts and it's quite pricey, but how much is an hour of frustration worth?   https://www.fruitfast.com/fruitconcentrates.raspberryjuice

 

 

[Jim D.]

17 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

This is probably the issue.  Is it really flavorless water, not juice? 

 

 

Probably a mixture of both.  But frozen raspberries have to be drained at least to some degree.  I dislike recipes that call for reducing purées as they acquire that cooked taste, so whenever possible I use the method I described.

[pastrygirl]

On 10/3/2023 at 12:21 PM, Jim D. said:

frozen raspberries have to be drained at least to some degree

 

I don't think I've heard that before, where did you learn it?

[Jim D.]

44 minutes ago, pastrygirl said:

 

I don't think I've heard that before, where did you learn it?

 

When a fruit is frozen, it becomes watery when thawed.  Obviously it's all juice that was originally inside the fruit, so I misspoke in the previous post.  I just meant that making something like a sauce out of thawed raspberries would be rather watery if the berries weren't drained.  As I said (and as Greweling usually prescribes), some reduction is usually called for to boost the flavor.  With any frozen purées, that's the only option for increasing the flavor, but when I'm using frozen fruit, I have the chance to increase its flavor by draining out some of the juice in the early stages and so avoiding the cooked taste.  My mistake with the raspberries in the ganache recipe was that I removed too much water/juice.

[pastrygirl]

16 hours ago, Jim D. said:

Obviously it's all juice that was originally inside the fruit

 

Exactly.  My POV is that you're throwing away flavor, and that a puree of just raspberries will be whatever consistency it is. I would thaw the fruit, bring to  a boil to pasteurize and also break down the cells further, then puree and strain.  We don't have to agree

 

As for your raspberry ganache, just be consistent with whatever you're doing.  Is there a lower fat dark chocolate you could use? Couverture may not always be ideal for ganaches.  My darker ones are always hardest to emulsify too.

Edited October 5, 2023 by pastrygirl (log)

[JeanneCake]

For what it's worth, in the Cake Bible, RLB uses the microwave to reduce the juice for her raspberry and strawberry purees because it doesn't caramelize and get a "cooked" taste.  She thawed frozen berries in a strainer/basket, and reduced the liquid, then mixed the strained solids with the reduced juice.  I would put a huge glass measuring bowl/cup in the microwave with the juice and it seemed to take *forever* for it to reduce (and it would bubble up like it was going to go over the top!) but it worked.  I even scored a vintage Cuisinart strainer insert on eBay at her recommendation and it absolutely produced a silky smooth puree, no seeds at all!  I go through far too much puree for our cakes/mousse/etc so I'm buying Ponthier or Boiron instead of making my own.

[Jim D.]

7 hours ago, pastrygirl said:

I would thaw the fruit, bring to  a boil to pasteurize and also break down the cells further, then puree and strain. 

 

Lest you think I am a barbarian, the recipe calls for bringing the raspberry purée to a boil.  I just wanted to avoid boiling it a lot in the act of reducing it.  I love @JeanneCake's mention of the strainer.  I think seeding raspberries must be one of the worst kitchen tasks imaginable.

[Jim D.]

48 minutes ago, JeanneCake said:

I go through far too much puree for our cakes/mousse/etc so I'm buying Ponthier or Boiron instead of making my own.

 

So do you boil those purées down to reduce them?  I suppose they could be thickened in other ways.

[JeanneCake]

@Jim D. no I don't reduce the purchased purees, they are ok for adding to buttercream or using as the base for marshmallows.  Some are more fluid than others, the raspberry and strawberry has some substance to it but they are still pretty fluid, compared to Boiron though, they're somewhat thicker.

 

If you're thawing/making your own rasp puree, try RBL's method; thaw the berries in a strainer over a bowl to capture the juices and use the  microwave to reduce the juice and see if that makes a difference for you. You can add sugar after reducing if you want to.   I've also learned that IQF fruit has a lot more flavor than fresh berries, even when frozen/thawed.  So saying "home grown berries" is no advantage here! LOL

[Jim D.]

