How we ate growing up

[scamhi]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Long Island Middle Class Jewish

Was meal time important?

Very important we always ate together as a family

Was cooking important?

Very important my Mother was a gifted cook

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Gentle chastising.."Suzanne , suzanne strong and able take those elbows off the table"

Who cooked in the family?

Mom until she died in 1968, then Dad took over..then we ate alot of steak and cake

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

For birthdays and special occasions we'd always go out and also on Sunday night to the local Cantonese restaurant...Jade Garden

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No, we were fed before

When did you get that first sip of wine? I think I was about 13 or 14

Was there a pre-meal prayer?Nope

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)? We had a vast repertoire of foods and cuisines French Italian and Chinese. I can remember the roast pork hanging for hooks in the oven.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

We eat out more. We eat breakfast as a family every weekday morning and dinner most nights together. We eat way later than I did growing up. My kids 16 and 13 are used to waiting til as late as 9pm to have dinner. This Mom works.

[gknl]

I'm really enjoying this thread, so I thought it was only fair to contribute too. And it needed to get bumped back to active topics.

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My father is much more open to different tastes and foods than my mother is, but that didn't matter when it came to eating at home very much. Dad's Irish-German-American and mom's Japanese-American so it was a weird mix of basic middle-class American fare with Japanese-American twists, especially rice. For example, spaghetti sauce (basic meat and tomato) over rice. Chili over rice. Beef stew over rice. Dinty Moore beef stew over rice. Steak and rice. Hamburger and rice. I used to love raw egg on hot rice. A lot of processed food too. Hamburger Helper was prominent as were Swansen's tv dinners. And Top Ramen noodles. Adventurous eating was mostly reserved for restaurants.

At the family get-togethers (all mom's family since dad's an only child and she's the youngest of 7) there was a lot of weird pickled and fishy Japanese stuff I still don't like to this day. My grandmother once put a fistful of sushi right in the middle of my mashed potatoes and gravy and I had to eat it. Blech. When I was 15, my dad joined the army and we were stationed in Germany. It didn't really change eating at home because of the commissary. I do remember how much better the milk and butter were there though.

Was meal time important?

Not particularly. My mother worked in my father's office for several years, so they were usually home late. My sister and I fought constantly too, so it was probably easier for everyone not having everyone together. A few years ago, I was house-sitting for my parents and had some friends over for dinner. As we were sitting down at the dining room table, one of them asked me if I had a usual seat. I said "yes, downstairs in front of the tv." Even after we moved to Germany, we didn't really make it a point to have sit-down dinners with everyone.

Was cooking important?

Not particularly. One of my mother's tricks was when she had to cook, she'd make a hideously huge batch of whatever and we'd end up eating it 3 or 4 days in a row. It wasn't that she was an awful cook, she just didn't like to do it, so she did it as little as possible with as little effort as possible. She would make something she called "okazu" a lot. Basically ground beef fried with onions and carrots and celery and whatever other vegetables were around, usually some potatoes too, in a soy-based sauce, sometimes teriyaki, sometimes just soy. Served over rice of course. Most of the time, my sister and I would say we wanted tv dinners when we were asked what we wanted to have. I think the appeal was being able to get what you wanted which made it seem more like eating out, which was always our first preference.

I remember when I was 7, one of my classmates had some cake that was really good. I asked him where he bought it and he said his mother made it. I went home, excitedly telling my mother that she could make cakes at home. She went to the cupboard and pulled down a mix and said "I'm going to show you how to do this once. If you want cake, then you can do it yourself." As I got older and started cooking, a lot of times I'd make something from scratch and then they'd buy a mix from the store because they liked what I made but the mix was a lot easier. Actually, they still do that.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Manners were important when we did manage to eat together. If we wouldn't eat properly, then it meant we weren't hungry and we had to leave the table. I learned early on and was embarrassed more than once by my friends' parents telling them to eat more like me. I do remember being mortified by my father's preference for the European "eat with the fork in the left hand" manner though, but soon came to prefer that myself. But I would switch to the American "eat with the fork in the right hand" when I was at other peoples' homes.

Who cooked in the family?

