Woks - Buying, Care, and Use

[dcarch]

"Heat retention" is kind of a confusing term. Not very scientific IMHO.

1. Good heat retention can mean poor conductivity, not a very good quality for a cookware. It means slow heat recovery and uneven heat distribution.

2. Good heat retention can mean high specific heat. It mean it can store a lot of heat. Very good quality for a cookware. For instance, Aluminum is a better heat retention metal than cast iron.

Cast iron is a good "heat retention" cookware because it is very heavy. It is heavy because cast iron has to be made thick otherwise it will fall apart. It makes no sense to me to have a light cast iron wok. Why would you want a cookware that can crack and has less heat retention capability?

dcarch

[jsager01]

"------- with a flat bottom.----"

Why?

dcarch

There's very little room to nest a round bottomed wok on top of the gas rings. Thanks for your replies.

not sure what you mean by 'very little room to rest a round bottomed'... the diameter of a wok, whether round or flat bottomed is measured at the topmost diameter.

"------- with a flat bottom.----"

Why?

Nearly all domestic use woks on sale in China have flat bottoms these days. Why? To use on gas hobs and free standing induction heaters for hotpots. Round bottomed woks were designed for use with solid fuel stoves which are rarely seen now.

I've been struggling to find round bottomed woks for two to three years.

In a country as large and diverse as China, it is at best incorrect for anyone to say ' in china' to mean all of china, at worst? well..

If anyone, in China or anywhere else, really want round bottom woks, i know a friend of a friend who wholesales them, minimum 1000 pieces per order, and if you go thru me, my markup is 100% of delivered price. Its cheaper to go on alibaba.

In China (ie the parts of China i am most familiar with), round bottomed carbon steel woks on gas stoves are the norm. i have never seen a wok being used for hotpots, because in those parts of China, the pots used in hotpots have a dividing partition in the middle - such that one half is for the fiery hot, spicy stock, and the other half is for the no chilli stock, the yin and yang if you want to be corny about it.

I dont find heat retention an issue, wok stir fry, is essentially fast and quick, in minutes and not tens of minutes. One of the essential techniques in wok stir fry is to know when to introduce each of the ingredients separately - no one ever dumps all ingredients all at once, which will definitely cause a significant drop in temperature. Quick heat recovery (conductivity?) and wok stir fry techniques are what its all about.

Cast iron is heavy, and another essential technique in stir fry, is actually being able to flip the contents of the wok, making it more like flip fry than stir fry. Unless they have strong arms, I bet most users of cast iron woks just push the contents around, .. and yes they may also turn the ingredients around with the spatula.

I could be wrong, but i do not think that chinese restaurants in china or in the ' western' countries use cast iron woks, or flat bottomed woks, or induction cooking tops.

I have a 14 inch carbon steel wok (round bottomed) usually cooking for 2, that i have used regularly for the last 10+ years and still going strong with no problems of durability. I also have a 12 inch carbon steel that i have had for more than 15+ years, but i use that less frequently now, as i find that the extra size of the 14 inch makes it easier to flip.

[ojisan]

I use a 16" round bottom carbon steel wok that I use on an Eastman Big Kahuna propane burner. For indoor use on a gas or electric stove, I use a 12" Peking pan.

http://amzn.to/H4JKbE

Whatever you buy, get a lid - for fire safety.

[nickrey]

I don't know if it is the case in the US but home gas ranges here in Australia almost inevitably come with a metal device for the wok burner that holds a round bottomed wok perfectly.

It looks like this:

[MikeHartnett]

I don't know if it is the case in the US but home gas ranges here in Australia almost inevitably come with a metal device for the wok burner that holds a round bottomed wok perfectly.

It looks like this:

wok stand.jpg

We can only dream.

[Martin Fisher]

FWIW, Grace Young is one of the people who suggested a cast iron wok for those without a high BTU wok burner.

I'm no expert....I've never been to China and I will never be going to China.

I'm simply trying to do the best that I can with somewhat limited equipment.

