Best neutral(ish) oil for high heat?

[paulraphael]

In the past I've used canola oil or grapeseed oil, but I just found some info online (no reliable source given) saying that refined safflower oil has a smoke point of 510 degrees F.

That's pretty impressive.

Is anyone familiar with this oil? Pros and cons? Other strong choices?

[Dave the Cook]

At IACP last April, canolainfo.org was passing out handy business-card-sized refrigerator magnets. One listed the composition of various dietary fats (picture here. Another listed the smoke points of the same oils. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be replicated on the site. Here's their list:

Sunflower, high-oleic: 478F/248C

Canola, high-oleic: 475F/246C

Peanut: 471F/244C

Canola: 468F/242C

Safflower, high-oleic: 468F/242C

Sunflower: 464F/240C

Corn: 453F/234C

Soybean: 453F/234C

Safflower: 446F/230C

Grapeseed: 435F/224C

Olive, processed: 428F/220C

Olive, extra virgin: 331F/166C

You'd think that this would be a cut-and-dried issue, but your citation, as well as (for example) this Wikipedia list, which draws on the CIA and Good Eats among other resources, indicates otherwise.

I use refined peanut oil most of the time, unless I find an exceptional price on grapeseed. Maybe it's all in my head, but grapeseed seems to brown better than pretty much anything else I've tried.

[Anna N]

I am curious to know why anyone needs an oil with a smoke point over 500F. I do a fair bit of deep frying but 375F seems to be about the highest I have ever needed. I totally realize that I want a good margin of safety before my oil starts to smoke but is there something out there that needs to be deep fried much higher than 375F?

[Chris Hennes]

I don't think we're talking about deep-frying here, not at these temps, you're right about that! But when searing off a steak, etc., it is easy to get up to those temps in a frying pan over high heat.

[Dave the Cook]

Oiling grill grates.

[paulraphael]

I don't think we're talking about deep-frying here, not at these temps, you're right about that! But when searing off a steak, etc., it is easy to get up to those temps in a frying pan over high heat.

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exactly. especially at the start. what I do now is preheat the bejeezus out of the pan, hold the protein in tongs or a spatula in one hand, the oil or clarified butter in the other, ad the fat, swirl it around, and then try to get the protein into the pan before everything goes up in smoke.

with a 500 degree smoke point, everything would be a lot more relaxed.

[slkinsey]

Most of the time, if you get the food into the pan with some alacrity, the oil will never reach the smoke point anyway. I've left a heavy copper pan on a full-blast stove for 10 minutes before pouring in a touch of grapeseed oil and either slapping in a steak or tossing in some vegetables for a super-fast saute. I've never had the oil break down on me from the 2-5 seconds it takes in between putting in the oil and putting in the food.

I agree with Dave about grapeseed. It's my go-to lipid for high heat cookery.

[paulraphael]

I agree with Dave about grapeseed.  It's my go-to lipid for high heat cookery.

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I like grapeseed a lot too, and when I used it, searing meat was a more leisurely process. But it's pretty expensive. I've gone to using inexpensive olive oil for all my stovetop use. It's not as robust.

I was thinking about trying canola oil again, but then safflower caught my eye with that high smoke point. I'm guessing it's cheaper than either olive or grapeseed oil. But I've never tried it.

Edited August 13, 2008 by paulraphael (log)

[Anna N]

Thank you for the explanation. I wrongly assumed you were all deep-frying!

[Dave the Cook]

Most of the time, if you get the food into the pan with some alacrity, the oil will never reach the smoke point anyway.  I've left a heavy copper pan on a full-blast stove for 10 minutes before pouring in a touch of grapeseed oil and either slapping in a steak or tossing in some vegetables for a super-fast saute.  I've never had the oil break down on me from the 2-5 seconds it takes in between putting in the oil and putting in the food.

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On the other hand, I once ignited extra-virgin olive oil using this same technique. Not recommended.