Mostly my mother, but my dad would cook fairly often too. Especially breakfasts. He was much more adventurous when he cooked too. As much as he likes to eat and enjoys different flavors, you'd think he'd like to cook more. But he doesn't.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

We ate out a lot and my sister and I would have eaten out even more. That's including fast food as eating out. But we'd also get Chinese and Japanese food a lot. One of my favorite things to do was to go to Japantown in San Francisco and see a samurai movie then eat beef teriyaki and tempura. The movie theater is now a Denny's which is really sad. There was also this restaurant, long gone and I can't remember the name, in Jack London Square that served buffalo steak, a huge porterhouse or t-bone cut. I loved that. For some reason, all the family banquets (wedding, funeral, or anniversary) were at Cantonese places, mostly the Silver Dragon in Oakland Chinatown. And one of my best friends was Chinese and his family had a business in SF Chinatown, so I'd get to go over there a lot. In Germany, we ate out a lot too. Gasthouse fare, mostly. Schnitzles rule. Over there they do anyway, they're not so good here.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Yes, but not always. At some friends of my parents though, everytime even though it was just the four adults and my sister and I.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

My parents were willing to give me tastes of everything, so I imagine it was very young. They tell a story about when I was two and they had a party and they noticed I was very red and acting strangely. Turns out I had made the rounds asking people for sips of their drinks and enough of them complied to get me drunk. Probably explains a lot about my mental development.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Nope. It was an agnostic household. Both parents grew up in somewhat fundamentalist Christian sects and wanted us to find our own way to religion.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Meals were never that structured.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I would say much of it is replicated, but not exactly. I still eat too casually, in front of the tv, instead of savoring the food as a meal. I try to be better about it though. A lot of time my girlfriend and I will "eat civilized" which means sitting at the table instead of in front of the tv. Unless there's something really important on, of course. And I try not to eat a lot of processed food, but since I work nights, it's hard not just to nuke something when I get home.

I really do enjoy the cooking process though. I get pleasure and satisfaction from executing a dish or a meal beyond just the end result of how it tastes. I think that's what my parents lack more than anything else. I just wish I had more time for it.

Also, my girlfriend is not an adventurous eater at all. She'd be more than happy to live on basic American processed food. But I'm working on her. And I do eat out a lot. I still use restaurants as a staple and not just for special occasions. Some old habits die hard. I think it's eating in restaurants that spurred my interest in cooking. Being able to appreciate certain tastes and wanting to recreate them at home was a big part, especially once I was in college and fending for myself.

[Suvir Saran]

When I was 15, my dad joined the army and we were stationed in Germany.  It didn't really change eating at home because of the commissary.  I do remember how much better the milk and butter were there though.

How I miss good milk and butter as well.

What can we do???

[gknl]

When I was 15, my dad joined the army and we were stationed in Germany.  It didn't really change eating at home because of the commissary.  I do remember how much better the milk and butter were there though.

How I miss good milk and butter as well.

What can we do???

I broke down and bought some Strauss Family Organic half and half last week, but couldn't really tell the difference in my coffee. I've read their butter is good (Nick Gatti had it at Chez Panisse from what I recall), but I haven't been able to bring myself to buy any yet. Mostly out of fear that once I try it, I'll have to have it.

[Suvir Saran]

When I was 15, my dad joined the army and we were stationed in Germany.  It didn't really change eating at home because of the commissary.  I do remember how much better the milk and butter were there though.

How I miss good milk and butter as well.

What can we do???

I broke down and bought some Strauss Family Organic half and half last week, but couldn't really tell the difference in my coffee. I've read their butter is good (Nick Gatti had it at Chez Panisse from what I recall), but I haven't been able to bring myself to buy any yet. Mostly out of fear that once I try it, I'll have to have it.

Guess I will have to try and see if I can find it in NYC..

Will let you know. Also do post after you try it.. would be curious to see what you think.

I used to drink half a gallon of plain milk each day whilst living in India. Now I do not drink any milk in months... I have no taste for this milk. Find it quite sad actually.. So I keep myself away from it.

[Kikujiro]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

We lived in London and, for a few years, Palo Alto. We generally ate dinner together as a family from quite early in my life. My parents' cooking changed over the years. I remember earlier dishes like spinach and cheddar pie, 'Mexican pie' (like Shepherds Pie but with stuff like red beans in), and a 'Chinese' chicken salad (sesame oil, etc). From recent shifting about of boxes of old books, I know that Conran, Delia Smith and Sunset magazine were all eary sources. We ate dim sum and dinner in Chinese restaurants from CA onwards, so when I was about 5. We ate out in London too. As I got older we spent a lot of holidays in Italy and like the rest of the country incorporated a lot of pasta into our diet, except we did it fairly well quite early on. Pasta and fresh tomato sauce was probably the first thing I learned to cook with confidence. My parents' cooking developed and got more contemporary and confident over time: fish and meat raw or cooked rare, and so on. Annual trips to Venice brought lots of risotti and yet more fish into the mix.

Was meal time important?

Yes, it was usually a whole-family thing at least.

Was cooking important?

I think my mum (who cooked most when I was younger) cared a lot about our diets. My dad was always the pastry chef.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Occasional requests not to.

