Meringue Troubles....

[ambra]

Hi All, I am not new to this site, but I don't post often. I guess I am shy

I am hoping someone could help me perfect a recipe I found in a magazine that I am trying to make for my step-daughter's 18th birthday. The recipe calls for her favorite sweets- meringue, white chocolate and whipped cream.

It's for a White Chocolate Bavarian Cream Cake that I found in an old edition of La Cucina Italiana.

Here it is...

http://www.italiancookingandliving.com/rec...ate,pt=nc,.html

I have never made Meringue in my life...so I don't know if it's supposed to get hard or remain somewhat soft (sorry, I'm lame.)- I assumed soft because it's a cake and you have to cut through it, no? The recipe specifies Dry. Dry sounds to me like crunchy? Is that right? But after an hour in the oven (as specified) they didn't even turn 'beige' as the picture in the mag suggested.

Also. the recipe called for white chococate bavarian cream- which came out WAY TOO sweet. So I would like to reduce the sugar. Can anyone suggest how much? It called for 4 oz of white chocolate (the only one I have is Guitard, and it's pretty sweet already.) plus 1/2 cup of regular sugar.

Or should I reduce the amount of sugar in the meringue?? Or both?

Each component is too sweet in my opinion. However, I'm told Meringue is supposed to be sweet.

I am asking because the one I made now is inedible, and I don't feel like wasting another round (or two) of ingredients to figure this out.

Then, to top it all off, the gelatin didn't make the bavarian cream harden in any way! but I am guessing that is just because of my baking lameness. I used powdered gelatin called Tortagel (that's what they sell in my neck of the woods.) Next time, I'll try the sheets. (They cost double!)

Thank you for any help anyone can offer even if it's a better recipe containing some of those components!! LOL!

[gfron1]

I have never made Meringue in my life...so I don't know if it's supposed to get hard or remain somewhat soft (sorry, I'm lame.)- I assumed soft because it's a cake and you have to cut through it, no? The recipe specifies Dry. Dry sounds to me like crunchy? Is that right? But after an hour in the oven (as specified) they didn't even turn 'beige' as the picture in the mag suggested.

<SNIP>

Or should I reduce the amount of sugar in the meringue?? Or both?

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As I read the recipe it should be dry and firm. I always, always, always have to bake my meringues longer than recipes call for. Make sure your oven is calibrated, make sure you don't pipe too thick, and then just be patient. I find its hard to over bake meringue...but its certainly not a food that I've spent too much time with.

And as for reducing sugar - maybe in your cream, but not your meringue. Leave that recipe as it is.

[Tri2Cook]

I agree with Rob from looking at the recipe. A dry, crisp meringue is what I'd want for that. The meringue will soften a bit from the moisture in the bavarian. Meringue doesn't have to look browned to be done properly. In fact, it's usually considered more desirable to achieve dry, crispy meringues that don't color.

For the bavarian, I personally would cook the custard without the chocolate despite what the recipe says. Cook it until thickened and strain it over the chocolate to melt it. Mix in the bloomed gelatin. Cool then fold in the cream. If it's too sweet for you, reduce or remove the sugar (depending how sweet you want it) from the custard. You can always reserve a bit of the cream to sweeten, whip and add in if it turns out not sweet enough. If you're whipping 3 c. of cream, set aside ~1/2 c. Keep track of how much sugar you end up using (if any) for making it again in the future and you can eliminate that step.

[HQAntithesis]

Wow, that meringue really is very sweet, even as far as meringues go! I would have thought you could even halve the quantity of sugar (though then you may need to make a bit more of the batter to have enough for the cake). As gfron said, one hour may not be enough time in the oven to cook the meringue though, at that temperature, it should eventually start to colour. After baking, you can always just turn off the oven (leaving the meringue in there) and let the residual heat continue to dry out the meringue. Be warned though that if you do lower the sugar content of the meringue, that will further increase the baking time (additional water in the recipe).

For the bavarian cream, I recommend reducing the sugar content to one or two tablespoons. The gelatin content is correct, but the problem is that volume measurements of gelatin are quite unsafe: not enough and you have thick soup and too much and you have rubber. You also have to catch the custard/chocolate mixture at just the right temperatue when you add the cream: it should be just a little below body temperature though if your whipped cream is at fridge temperature you could probably get away with incorporating it at body temperature because there's so much of it.

With the gelatin powder, how much water did you bloom it in? For two teaspoons you'd need about 40ml. If too much extra is added, that will also make the bavarian runny.

[ambra]

With the gelatin powder, how much water did you bloom it in? For two teaspoons you'd need about 40ml. If too much extra is added, that will also make the bavarian runny.

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Yes, that is about how much water I used. But it wouldn't bloom. So I read the directions on the back which said I had to heat it over the stove to make it bloom so I did, and most stuck to the bottom of the pot, I got most of it out. But anyway, I think there wasn't enough at that point and that is why it didn't set. Or it was just the wrong product. I told you I was lame. Anyway, I will use the sheets next time to avoid that problem again. I just hope the sheets are the same as they are in the US. The powder sure isn't!

Also, thank you all (gfron1, Tri2cook, and HQAntithesis) for your advice. I feel better about re-trying the recipe again.