1 hour ago, JeanneCake said:

@Jim D. no I don't reduce the purchased purees, they are ok for adding to buttercream or using as the base for marshmallows.  Some are more fluid than others, the raspberry and strawberry has some substance to it but they are still pretty fluid, compared to Boiron though, they're somewhat thicker.

 

If you're thawing/making your own rasp puree, try RBL's method; thaw the berries in a strainer over a bowl to capture the juices and use the  microwave to reduce the juice and see if that makes a difference for you. You can add sugar after reducing if you want to.   I've also learned that IQF fruit has a lot more flavor than fresh berries, even when frozen/thawed.  So saying "home grown berries" is no advantage here! LOL

 

Thanks for those insights.  I agree about home grown vs. frozen:  using fresh sounds good (and sometimes is better), but usually frozen has stronger flavor.  I read somewhere that when using fresh berries, freezing them first helps break down the cell walls.  I too drain the thawing berries, but your description of microwaving the juice sounds scary.  I'll give it a try some day when I am feeling very adventurous (and ready to clean a very messy microwave).  If it really does prevent the cooked taste, it's worth a try.  Have you ever used Valrhona's Framboise chocolate?  It's delicious and contributes a strong raspberry flavor, but it does have that same cooked taste.

[Jim D.]

On 10/5/2023 at 8:23 PM, JeanneCake said:

For what it's worth, in the Cake Bible, RLB uses the microwave to reduce the juice for her raspberry and strawberry purees because it doesn't caramelize and get a "cooked" taste.  She thawed frozen berries in a strainer/basket, and reduced the liquid, then mixed the strained solids with the reduced juice.  I would put a huge glass measuring bowl/cup in the microwave with the juice and it seemed to take *forever* for it to reduce (and it would bubble up like it was going to go over the top!) but it worked.  I even scored a vintage Cuisinart strainer insert on eBay at her recommendation and it absolutely produced a silky smooth puree, no seeds at all!  I go through far too much puree for our cakes/mousse/etc so I'm buying Ponthier or Boiron instead of making my own.

 

We can file this post under "You're never too old to learn a new trick with confectionery":  I used RLB's raspberry purée method (via @JeanneCake) for my raspberry cream (a recipe originally from @Kerry Beal).  I kept the raspberry juice in the purée (an idea from @pastrygirl), then reduced the purée in the microwave.  The flavor was a revelation--no cooked taste at all, strong raspberry flavor.  As Jeanne warned, the reducing process is tedious and could be rather messy--though I reduced the microwave power so that the raspberries didn't boil over.  Thanks to all concerned.

[OlyveOyl]

I like to run a stick of butter along the inside edge of the bowl, it acts as a barrier to boil over.

[Jim D.]

37 minutes ago, Jim D. said:

I reduced the purée in the microwave.  The flavor was a revelation--no cooked taste at all, strong raspberry flavor.  

 

Does anyone know why the cooked taste doesn't happen in the microwave?

[JeanneCake]

RLB says (in the raspberry puree recipe in the Cake BIble) that it's because the microwave doesn't caramelize the juice so you don't get the cooked taste doing it that way.  Her original recipe only made about a cup of puree, and when I was doing it (I used to double the recipe), I used the biggest Pyrex glass measure I had which was 8 cups  I think?   It was  kind of fun to watch it bubble, once I realized it wasn't going to bubble over and make a mess!

 

I'm glad it worked for you; I agree it's a great raspberry flavor

[jauhe]

Another question about fruit puree. I live outside the US/Canada and it's hard to get fresh or frozen fruit purees or concentrates. I see Boiron sells pasteurized shelf-stable fruit purees. Are those a good alternative to the fresh or frozen ones, or is there a big difference in flavor or quality? I assume I could buy a carton, open and immediately divide it into containers to freeze, and use it little by little over time?