Who cooked in the family?

My mum when I was a kid; later both my parents and ultimately all of us.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Fairly common.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No, only my grandparents did that.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Fairly early at a family event is my guess. Can't remember.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Not exactly, but there was a repertoire of repeated meals at the core.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

As I live by myself, not that much ... except I think it's responsible both for the frequency with which I eat out, the attention I try to pay to what I eat (in terms of health and of quality of ingredients), and my enjoyment of cooking. Oh, and my love of Chinese food, perhaps

Edited December 9, 2002 by Kikujiro (log)

[kitchenbabe]

This is a great thread...I wanna answer these questions then read everyone elses'

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

Basic American Comfort food...Minute Steak, Chicken and Noodles, Meatloaf, etc....like I said, my father is from West Virginia, so his palate was very meat and potatoes...that dictated alot of our meals.

Was meal time important?

Pretty much...when my brother and I were little, we didn't do alot of activities, so being at home for dinner was routine. It wasn't until I got older that I realized how "abnormal" that is for some people...

Was cooking important?

It was a means to an end, mostly. I know now how much my mother truly enjoys it most of the time, but years ago it was just something mom did...

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

A stern look, maybe a "get your elbows of the table"...they tried to teach us manners, but weren't militant about it...

Who cooked in the family?

Mom. Sometimes I'd get to peel carrots or make rice or (gasp...instant) mashed potatoes. When we got older and did the "latchkey" routine, there were alot of nights I'd have to put something in the oven when I got home from school to be ready when mom and dad got home from work...it was usually somethng simple that I couldn't totally mess up. She'd have a roast in a pan with all the veggies, and a note "350 degrees, at 4 pm" or something.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Early on, very special occasions....birthdays, opening night for a big movie, etc. Then we started going out for dinner every Friday night and my brother and I would take turns choosing where to go.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Only if the number of guests outnumbered available space. But almost always on holidays.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Don't remember. I grew up Catholic, so it was part of Sunday mass already. Probably in my junior high years on a sneak.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Like I said, I grew up Catholic, so yes, every night. It was always accompanied by a special blessing for holidays.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Sometimes. Mom usually tried to keep it different. Just before I moved away from home, Mom got on this "Meatloaf every Sunday" kick. and no, that wasn't why I left home... ;P

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Well, I cook and my husband does the dishes, that's new. But with my schedule, I only get to cook once or twice a week, so I try to make good healthy food, meat/starch/veg type stuff. That's from growing up. I try to make sure the rare instances he gets home cooking counts for something. It's just the two of us, so there's not the sense of "let's all gather 'round the table and talk about our day" thing. It's pretty different, I guess. We talk while I cook, usually opening a bottle of wine at that point. Most of the time we're sitting down during primetime, so we watch whatever is "must see" that night. Every once in a while I'll get tired of that routine and plan a full three course meal and tell him "no tv". We'll put on music, put candles on the table and be adults. That's just as nice. I see cooking dinner as a way of expression, showing him how much I care and enjoy his company. The experience is as much in the preparation as the meal itself.

[IsItSoupYet?]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My mother was of Irish/German descent, but could make one heck of a spaghetti sauce. She also spent her childhood and teen years in Florida when it was still the deep South, so a lot of Southern food was on our menu as well. I have friends who still remember her fried chicken, sauerbraten and potato pancakes vividly.

Was meal time important?

Yep. Every night at six o'clock, except for Sundays, when it was dependent on what sort of sporting event was on TV. Mom was expert at timing autumn Sunday dinners for halftime of the football game.

Was cooking important?

Very important. No take-out in our house!

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Death. No, actually the rules were pretty loose.

Who cooked in the family?

Mom, although as my sisters and I got older we would get a meal started which Mom would finish after she got home from work. After Mom died, my sisters, then me. Despite the fact that my brother never cooked while we were growing up, he's a good cook now, probably because his wife doesn't cook.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occasions?

Special occasions and vacations.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Yep. Being the youngest in the family, I sat there for what seemed like decades.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

My parents weren't big drinkers, so the first sip I remember was at a bar mitzvah for my mother's friend's son when I was six. I thought it was really sour grape juice.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

In spite of my mother being a pretty heavy-duty Catholic, we only said grace on Thanksgiving.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

We would eat a lot of the same things, but the closest we came was having spaghetti pretty much every Saturday and some sort of roast every Sunday.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I still cook every night except for Saturday date night, and we eat at the table (unless there's a really good football game on, heh heh).

Edited December 12, 2002 by IsItSoupYet? (log)

[SpicyJenny]

My mother was an excellent cook. I probably didn't notice that until we lived in Connecticut and "we" were married to our step-father who loved us and our mother and her food very much.