[gfron1]

I like pecan oil with its 475 smoke point.

[Fat Guy]

For a long time I was using grapeseed oil as my exclusive non-olive-oil cooking oil, because a really good chef recommended it. The cost of the oil wasn't an issue for me. If you're not deep frying, the amounts are so small the difference in cost over time is minimal. One day I needed some oil and, on account of the way the place I shop is organized, I would have had to do some backtracking to get the grapeseed oil so I got some corn oil because it was there. It cost almost nothing and it worked just as well as grapeseed. If anything, it's less "sticky" than grapeseed oil, which in my experience tends to film up a bit. And, while it may be my imagination, it seems to be the best oil I've used for popping popcorn both in terms of performance and flavor. So I've been using corn oil ever since. For deep frying too, on the one or two occasions a year that I deep fry something.

I actually favor the taste of peanut oil but so many people think they're allergic to it (as I understand it, even people with peanut allergies shouldn't have a reaction to commercially refined peanut oil) that I've followed the lead of many restaurants and eliminated it from my pantry altogether.

[maggiethecat]

It cost almost nothing and it worked just as well as grapeseed. If anything, it's less "sticky" than grapeseed oil, which in my experience tends to film up a bit. And, while it may be my imagination, it seems to be the best oil I've used for popping popcorn both in terms of performance and flavor. So I've been using corn oil ever since. For deep frying too, on the one or two occasions a year that I deep fry something.

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For my sins, I do a lot of deep frying so cost is an issue. I buy what's on sale -- and inexpensive corn or canola oil perform just fine, thanks. I've used grapeseed and peanut oils but the price to value ratio isn't there for me.

[Dave the Cook]

You don't sometimes get a fishy smell from canola? I do.

[maggiethecat]

You don't sometimes get a fishy smell from canola? I do.

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You must be a Supersmeller. No, I don't.

[chezcherie]

You don't sometimes get a fishy smell from canola? I do.

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i do, too. and i don't think i'm super smelly...

[Fat Guy]

I have in the past picked up that fishy smell from Canola, but not recently. I think it's something the Canola people have been working on. I think it has to do with alpha-linolenic acid content, glucosinolate, oxidative stability, sulfur content or something. I'm pretty sure it can be manipulated out of the equation. I should add, I've been paid money by the Canola Council to give a presentation at one of their past annual meetings, though the presentation wasn't about Canola oil as such.

[andiesenji]

If you have a middle eastern store in your area, check there for grapeseed oil. The prices are usually much less than in regular markets.

[Jason Campbell]

I find corn oil has too strong a flavour [although that wouldn't matter for popcorn of course]. Then again most UK books I've read state that corn oil has a strong flavour so it may just be auto-suggestion. Anyway, I've used it, and it works but I find the flavour a little heavy for me.

Saying that, I use sunflower oil for deep frying and that has a notable flavour that I feel isn't ideal, but it has an acceptable balance on price. I would prefer to use peanut [groundnut oil] if I didn't have to consider cost.

Like others here I like grape-seed oil as it's good for most things, I like it for salad dressings but it's fine for shallow frying too [never tried deep frying with it, again cost]. If I'm cooking a steak/chop I never add the oil to the pan, or oil the grill bars, I always oil the steak- I don't eat butter but you can do the same thing with melted butter. I just paint it on with a pastry brush. I've not experienced flare ups with this method, and over charcoal I think I would get more flare ups oiling the grill bars that the meat.

I've never used safflower oil or soya oil.

[Fat Guy]

Jason, I'm wondering if corn oil is different in the UK than it is in the US. There are, I know, two main variants of corn oil: unrefined and refined. Unrefined corn oil (which I only ever see in specialty stores) has a pronounced corn taste and a lower smoke point, but refined corn oil to me tastes relatively neutral. In the US, where corn is so plentiful, cheap, highly refined corn oil is the norm in supermarkets. I wonder what's on the shelves overseas.