[Norm Matthews]

My ex is Korean and we owned a Korean restaurant for about 5 years. She and her mom used carbon steel round bottom woks on our Garland commercial gas range and it was adequate but I was able to visit the kitchens of some Chinese restaurants and their wok stoves were like jet engines. I have no idea how many BTU's they had but I was also a potter who had 75,000 btu burners on my kiln and those wok suckers made mine look wimpy. I had a residential gas stove at home and it didn't put out enough heat to do a stir fry properly. I now have an electric stove and the wok is retired. I suppose I could use it outside nestled in a pile of charcoal but inside is a waste of time. I imagine a cast iron wok would be better able to handle a residential stove because though it would take longer to heat up. it will retain heat better. The carbon steel wok needs constant heat. I use a steel skillet with a copper core for that kind of cooking now days. It is the only pan that approaches the heat to properly do stir fry kind of cooking in a typical U.S. home.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Norm Matthews (log)

[liuzhou]

A 12" flat bottom wok is what I called a regular skillet. LOL!

dcarch

Very droll.

My wok is 14" (actually 35cm, which is a shade under) as measured at the top. It is the traditional wok shape but 6" (15cm) of the bas has been hammered flat. This is the most common type of wok available these days. In fact, I have just searched Taobao, China's top online shopping portal. All their woks seem to be flat bottomed.

The reason is simple. These free standing induction cookers have become widely popular, both in the home and in restaurants. The Taobao descriptions which I read I all point out that they are suitable for induction cookers as well as more traditional gas or solid fuel.

They can be set up on the table top and used to cook hotpots or whatever. They are also used in the kitchen. Cleaner and safer than gas.

However, they only work if the base is in full contact with the cooker, so a round bottomed wok, no matter how well balanced, simply wouldn't get hot.

The circle in the centre is 7" in diameter to cater for my wok's 6" flat section.

(Apologies for picture quality. The surface is highly reflective and very difficult to photograph.)

I could be wrong, but i do not think that chinese restaurants in china or in the ' western' countries use cast iron woks, or flat bottomed woks, or induction cooking tops.

I know many restaurants which use induction cookers to serve hotpots. I ate in one just last night. And I don't mean just in one part of China. I've seen them all over. Ten years ago they would have set up individual gas rings on each table, if they weren't already built in. Today, many places use induction, again either by bring a cooker to the table or by having them built in.

in those parts of China, the pots used in hotpots have a dividing partition in the middle - such that one half is for the fiery hot, spicy stock, and the other half is for the no chilli stock, the yin and yang if you want to be corny about it.

That is only one kind of hotpot. Many are done in woks, especially at home.

Also, I don't see anything corny about calling the one above 'ying-yang'. That is but one transliteration of the Chinese name, 鸳鸯火锅 (Pinyin:yuān yāng huǒ guō).

[Ader1]

FWIW, Grace Young is one of the people who suggested a cast iron wok for those without a high BTU wok burner.

I'm no expert....I've never been to China and I will never be going to China.

I'm simply trying to do the best that I can with somewhat limited equipment.

Thank you all for your really helpful replies. Until I get a high BTU burner, I think I'll go for a 14 inch flat bottomed cast iron wok.

That was interesting regarding the induction cookers and their use in Hot pot restaurants. I only saw ones with gas burners when I was in Chengdu last year. But I only visited 3 if I remember correctly and they were out in the suburbs. But I'm now digressing. But since hot pot was mentioned, does anybody know how to make the oily mixture you cook the food in? Maybe I should start another thread? In the China forum?

[liuzhou]

That was interesting regarding the induction cookers and their use in Hot pot restaurants. I only saw ones with gas burners when I was in Chengdu last year. But I only visited 3 if I remember correctly and they were out in the suburbs.

The gas ones are, I think, largely being replaced by induction cookers as they are cleaner, safer and 'more modern".

I spend a lot of time in very rural areas where most cooking is still done on solid fuel (largely self-foraged). A couple of weeks ago I was invited to dinner at a family home. The people are subsistence farmers. They cook over foraged wood and anything else they can find to burn. The hotpot base was prepared this way, but Mama very proudly plugged in her induction cooker at the centre of the table to serve the thing and keep it bubbling - yes, in a flat bottomed wok!

Oily mixture? Not what I would call it.