The primary culture was American with the emphasis on Italian. The Kids, during the week, ate in the kitchen and the Grown Ups at in the living room after the Kids were done. Yes, there was prayer. And a dachound dog under the table for those items on our plates that were just too weird. Yes, manners were very much inforced. No dessert being the primary punishment.

On Sunday nights, my Pop would char grill something. In summer, outdoors;

in the winter in the living room fireplace. The Sunday meals were grilled steak (or other meat), rice and salad.

On special occasions and when we traveled as a family, we all went out to dine. My folks dined out frequently, as a couple, so it was a treat when we all went out.

I loved so very much those occasions that we dined in restaurant, whether for breakfast at varous I-Hops on the way to Mexico, or at dining spots on the way to or from ski-resorts in western Connecticut, Massachusetts or Vermont. I loved, especially, those occasions when asked, "What would you like to do for your birthday?", and I would answer, "Go out to dinner."

[SpicyJenny]

My mother was an excellent cook. I probably didn't notice that until we lived in Connecticut and "we" were married to our step-father who loved us and our mother and her food very much.

The primary culture was American with the emphasis on Italian. The Kids, during the week, ate in the kitchen and the Grown Ups at in the living room after the Kids were done. Yes, there was prayer. And a dachound dog under the table for those items on our plates that were just too weird. Yes, manners were very much inforced. No dessert being the primary punishment.

On Sunday nights, my Pop would char grill something. In summer, outdoors;

in the winter in the living room fireplace. The Sunday meals were grilled steak (or other meat), rice and salad.

On special occasions and when we traveled as a family, we all went out to dine. My folks dined out frequently, as a couple, so it was a treat when we all went out.

I loved so very much those occasions that we dined in restaurant, whether for breakfast at varous I-Hops on the way to Mexico, or at dining spots on the way to or from ski-resorts in western Connecticut, Massachusetts or Vermont. I loved, especially, those occasions when asked, "What would you like to do for your birthday?", and I would answer, "Go out to dinner."

This was when I met my first "pepperoncino" and my love of chile peppers began. I might have been sweet sixteen at the time when we went to Greenwich, CT and had a wonderful meal at an inn by the water. The rest is history. Thanks to my mother's wonderful cooking and my father's appreciation for wonderful food, I craved, and still do, lovely dining experiences in my home and in restaurants.

[maggiethecat]

Thanks to my mother's wonderful cooking and my father's appreciation for wonderful food, I craved, and still do, lovely dining experiences in my home and in restaurants.

That seems to be the theme here. We love food because:

1)Our family included wonderful cooks and eating well was important

or

2)We ate horrid food growing up, and the revelation that is good food changed our lives.

[Wilfrid]

Without going back and reading what I said, my response to Maggie's comment is that, for me, it was a bit of each. Some very good cooking at home (not always, but often) and in the occasional restaurant, and devastatingly bad cooking at school and in many other restaurants.

[La Niña]

This is very interesting, since my mother will surely read this post. But here goes, as incomplete as it will be:

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

My family is Ashkenazi (eastern European) Jews, and I'm first generation on both sides. We had slavic food influences - both Russian and Polish, on one side - and Hungarian and Austrian on the other side. We also ate plenty of German and French food, and dabbled in other cuisines food. My mother made riistaafel, for example. I don't remember a time when we didn't have an international, eclectic table full of interesting, varied food. We ate at home a lot, and we also went out. I was restaurant-experienced before I could talk. We also traveled in Europe quite a bit when I was a child, so I got used to eating lots of different things, in many different environments.

Was meal time important?

Most of the time, yes. We generally ate together, although I don't recall that this was some kind of hard and fast rule. On Friday nights we almost always had a traditional Shabbes meal (ritual Jewish stuff, though we were not at all "religious.") I learned to cook at a young age, so it was not uncommon for me or my sisters to make dinner for the family, usually with some help. We enjoyed it.

Was cooking important?

Yes, important in that it happened a lot. But it wasn't "holy." It was a fact of life.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

I think we got told not to, but nothing terrible happened if we did. We did get told about how to hold our cutlery a lot. Manners were a big deal in general, but I don't recall the elbows thing specifically.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother, us (the kids), my father sometimes, our au pairs. I became somewhat of a sandwich maven at some point early on, and used to make lunchbox lunches for my sisters with some frequency. I also put myself in charge of our after-school snack a lot of the time. We didn't have junk food in the house, so I used to make things like creme patissiere and meringues.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occasions?