[gfron1]

I've never used the exact product you're talking about, but I would think that you should only boil your water and add it to the gelatin powder, not actually cook the powder on the stove. Saying that - I only use powder for marshmallows - I'm a sheet man!

[Tri2Cook]

I'm not familiar with Tortagel but if it's just powdered gelatin...

- bloom it in a small metal bowl or pan, swirl it over low heat for a few seconds until it starts to melt then take it off the heat and the residual heat will finish the job...

...or...

- bloom it in a glass bowl, pop it in the microwave for a few seconds just 'til it starts to melt and let the residual heat finish the job.

Unless there's something different about this particular product, you're not trying to cook it. You just want to melt it and you want to do that somewhat gently.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Tri2Cook (log)

[ambra]

I'm not familiar with Tortagel but if it's just powdered gelatin...

- bloom it in a small metal bowl or pan, swirl it over low heat for a few seconds until it starts to melt then take it off the heat and the residual heat will finish the job...

...or...

- bloom it in a glass bowl, pop it in the microwave for a few seconds just 'til it starts to melt and let the residual heat finish the job.

Unless there's something different about this particular product, you're not trying to cook it. You just want to melt it and you want to do that somewhat gently.

←

That’s what I thought too, but the directions read:

Put the contents of the packet into a pot with 3-4 spoons of sugar and gradually mix in 250 ml of water.

Bring it to a boil over a low flame for one minute- always mixing it.

Let it cool down for about 2 minutes stirring it every once in a while.

I only used the 2-3 spoons of water and I tried to let it bloom without heating it, but nothing happened.

I’d post a pic, but I don’t know how and anyway, it’s in Italian. (I live in Italy.) It’s a product by Paneangeli and it’s all I could find besides the sheets. I didn’t wanted to because the sheets were like 1.60 euros for one, and a box of Panangeli Tortagel is 1.29 euros for 2 packets!! Plus, I didn’t know if an “Italian” sheet would be the same size as an “American” sheet as I’ve found that none of the other packaging is the same. I’m guessing this is the wrong product. Period. What does this teach me? DON’T BE CHEAP!!

I had this same problem trying to make the no knead bread. The “instant” yeast they sell here, is nothing more than a bunch of weird chemical sounding names that I can’t even identify-but probably somewhere along the lines of baking powder. I tried it with fresh yeast, but I never did figure out the right amount. While edible, there is no oven spring.

Actually, now that I think of it, can anyone tell me the size of the sheets there? The ones here are 24 grams.

Oh well, thanks again.

[HQAntithesis]

24g?? Wow, that's a heavy sheet. The ones I've worked with were 2g. Are you sure you weren't looking at the weight of the packet containing multiple sheets? In either case, you'll be needing 5-6g of gelatin and so you can just weigh the sheets before putting them in water.

[gfron1]

HERE is the best explanation of gelatin - conversions from powder to sheet, and size differences, bloom, etc.

[ambra]

24g?? Wow, that's a heavy sheet. The ones I've worked with were 2g. Are you sure you weren't looking at the weight of the packet containing multiple sheets? In either case, you'll be needing 5-6g of gelatin and so you can just weigh the sheets before putting them in water.

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Just more proof that I am lame. lol. It turned out they were stuck together. (But really, really stuck!) Thank you for your help! I will use the 5-6 grams as you suggested.

And thank you for the link gfron1!!

[Chris Hennes]

My Italian is a little weak (OK, a lot weak) but it looks to me like Tortagel is not gelatin at all, but rather a clear starch medium designed to glaze things like fruit tortes. This would explain why it did not gel up properly. Of course, I could be reading the product page completely wrong!

[Kerry Beal]

My Italian is a little weak (OK, a lot weak) but it looks to me like Tortagel is not gelatin at all, but rather a clear starch medium designed to glaze things like fruit tortes. This would explain why it did not gel up properly. Of course, I could be reading the product page completely wrong!

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I looked it up too, and I agree that it is a glaze. Might be starch, might be pectin - but I don't think it's gelatin.

[ambra]

Yes, I guess that's it's main use. But it is called Gelatina which to me, meant Gelatin. -it says on the box, "gelatina (used for) torte." My Italian is fine, but not when it comes to things I don't use everyday!!! Anyway, the cream didn't set, so I won't be using it again.

Thankfully, they have the sheets here which should make it work...

Edited January 5, 2008 by ambra (log)

[alanamoana]

tortagel is definitely a glaze. i've seen similar products in germany.

never boil gelatin as it will denature it and it won't set up properly.

this recipe is sort of poorly written. it asks for 6 cups whipped cream. i assume that means 6 cups by volume of cream already whipped? and the cream is not sweetened, so that should adjust for the sweetness in the meringue and pastry cream.

i hope you succeed in your next try, but i'm always very skeptical of recipes i find on the internet. usually, i try to find three or four of the same type of recipe and compare the ingredients and instructions...then i mix and match based on my knowledge of technique. it usually helps because most recipes aren't that well written!

[borso]

Tortagel is made of tapioca starch, sugar, carrageenan (gelling agent), monopotassium sodic (acidifier), and potassium chloride (stabilizer). It's obviously not a gelatin!

However, does anyone know of a similar product sold in the USA? I've looked for 24 years, and end up buying this stuff in Italy and packing it into the suitcase.

Edited February 23, 2008 by borso (log)