[Jason Campbell]

I couldn't state for sure that they are the same, but the corn oil generally available is refined and is one of the cheapest available, the most popular brand is Mazola. You only find the cold pressed oils [except Olive oil] in speciality shops or the upper end supermarkets. In Walmart/Asda it's Mazola or their own brand. Based on shelf space the slightly more expensive sunflower oil is more popular.

The cheapest oil is just called 'vegetable oil' and is an unidentified blend of soya, safflower, rapeseed, cottonseed and maybe processed palm oil. I dislike the stuff as I feel it often gives a noticeable unpleasant flavour to, in particular, deep fried foods. I don't perceive the same market for Canola oil in the UK as America, the food press has been a bit snobby about rapeseed in general, associating it with questionable environmental and health issues. I think it doesn't help that rapeseed is used in 'vegetable oil' and so becomes guilty by association, although I have seen a high priced organic, cold pressed, rapeseed oil I've never used it, I think it's intended for salad dressings.

[weinoo]

I like to use peanut oil for most high heat sauteing or stir frying or popcorn.

But for when I want to sear a steak, I'll usually just get my cast-iron pan screaming hot and rub the steak with a little bit of oil or even rub down the pan with a bit of beef fat.

When I worked at Spartina, we used to do a 50-50 canola/olive oil mix...I guess to hold down the cost a bit.

[paulraphael]

I'm going to try some safflower oil, since no one seems to have much experience with it. Only issue is that the high smoke point comes from highly refined oil, and I'm not sure if that's indicated on the label. I'll let you know what I figure out.

[slkinsey]

I agree with Dave about grapeseed.  It's my go-to lipid for high heat cookery.

I like grapeseed a lot too, and when I used it, searing meat was a more leisurely process. But it's pretty expensive. I've gone to using inexpensive olive oil for all my stovetop use. It's not as robust.

I guess it depends on how much you use. It takes me more than a month to go through a liter of grapeseed oil.

Most of the time, if you get the food into the pan with some alacrity, the oil will never reach the smoke point anyway.  I've left a heavy copper pan on a full-blast stove for 10 minutes before pouring in a touch of grapeseed oil and either slapping in a steak or tossing in some vegetables for a super-fast saute.  I've never had the oil break down on me from the 2-5 seconds it takes in between putting in the oil and putting in the food.

On the other hand, I once ignited extra-virgin olive oil using this same technique. Not recommended.

I think it's possible to ignite just about any oil using this technique, if you're not careful.

You don't sometimes get a fishy smell from canola? I do.

I do. That's why I don't use it any more. This sensitivity may be at least partially genetically-mediated (like the ability to smell cyanide and "asparagus pee").

I have in the past picked up that fishy smell from Canola, but not recently. I think it's something the Canola people have been working on. I think it has to do with alpha-linolenic acid content, glucosinolate, oxidative stability, sulfur content or something. I'm pretty sure it can be manipulated out of the equation.

I don't know about that. I still get the fishy smell, which comes from linolenic acid. It's not clear to me that this can be "refined out" of canola oil (although it might potentially be bred out of the cultivar). Canola oil is 11 percent alpha-linolenic acid, the highest percentage for any cooking oil. The only familiar oil higher than that is flaxseed oil, which clocks in at 57%. I think we can all agree that we wouldn't want to cook with flaxseed oil. Next highest is soybean oil, at 8% alpha-linolenic acid. I've also found soybean oil a bit fishy from time to time. Everything else is less than 1%.

I should add, I've been paid money by the Canola Council to give a presentation at one of their past annual meetings, though the presentation wasn't about Canola oil as such.

Hmm. If we're fully disclosing, I should add that I have also been paid money by the Canola Council of Canada, to write lyrics for a song performed at the closing party of their convention.

Edited August 14, 2008 by slkinsey (log)

[Fat Guy]

I totally remember the Canola song!

I think I remember reading that they've bred it down to 7% but I don't know whether that seed is in widespread commercial use.