Common. Fancier ones for special occasions. And of course on vacation.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No, never. We were integrated into all the events. We usually served canapes and such to the grownup guests when my parents had parties. And we helped.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I was too young to remember. My parents frequently drank wine with meals, and I think I had a sip from the time I was very young. It was never an issue.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Yes, on Friday evenings. And on Jewish holidays.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

No, but we had our favorites in rotation fairly frequently. We were just talking the other day about how we loved this "poor man's" sort of carbonara/alfredo dish - it was spiral pasta, cream, butter, peas, and pieces of ham.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Well, I definitely love to eat with people. In my family, meal time was a very social time. We caught up, shmoozed, entertained and harassed each other. My meals are social events. I still love to have meals with my family whenever possible, and my boyfriend and I try to eat together most evenings, time and schedules permitting. When we don't go out, I generally do the cooking. I eat with friends, too, frequently. We had lots of guests when I was a kid. People came over to eat all the time, often spontaneously. So now I organize meals with people, I invite people, I invite myself over to other people's houses...

Edited December 20, 2002 by La Niña (log)

[KarenS]

I came from the freaky family. My mom made us meudo so many times -trying to slip the tripe in. I have been using chopsticks as long as knives and forks.

Very often I prefer the chopsticks (they are cleaner).

Did we have prayers? (we were raised Unitarian). War is wrong. Life is about love and rebirth.

I love the fact that I sell my great-great-great-grandmothers cookies everday (and people love them). I rejoice in the fact that I have inherited this gift for the love of cooking. My mom has eaten once at McDonalds in entire life.. For me, the last time was 20 years ago. I never eat fast food, it is not a part of my life.

[torakris]

My grandfather just passed away 3 months ago and last week my grandmother,mom and dad and mom's three siblings all went down to Florida to close up their house their and bring the stuff up to their house here in Cleveland.

A lot of the stuff was given away except for the valuable things acquired on trips abroad and other sentimental type things.

My grandmother gave to me 3 cookbooks, Joy of Cooking, Fannie Farmers and one of James Beard. These are the books she used as a newly married woman and as I was paging through them I noticed handwritten remarks next to many recipes. This is something I do as well. I always write comments next to recipes, noting if it was good or bad, suggestions for improvements or serving suggestions. No one else in my family and none of my friends do this. It actually brought tears to my eyes to read the notes, not only do we both write in cookbooks but we write exactly the same things! Some of the writings were recent as well, one of the coconut tarts had a note saying she made it again at Christmas 98 and that the changes she had noted years earlier were just perfect.

My grandmother is my greatest inspiration for cooking and I often strive to make something just like Grandma's, now I know I always will be able to.

Edited December 20, 2002 by torakris (log)

[La Niña]

I remembered a funny story. I guess I must have been about 6, and my friend Mary was sleeping over. We got up in the early morning and I wanted to make crepes for breakfast and I didn't want to wake my parents. So I went about my business - started making the batter in the blender as we usually did, and my parents woke up from the noise of the blender - I had never used it by myself before (and I guess I wasn't supposed to). I didn't understand what all the fuss was - I had done it many times before - of course there had been an adult in the room. Anyway, after everybody calmed down, I made the crepes for everybody.

[Suvir Saran]

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No, never.  We were integrated into all the events.  We usually served canapes and such to the grownup guests when my parents had parties.  And we helped.

How funny we had the same thing happen in my families house.

We served the guests and helped in all ways.. and it was our way of being helpful and also being a part of our parents lives.

I am so glad we could do that. And I encourage all my friends to do the same with their kids.

It is great education, one schools and books will never be able to impart.

Nina, would it be too much to ask for some names and descriptions of dishes that were served at traditional Shabbes meals? It would be fascinating to learn more. I hope you do not find it too personal. If you do, please ignore this.

[hensonville]

I have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated this thread. Thankyou all. I want now to post about two men I know. (I'll write about myself another time.)

They were born in 1927 in New York, one in Brooklyn and one in the Bronx. Their mothers cooked and ate with the children; the fathers worked late.

The boys were skinny. Meat was boiled to capture the blood, and the skinny boys drank this liquid.

They drank a great deal of whole milk; after school it was drunk with cupcakes or Twinkies. They ate a pretty steady rotation of liver and onions, overcooked pot roast, baked chicken, and lamb chops. Canned peas and canned peas and carrots were common. A treat was canned spinach mixed with mashed potatoes.

Red Jello with canned fruit cocktail in it was big as was Mytifine Chocolate pudding.

They had treats from the bakery as well.

They went out to Chinese restaurants on Sunday. They drank only a little and early. Manners were important.

I write this because I think it so typifies an era and a group experience of New York of that time. Anyone else?

[maggiethecat]

Hensonille: thnks for your evocative post. Although my culinary upbringing was different, you have captured perfectly the experience and foods of your time.

