Dinner in Trotter's Kitchen

[awbrig]

"and both are less than excellent in their treatment of foodstuffs."

And why would you say this?

On another note...

Hey Cabrales, we are going to CTs next Sat for my B-Day and to celebrate my wife introduction to wine again after 9 months and I will be very interested in comparing notes as to our dinners... im thinking of bringing my 1996 Quintessa or 1996 Cinq Cepages and forking over the $50 corkage...

[cabrales]

forking over the $50 corkage...

awbrig -- Is the corkage $50 or $80? jordyn might be able to advise on this.

[awbrig]

its $50 and only if they dont have the bottle in inventory...

Ive been to Trotters probably 80+ times and have never brought in a bottle...but I just may this time...

[cabrales]

Ive been to Trotters probably 80+ times ....

awbrig -- No wonder you seem to have so much info about the place. Over what period have you been to Trotter's 80 times, and do you get bored with the cuisine sometimes?

[awbrig]

Bored, are you crazy?!? I never get bored of being treated like a king..its like a mini 3.5 hour vacation for me..and sometimes I just need to goto Trotters for rebalance in my life, if that make sense...Its a very Zen - like moment for me...

My first visit to Trotters was actually disappointing - although we have the menu framed and displyed in our home, among others...That first visit was about 8 years ago...We tend to go about 7 -8 times a year and also for special anniversary dinners...

Ive had the best meals of my life here altho Ive had about 3-4 disappointments - meaning not excellent. Funny thing is, the best experiences, ironically happen right after the relatively disappointing dinners...I would love to go there w you sometime along w Aurora and others and hopefully relive some of the best experiences ever in a restaurant...

[cabrales]

awbrig -- Isn't it wonderful to have found a restaurant that is an ideal subjective match for a diner's preferences? It's wonderful you have located that restaurant. At what approximate age did you determine that Trotter's was that restaurant for you?

I wonder if some diners attempt to locate such a restaurant, and never find it during their life.

[awbrig]

thats pretty funny...were you a philosophy major?

[cabrales]

thats pretty funny...were you a philosophy major?

awbrig -- The answer to your question is no, but I was serious. I wonder whether some members have searched for decades for something not yet secured.

[Jinmyo]

awbrig, 80+. That's an impressive statement. Trotter should hire you for adverts.

Have you ever had experience with Rob Feenie's Trotter knock-offs at Lumiere in Vancouver?

[awbrig]

I know what u mean Cabreles, and I was kidding...most people however don't put that much attention into cuisine like we all do though, y'know?

And Jin...Ct and I are good friends however CT doesnt need me to spread the word about his restaurant...everyone knows already...

However Ct has put me, my wife and my mother in a few episodes of his Kitchen Sessions television program

Who is Rob Feenie and what knock offs...Im interested in learning more...

[Aurora]

awbrig -- The answer to your question is no, but I was serious. I wonder whether some members have searched for decades for something not yet secured.  

I'm sure you are well aware of the profundity of your question.

Within the realm of food, there is simply not enough time to know about, let alone consume, all that there is out there to be enjoyed. I would like to think that is one of the reasons why we all take so much enjoyment in this site and devote ourselves to it so passionately (especially when our thoughts and observations sometimes clash). The idea that I could dine at Charlie Trotter's, Norman's, El Bulli, La Maison Troisgros, The French Laundry, etc.; and think that such an experience would be "it"--with no next, new experience yet to come--would be a sad thought, indeed. If that were true, the joy of experiencing food would be finite. It is purely infinite. I'm sure even Charlie Trotter (and Awbrig) would attest to that.

I certainly have my favorite places that I celebrate even when the experience has been lackluster, but it in no way weakens my devotion. It also doesn't prevent me from enjoying other places in the same way.

Without speaking for Awbrig, I would argue that his experiences at Trotter's are multi-faceted. The food obviously plays a large part in his enjoyment, but it is not the only part. His ability to celebrate CT's also doesn't obscure his ability to celebrate the work of other chefs, whether he says so openly or not.

For me, I guess my answer to your question is no, and I hope that will always be my answer. Such things are what I search for in the hope that I will never be able to find them--dining experiences or otherwise. It's that whole thing about the quest and the journey being more significant than the destination (blah, blah).

BTW - Awbrig, when are we going?

[MartyL]

The four members of our dining party who drank began with a bottle of Jacques Selosse Blanc de Blanc NV ($110), which . . .  I enjoyed

Glad to read you enjoyed the Selosse. As luck would have it, I recently discovered a source in Paris who can get me some Rose as well as his prestige bottling, the Cuvee Substance, at a reasonable price. The trick will be getting it over here, of course.

I had initially thought about ordering the 1992 Haut Brion Blanc for $300, but noticed Chassagne Montrachet, Ramonet, from 1981 and 1982 (in the $300-325 range for each bottle).  We spoke with the sommelier, and he appeared to strongly prefer the Ramonet. We therefore chose the Ramonet 1982 ($315), which was wonderful -- developed and probably the oldest Chassagne Montrachet I have had to date. Ramonet is one of my favorite producers, and I am not frequently disappointed when I choose a bottle from it.

I envy you this experience. As Martha Stewart would put it, old Ramonet is "a good thing."

In case you are interested, Chambers St. Wines downtown has some older Chassagne Montrachets from Bernard Morey in stock. Due to the graciousness of some friends, I have had the chance to taste a few of them. While the quality is not quite in the same league as Ramonet, the prices are much more reasonable, and I've enjoyed the two or three I've tried. Well worth it, IMHO.