See Fuchsia Dunlop's "Land of Plenty: A Treasury of Authentic Sichuan Cooking" (US title) / "Sichuan Cookery" (UK title). Don't buy both as one friend did. They are the same book.

Her recipes are spot on the same as I have eaten in Sichuan.over the years.

Edited October 25, 2013 by liuzhou (log)

[jsager01]

If you are still considering what type of wok to buy you may want to consider what you want to do with the wok, ie what are you going to cook in it, how often, and your skill level in wok cooking. Bottom line, a wok is cheap enough that if you are not satisfied with the wok that you bought, it would not be a big deal to try another. It is not the same as deciding on buying a set of All Clad, or its competition.

In days gone by, the wok was the only cooking utensil, but i doubt if that is what you want. I would not use it as a steamer or do long acidic braises in it, as that will undo all the effort you would have made to season it, unless you want to re season it after each use. A regular chinese steamer is cheap enough that the only reason not to buy one is if you do not have the storage space for it, or if you do not steam cook.

hzrt8w, who used to be a prolific poster, uses a regular skillet or fry pan, and if i remember correctly on an electric ring stove. What i find interesting is that with minimal equipment, he could, with his skills, turn out fantastic Cantonese cuisine, or looks fantastic as i never had a chance to taste any of it.

With Cantonese stir fry there seems to be an obsession with mega BTUs. Of course a megaBTU heat source is important.... in a restaurant environment, or if you have the means to set it up in your home. Otherwise, i always say that you can get satisfactory wok hei even on the most anemic cook top, if, for example, you cook single portions or servings separately, and also add in each ingredient separately and not dump in all ingredients all at once; and some would say its a PITA if you are cooking for 4 or more.

And i would not use a wok as the pot in hotpot cooking. If you have a wok that is 12 or 14 inches in diameter balanced on a flat bottom of 6 inches, how stable would that configuration be? Especially in a boisterous environment, as most of my hotpot dinners are. The rate of evaporation in a wok will be such that you will have to prepare lots of stock in advance and be replenishing it frequently as it evaporates and condenses on the walls, etc. And how much do those dedicated pots for hotpots cost anyways? With or without the central divider? And if you want a multi-use pot, why not buy a fondue pot and then you can have all the cheese fondues, fondue bourguignonne, chinese hotpot, etc.

And if you want to know what kinds of woks are easily available in China, check out this search on taobao http://tinyurl.com/q2h8wsj , round bottoms are alive and well in China.

[liuzhou]

And if you want to know what kinds of woks are easily available in China, check out this search on taobao http://tinyurl.com/q2h8wsj , round bottoms are alive and well in China.

No one said, round bottom woks aren't available. The point was that flat bottomed woks are much more common, now and that flat bottomed ones are less easy top find.. For the reasons already given.

I notice that you searched for 'round-bottom woks'. That is likely to screw the results somewhat. Why not just search for 'woks' if you really want to know what is available? Anyway, some of the results clearly show flat-bottomed woks. Taobao's search engine is not very good, at all.

If you have a wok that is 12 or 14 inches in diameter balanced on a flat bottom of 6 inches, how stable would that configuration be?

Very. The weight of the wok (and its contents) keeps them stable. I don't know what kind of boisterous dining you go in for but, in any Chinese home I've ever been in, the hotpot is set safely in the centre of the table, and the guests tend not to go in for table top dancing, so there is no danger of anyone kicking it over.

The rate of evaporation in a wok will be such that you will have to prepare lots of stock in advance and be replenishing it frequently as it evaporates

Which is exactly what people do - both in restaurants and at home. Several of my friends have dedicated kettles for holding topping-up hotpot stock. Restaurants also frequently use kettles. Some places, including one I visit regularly, has dedicated hotpot stock topper-up girls who patrol the restaurant with their kettles.

Edited October 30, 2013 by liuzhou (log)

[dcarch]

The incredible geometry of a wok was "invented" by accident long time ago, I think.

If you take a sheet of steel and keep hammering it, you will end up with a wok. Not much skill is required. That's what I saw how woks were made in villages when I was in China long time ago. You can't make a skillet, or a frying pan with just a hammer.