All that milk. I still say it's not a bad idea! And the red jello with fruit cocktail..THAT I remember!

[Suvir Saran]

I have thoroughly enjoyed and appreciated this thread. Thankyou all. I want now to post about two men I know. (I'll write about myself another time.)

They were born in 1927 in New York, one in Brooklyn and one in the Bronx. Their mothers cooked and ate with the children; the fathers worked late.

The boys were skinny. Meat was boiled to capture the blood, and the skinny boys drank this liquid.

They drank a great deal of whole milk; after school it was drunk with cupcakes or Twinkies. They ate a pretty steady rotation of liver and onions, overcooked pot roast, baked chicken, and lamb chops. Canned peas and canned peas and carrots were common. A treat was canned spinach mixed with mashed potatoes.

Red Jello with canned fruit cocktail in it was big as was Mytifine Chocolate pudding.

They had treats from the bakery as well.

They went out to Chinese restaurants on Sunday. They drank only a little and early. Manners were important.

I write this because I think it so typifies an era and a group experience of New York of that time. Anyone else?

And what do these two men eat today?

What has been passed onto their next generation?

A great post. Thanks for sharing.

When are you sharing your own experiences from growing up?

[Pan]

I see I've never posted in this thread, so though my reply is late, what the hell?

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I guess eclectic would be the best way to put it. My mother was responsible for most of the cooking during my childhood, though my father also cooked. Typical meals were roastbeef and creamed spinach or/and broccoli; pasta (often ziti or rigatoni, my favorites) with tomato sauce with or without meatballs, or with meat sauce (based on recipes from Il Talismano della Cucina as put out by Ronzoni in English translation); pot roast; meatloaf; and roast chicken with potatoes and sweet potatoes. Cucumbers were sliced for my vegetables, or/and broccoli was boiled (later, steamed) for the whole family; there was also a dish of sauteed zucchini or/and yellow squash slices with oregano, onions, sometimes tomato or/and mushrooms, and sometimes little bits of bacon; my brother preferred creamed spinach. Other dishes my mother cooked in my childhood included goulash, coc au vin, boeuf bourguignon, Swedish lamb (cooked with carrots, onions, etc., and coffee and cream [she used milk instead] - surprisingly delicious), beef stew with quinces and flat beer (boeuf a la flamande), Bulgarian chicken stew with a tomato base and chestnuts, which she always accompanied with a casserole of potato slices with yogurt and pepper, and Tandoori dishes such as could be approximated in an old gas oven. In those days, my mother still ate pig, and it was not unusual for us to have ham with canned pineapple slices for a main dinner course.

My father cooked eggs and bacon or fried eggs for quick breakfasts, but on weekends, he cooked a "special egg" dish based on an Italian recipe. It had a lot of butter in it, and also anchovy paste, and my brother and I liked it a lot. He also flambeed kidneys with brandy and served them over toast, and cooked calf's liver with red wine and some kind of herb (dried basil?).

Later, my mother got better and better Chinese and Indian cookbooks and added dishes like Hot and Sour Soup, Ma-Po Tofu, Chicken with Chestnuts Chinese style (Cantonese, I think), Chettinad Chicken with urad dal, spinach with mustard seeds, etc.

My father gradually took over more cooking and has cooked almost every meal for the two of them (and guests when they come over) since 1992. He cooks mostly Indian and Chinese food.

Was meal time important?

Yes. We were to eat at the table and had to turn off the TV.

Was cooking important?

Yes.

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

I don't recall. I remember people saying not to put elbows on the table, but I'm not sure who said that or whether my parents ever did or not. I sort of dimly remember them saying that and then putting their own elbows on the table, so that I called them hypocritical. I think I'll ask them the next time I remember to think of it.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

They occupied sort of a middle position between those two extremes, I think. We ate dinner at home most of the time, but going to a local Chinese restaurant or to the nearest Jewish deli, Gitlitz, didn't necessite dressing up and didn't have to be "justified" as a celebration of something or other.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No. My parents noted other families that did that and sometimes warned us that if we didn't behave, they'd be forced to make us eat after they were finished, but I can't remember them ever following up on that. They really didn't approve of that practice.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

Probably at a Seder. I suppose I may have been about 12.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

Usually there wasn't. We weren't that religious, though a Sabbath service was often done on Friday nights, and that included prayers for wine/grape juice and food.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

I don't think it was that simple ever.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

I live by myself now and eat out and get delivery constantly. My parents don't eat the same foods they used to, in great part because my father can't, with his various dietary restrictions, but also because they like Indian and Chinese food very much. But they also still like pasta with tomato sauce and still typically make the tomato sauce themselves, as always.