[robert brown]

Cabrales, great report. Now that you have eaten at Trotter's, did you see any evidence of lack of formal training, of possessing monster technique that most great chefs have, or indications of short-cutting? Did you also get a notion of how he stacks up against chefs like Passard, Troisgros, Klein, Bras or Gagnaire?

[Jinmyo]

Who is Rob Feenie and what knock offs...Im interested in learning more...

There are several discussions in several threads. The longest is here: Lumiere Cookbook.

Both Fat Guy and cabrales, whose opinions I respect, like Lumiere.

I however find Feenie to be merely derivative of Trotter with no originality and generally squirelly. However I have not dined at Lumiere and base my revulsion on his appearances and his appearance on Food Network Canada. Charlie Brown with highlights, mousse, and a squeeze bottle. His current catch-phrase is "Good food rocks!"

Indeed.

[cabrales]

The idea that I could dine at Charlie Trotter's, Norman's, El Bulli, La Maison Troisgros, The French Laundry, etc.; and think that such an experience would be "it"--with no next, new experience yet to come--would be a sad thought, indeed.  If that were true, the joy of experiencing food would be finite.  It is purely infinite.  

Aurora -- There can be a restaurant that one knows is "it" after sampling its cuisine, even though one might still be looking forward to meals at other restaurants. That one finds one's subjectively preferred restaurant does not mean that thereafter the experiences with respect to cuisine become limited. It's a very special situation, and perhaps awbrig has it with Trotter's.

However Ct has put me, my wife and my mother in a few episodes of his Kitchen Sessions television program

awbrig -- When you have a chance, please describe the Kitchen Sessions in which you participated.

Cabrales, great report. Now that you have eaten at Trotter's, did you see any evidence of lack of formal training, of possessing monster technique that most great chefs have, or indications of short-cutting? Did you also get a notion of how he stacks up against chefs like Passard, Troisgros, Klein, Bras or Gagnaire?

robert -- For me, and based on limited data of course, Trotter's doesn't even stack up to the best chefs in the US, let alone certain chefs in France. However, it might be unfair to make that assessment after having only had one meal at Trotter's.

[Andy Lynes]

Trotter appeared for five minutes, but did not even bother to say hello.

That is just plain bloody rude. Or is he incredibly shy or something?

Great review Cabrales, very interesting.

[awbrig]

Cab, what did you take your pictures with? Digital cam or regular 35mm...also did you use a flash - probably not since you were in the kitchen...I have had difficulty w my camera in the restaurant since it is not too well lit and if I use my flash it flashes or whites out the picture...I have a Sony Digital Cybershot P-1 3.3 mega pixel camera...any suggestions...

[cabrales]

awbrig -- The non-digital Canon Elph 2 I had been using broke down, so I had to use disposable cameras. Some of them had flashes; others did not. I looking to buy a high resolution digital camera that is very small. How small is the Sony you have?

[awbrig]

pretty small

http://www.epinions.com/Sony_Cybershot_DSC...Camera_dscp1ik3

[awbrig]

when are u posting your pics from the dinner? I will take pics of my dinner on Saturday as well...

[Bux]

Charlie is self-educated.  He has no "formal training."  Has he learned and utilized techniques from other chefs and cuisine?  Of course, who hasn't...

I suspect you really mean that he has had no formal school education, but that he's been educated on the job. I see that as distinctly different from self educated. It's not uncommon for a chef to learn on the job, although probably getting less common both here and in France. The apprentice system in France may not be quite what it once was when a young man almost became an indentured servant as a start to his career. I believe Loiseau, in Saulieu, had no schooling and was not considered a promising talent when he staged at Troisgros. Daniel Boulud doesn't list any formal chooling on his CV.

[cabrales]

when are u posting your pics from the dinner?

awbrig -- It will take a while. I am going out of town this weekend (hopefully; Clio) and work is somewhat busy.

[Bux]

On the point of "parting gifts," it is not uncommon for guests to leave with boxes of beautifully tied mignardises, signed caps, shirts, cookbooks, menus, or the labels from the wine that they enjoyed.

Is there a distinction between "guest" and "diner?" I mean is everyone supposed to get some sort of party favor? Should I feel slighted that no one signed our caps? We did get a good corkscrew that I still frequently used and some groceries.

Actually a jar of the marinade came in very handy when we went on to visit family further south in Illinois and they set up the grill for dinner.

[awbrig]

Bux,

Charlie, himself, describes himself as 'self-educated' and uses the term of having "no formal training" so if you have a semantic question on that you might want to bring it up w Chef...

As I mentioned before, in a few posts, is that he has had no serious culinary training or degree and really no serious apprenticeships. He has created a speficially unique cuisine primarily based on his own research and personal experience with food from across the world. At times, he pays respect to specific chef styles or regional cuisine influences.

One thing is for certain: Chef Trotter's cuisine is highly original.

[awbrig]

As far as parting gifts: you never know when you are going to get them..and by guests/diners I think she meant the same thing...

Charlie also doesnt want to over do it with frequent guests/diners..he believes in the philosophy "less is more".

One time we received a huge bag filled w Kitchen Sessons Videos, 2 $50 hardcover Books, the whole line up of foodproducts...

And then the next 5 times we didnt receive anything, nor did we expect anything or feel that it was owed to us...

What Charlie does is extremely generous and there is no set rule in place for parting gifts...