Yes, you can do some of the things with a flat bottom wok, but there is no substitute for some of the functionality of a round bottom wok.

I fail to understand all the talk about how careful you need to be to protect the seasoned surface of a wok. I wash, scrub, burn, boil, steam ----- with my wok, the seasoning just keeps on building up better and better.

dcarch

[liuzhou]

I fail to understand all the talk about how careful you need to be to protect the seasoned surface of a wok. I wash, scrub, burn, boil, steam ----- with my wok, the seasoning just keeps on building up better and better.

Oh God! I agree with you for once! I'll never live it down!

[Ader1]

Have any of you practiced using a wok? I'm doing it with some un-cooked rice at the moment. Any advice?

[dcarch]

Have any of you practiced using a wok? I'm doing it with some un-cooked rice at the moment. Any advice?

Woking 9 to 5. :-) for me.

Why are you using a wok for uncooked rice? What are you making?

dcarch

[Ader1]

I'm using uncooked rice in order to practice the stir-frying movement of flipping the contents back. This guy in China told me to practice with some salt in the wok. Another with some sand. Are you a Chinese Chef dcarch?

[Hassouni]

I fail to understand all the talk about how careful you need to be to protect the seasoned surface of a wok. I wash, scrub, burn, boil, steam ----- with my wok, the seasoning just keeps on building up better and better.

Because I've found very high heat to evaporate the seasoning right off the wok - if not entirely, then partially. This is the same on my cast iron pan, and I went through the whole flaxseed oil 6-times-in-the-oven seasoning process with that.

[jsager01]

I'm using uncooked rice in order to practice the stir-frying movement of flipping the contents back.

this was what i was told when i wanted to develop my wok skills, a long time ago.,

Use uncooked rice, because it is cheap, and if you are worried about waste, you can buy broken rice, and then after your practice put it into a net to feed the birds, or cook it for your cat or dog if you have one.

with uncooked rice, you can if you want look at each of the grains and see how they have been cooked, are they burnt on one side and still raw on the other? then you still have a way to go.

with sand or salt, you have no way to tell how they have been cooked.

[dcarch]

I'm using uncooked rice in order to practice the stir-frying movement of flipping the contents back. This guy in China told me to practice with some salt in the wok. Another with some sand. Are you a Chinese Chef dcarch?

No I am not.

I use the wok for frying eggs for breakfast, make lunch and dinner, hence 9 to 5.

A chef would be 8 to 11 p.m. :-)

dcarch

[jsager01]

I fail to understand all the talk about how careful you need to be to protect the seasoned surface of a wok. I wash, scrub, burn, boil, steam ----- with my wok, the seasoning just keeps on building up better and better.

dcarch

as i mentioned in my earlier post on this thread to the OP, it depends on how you use or will use the wok. If you use the wok as in 'Woking 9 to 5. :-)' then probably you would have gone thru various cooking techniques on that one wok, including steaming, stir fry, shallow fry deep fry, braising,etc, just like in the olden days in China when the wok was the only or main cooking utensil.

Once you do stir fry, shallow fry, deep frying, you are re-seasoning the wok.

Try this experiment, use your wok to steam something 2 or 3 times, and then braise something acidic on it for 2 to 3 hours and see what you have as seasoning on your wok

I'm using uncooked rice in order to practice the stir-frying movement of flipping the contents back. This guy in China told me to practice with some salt in the wok. Another with some sand. Are you a Chinese Chef dcarch?

No I am not.

I use the wok for frying eggs for breakfast, make lunch and dinner, hence 9 to 5.

A chef would be 8 to 11 p.m. :-)

dcarch

[liuzhou]

just like in the olden days in China when the wok was the only or main cooking utensil.

It still is for most people.

[Ashen]

picked up a new carbon steel 14" wok at Tap Phong in Toronto on the weekend. 

 

 

after initial burn in and seasoning

 

[heidih]

Seerious Eats this week has a digital Wok issue. Touts Kennji' s new book...BUT the essays/profiles of Grace Young (noted cookbook author) and Tane Chan (owner of the famous Wok Shop in San Francisco) are worth a read

https://www.seriouseats.com/the-wok-digital-issue-5218092