I think that the way I'm continuing in my family food culture is that I have wide tastes in food just like my parents did. They told me that when they were courting each other, they frequently went to a cheap Greek restaurant, and they also went to one of the two Indian restaurants in Manhattan at the time. My mother had previously gone to the other one, the Karachi Rice Shop, which still existed when I was in high school (on W. 46 St.), and briefly dated the son of the owner. My parents have travelled widely and explored different foods, and so have I.

Edited January 28, 2003 by Pan (log)

[maggiethecat]

Pan: You seem to have had an extremely good culinary upbringing! That Bulgarian chicken stew sounds especially interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

[nerissa]

This is probably the easiest way to introduce myself. Great thread!

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up in Charleston, SC during the 80s/early90s: daughter of bohemian-preppies. Mother accomplished French cook; she is a "northerner". Daddy was more adventurous; he handled the oysters, the smoking of the meats, and cleaning of the dove/deer/quail. He grew up with servants and swore he would never have them in his own house. I used to go to my grandparent's for traditional 2 pm supper: gumbo and rice, usually. I also grew up in a time when the old rice culture was on its way out. Charleston is not the same place these days. My father's family worships rice. There is an old joke about what do the...nevermind.

My parents threw a lot of parties, being in the arts business, and one of their close friends ran a vegetable distribution company for restaurants so we got to know chefs well and tried the "exotic" vegetables. My father and I used to go on bbq trips throughout South Carolina and Georgia when I was in my teens.

Was meal time important?

My parents firmly believed in eating with the children, no matter how exasperating.

Was cooking important?

Extremely. My parents are really into food as cures for health problems. (that and "have you been to the bathroom?" when you say you are not feeling well.)

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

Oh, absolutely. Still are. Physical.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother did day-to-day mostly, although my parents did and still do cook together.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Pretty common, as Charleston has a big scene. Since my parents knew people in the business, we were always trying some Thai, Vietnamese, or some bbq joint.

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

No. My parents also had the children serve and clear the table. As Suvir says above, it was a great education. We always had to sit with the grown-ups

When did you get that first sip of wine?

I was probably 16, though I had my first sip of beer with my father when I was 11.My parents also believed in teaching their daughters how to drink.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

No.

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

Yes- cheese/brocoli or spinach souflee, spahgetti, egg rolls, roast chicken, hamburgers, scrod, lamb chops, and steak. We ate a lot of rice. My father is very serious about how rice is cooked. The only way I could ever make my father truly angry as a child was if I opened the pot of rice before it was done.

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

Pretty similar--in terms of the dinner parties where the goal is to over-serve wine, and attempting French basics. It's funny because my live with boyfriend is of Southern Indian descent and so our food heritage backgrounds are pretty dissimilar. But, we are both obsessed with eating and food--we share cooking and cleaning. Because of geography, I haven't be able to replicate all the seafood my parents served or the southern debauchery of shrimp and grits brunches.

Edited January 28, 2003 by nerissa (log)

[seawakim]

What was your family food culture when you were growing up?

I grew up in Germany eating a lot of the regional dishes, but my mother also ventured into exotic cooking frequently. We had dishes from Italy, France, Middle-East, Asia, Africa, etc. She covered a rather large spectrum in her cooking. She really enjoyed long, lavish meals and she frequently entertained.

Was meal time important?

Meal time was hugely important to my family. I hardly remember a time were we didn't all eat together at

least once a day. This is something that I'd like to keep up when I have a family of my own someday.

Was cooking important?

yes

What were the penalties for putting elbows on the table?

There was discipline for that in our house.

Who cooked in the family?

My mother cooked most of the meals. On rare occasion my father would cook a time consuming but delicious Gulasch.

Were restaurant meals common, or for special occassions?

Yes, a lot of the extended family would get together at restaurants for birthday. We would be a party of 30 or more....it was great!

Did children have a "kiddy table" when guests were over?

Only if there wasn't enough room for everyone at one table.

When did you get that first sip of wine?

probably 6 yrs old or so. Drinking was no big deal in Germany and most of the kids were allowed to join in on the occasional Jaegermeister, etc. Interestingly enough, most of us don't care for alcohol too much now that we are of "legal" drinking age.

Was there a pre-meal prayer?

no, but it would have been nice

Was there a rotating menu (e.g., meatloaf every Thursday)?

no

How much of your family culture is being replicated in your present-day family life?

unfortunately none. I really miss it, but my husband and I don't have any family here and we don't have children.

[JAZ]

Both my parents have a primarily German American background, so Mom cooked a lot of sausages and kraut, potato pancakes, roasted pork, braised cabbage. But she always liked “foreign” foods and was willing to try anything that sounded good: ponsit, stir-fried beef and peppers, chicken cacciatore. Anything too “exotic” was reserved for the times that Dad was traveling (he’s more a meat and potatoes kind of guy) or when we had company, when I guess Mom figured that Dad couldn’t complain without appearing churlish. I can remember with crystal clarity the night (mid 60’s) when she tried cheese fondue for the first time. My grandparents were in town, and my oldest sister’s boyfriend had been invited for dinner. The details are best left unspoken, but we finally resorted to using scissors to cut the fondue.

Mostly, though, my mother was and is a very good cook (she figured out the trick to fondue and made it like a pro in the 70’s). Dinners could be anything from macaroni and cheese to chicken and dumplings to rolled stuffed flank steak (special occasion fare), but whatever she cooked was always at least pretty good, often excellent. Meals weren’t terribly fancy during the week, but we had a lot of variety. Since Mexican food (American style, of course) was the one “foreign” food my Dad liked, we had tacos, chiles rellenos, and enchiladas more often than any other ethnic food.

Dad cooked too, but rarely. He made really great fudge, and a couple of times a year he’d make navy bean soup with ham hocks. His main contribution to the table was produce from his annual summer garden. We had fresh corn, peas, zucchini, cucumbers, radishes, carrots and tomatoes all summer long every summer since I can remember. Poor Dad (a farm boy at heart) used to try to interest us in farming, but we’d only do what we were forced to, weeding mostly. (Well, except for his attempt one summer to hitch my sister and me up to an old tiller he’d found so we could plow the garden – but that’s another story entirely.)

The dinner ritual was pretty traditional in my family. I’m sure that we didn’t all eat together every single night, but that’s the recollection I have. Dad got home from work at about 5:30 and we ate at about 6, at the table. We rarely ate out. Sundays we had a big breakfast after going to Mass, and a special dinner (china and nice silverware and all) served earlier than weekday dinners. We said grace every single evening, and although I am no longer religious, I can still recite it. I suppose it’s indicative of our dinners that when I was little and my parents went out, my three older siblings still served dinner at the table and made sure we ate the way we did when my parents were present.

When we had company, we kids mostly ate with the adults. The exception was the bridge/dinner parties my parents gave. My sister and I (elementary and junior high school age during this period) loved these evenings, because we got to eat dinner in the family room and watch TV. Heaven!

When I was 10 or 12, my parents (oops! Santa) gave my sister and me an Easy Bake Oven for Christmas. I don’t know who remembers those contraptions, but they used a 100-watt light bulb to bake, and came with little pans and cake mixes and recipes. Along with the oven we received a supplemental children’s baking set complete with miniature pie and muffin pans, cookie sheets, mixing bowls, spoons, and spatulas. We’d been hounding my mother for the oven for months, and we used it constantly, making lots of weird little cakes and brownies, which tasted about as good as you’d expect a cake mix baked by a light bulb would taste. But it was a start.

Whether because of that or because she always let us but never forced us to help her cook, we all developed some degree of flair in the kitchen, and a love of food. My memories of vacations are mostly family get-togethers (Mom’s side – Dad’s relatives were much less fun) on the Oregon coast, where the men fished and the women cooked (well, they mostly played bridge on the beach till late afternoon; then they cooked). All of my siblings and I have grown up thinking of the kitchen as the center of the house. One of my sisters and her husband recently remodeled their kitchen and dining area, and I think it’s telling that they decided to knock out a wall so that the kitchen, dining and living areas are all basically one big room now. In fact, we all gathered up there for Thanksgiving. My sister (the hostess), Mom and I did most of the cooking, but everyone wandered in to help now and then, in between Boggle games. My Dad (now 83) peeled potatoes and offered advice; my brother and his youngest son made the gravy. We had to pull up an extra table and use every chair in the house, but everyone including my nephew’s 2-year old sat together.

And I realize I’ve been going on for a bit, but one last thing seems worth adding. Last year I had the idea for Mother’s Day to type up all of my mother’s recipes in the MasterCook software program I have and print them out for her. My original motivation was simply the fact that I’ve been watching her shuffle through index cards and clippings from magazines for years, and I just thought it would be nice for her to have them all printed out in book form. Naturally it took way longer than I anticipated, but I did finally get it all done just before the Thanksgiving get-together (like, the day before, but that’s also another story). But working on the project made me realize how many of those recipes were a part of my childhood, and seeing them all together in one book (well, two – she has a lot of recipes) was an amazing thing. It’s something I highly recommend for anyone who wants to preserve his or her own personal culinary history.

Edited January 29, 2003 by JAZ (log)