Smoked Xmas Ham

[Prawncrackers]

Earlier in the week i was in a mild panic that i'd not bought enough meat to feed the 18 Chinese folk that i need to cook Xmas dinner for. I'd bought a 10lb three-bird roast weeks ago (goose, chicken & pheasant from the lovely people at Seldom Seen Farm) and at the same time ordered a 10lb smoked half ham on the bone from my local butcher. I picked up the ham today and it's massive! My fears have been allayed about the quantity but now i'm in a mild panic as to how to cook it. Here is a pic of the meat:

I've been avidly reading the tips provided in the earlier thread on Cooking Raw Ham however mine is a smoked ham on the bone not raw. I've cooked much smaller pieces of ham before where i've soaked overnight, boiled for an hour, glazed then roasted. Should i do the same for this ham... If so, what timings would you recommend for each stage?

[snowangel]

Since your ham is smoked, don't overcook it (last Easter, my sister cooked a smoked ham for 5 hours at 350 degrees, then cranked up the heat to 450 for 45 minutes, resulting in ham floss!).

I'd say 300 degrees for about 10 minutes per pound.

And, before I soaked or boiled it, I'd sample it to see just how salty it is.

Edited to add: I think the flavour of ham is best when it is warm, not piping hot.

[dougal]

As a British "smoked ham" (Birmingham UK), its very unlikely to have been hot smoked (ie cooked at all yet).

For judging the saltiness, I like Jane Grigson's tip -

When the water with the ham (only) in it comes up to temperature, taste it.

If the water is "too salty" then change it, putting the ham in fresh water and bringing the water back up to heat before tasting again, and if required repeating the exercise. Add any aromatics once you commit to continue.

As regards the "boiling", I'd suggest applying sous-vide-type thinking to avoid overcooking the outside.

While I don't have a pot big enough to take your lump, I've had excellent results with poaching in water at about 75C and turning off the heat when the meat's internal temperature is in the low 60'sC. The internal temperature continues to rise for a while as the heat continues to spread through the meat.

I've used a jam thermometer arrangement (clipped to the pan side) to measure the temperature of the broth. And stirred it frequently to keep it a fairly even temperature.

At the risk of extending the cooking time, for a bigger lump, I'd actually go slightly cooler with the water (low 70'sC?) to minimise the overcooking of the outside, since you'll be cooking longer...

If you are glazing and roasting with the meat hot from the poaching, you might even think of stopping poaching a few degrees lower...

As to timing, Jane Grigson's rules of thumb in her "Charcuterie" (some drawn from MAFF sources) suggest a cooking time around 3 1/3 hours for a 10lb ham... but using a meat thermometer shows you what's happening!

Classically for hygiene purposes Pork should be cooked to about 70C internally. Julia Childs and many others believe its at its best rather lower than that...

As a technique point, it'll help the thing to cook evenly if its not sitting directly on the bottom of the pan. A not very heat-conductive item (like a plate) helps ensure the meat is cooked by the water, not the pan! (I'd expect the cured meat to sink, rather than float... )

Keep the poaching broth (and the skin) as they are the basis of other nice things, like a lentil soup...

[Prawncrackers]

Thanks Dougal, as you say it is a cold smoked ham and is therefore raw. So all your info is relevant.

I've had to take a couple of chunks off the sides of the ham for it to fit into my stockpot! Conveniently i boiled and roasted the chunks and they are a little salty, not overly but enough to warrant an overnight soak. It's tight fit in the pot so your tip about using a plate to prop it up is very useful. But should i really poach it for three hours? It seems a little long.

Plus i don't have a meat thermometer so i'm assuming 70-75C would be barely below a simmer, does that sound right to you?

[dougal]

... I've had to take a couple of chunks off the sides of the ham for it to fit into my stockpot! Conveniently i boiled and roasted the chunks and they are a little salty, not overly but enough to warrant an overnight soak.  It's tight fit in the pot ...

Tight is not good.

You don't want it leaning on the sides...

I make small hams (~ 1kg), and I poach them in a pot with about 7 litres of liquid.

The more liquid, the steadier you can hope to keep the temperature.

I can't say just how small you could go -- I just don't know. But I can see that the tighter the pan, the more difficult things might get...

But should i really poach it for three hours?  It seems a little long.

3 hours 20 for 10lb is about the standard recommendation for a standard (food safety) cooking, 71C internal.

I'm suggesting a slightly cooler poaching liquor (so slower) but shooting for a lower core temperature (so quicker). 3 hours-ish of *gentle* simmering is about right.

A year and a half ago, I had an online discussion that is pretty authoritative as to what the "standard" recommendations actually mean.

http://www.thesausagesource.com/forum/view...php?f=16&p=1438

Apart from a conversion into actual temperatures, the UK Government advice (which has stood since 1949) is discussed in (excruciating ) detail.

Plus i don't have a meat thermometer so i'm assuming 70-75C would be barely below a simmer, does that sound right to you?

←

Treat yourself to a thermometer - of some sort!

60C is too hot to touch. Beyond that, its hard to judge until you get close towards 100C. You certainly don't want any bubbling - which would indicate that the pan base was rather close to 100C. You want it even throughout, steady, and as precise as possible.

Simple analogue probe thermometers can be *very* cheap. I think I saw some still in Aldi from a couple of weeks back - worth a check, perhaps. My Lidl one cost me £1.99 - its not high accuracy, but it convinced me that a thermometer is a whole lot better than guessing.

However, I upgraded to a digital probe (from Lakeland £12.99) which has seen various uses - including ham internal measurement during poaching. (I've learned to take the battery out when its not being used; but its a rare Lakeland bargain.) Lakeland thermometers

I'd like a Thermapen FR. Maybe next Christmas...

Edited December 21, 2007 by dougal (log)

[jackal10]

Soak for 24 hours changing the water.

a) Cook, either boil just under a simmer as above or bake, covered in huff pastry or foil at 350F for 25mins/lb

Actually you want to get the centre to about 140F/60C for at least an hour and longer to let the collagen dissolve, so alternatively put it in a low (160F) oven for 8 hours or so,

Having cooked it then strip the skin but not the fat.

You can then treat it in various ways. If eating cold you might want to cover it in mustard and breadcrumbs, Hot, its traditional to score the fat into diamonds, rub with sugar or honey or marmalade, sud with cloves and glaze in a ho oven for half an hour, basting with apple or orange juice

[dougal]

Soak for 24 hours changing the water.

a) Cook, either boil just under a simmer as above or bake, covered in huff pastry or foil at 350F for 25mins/lb

Actually you want to get the centre to about 140F/60C for at least an hour and longer to let the collagen dissolve, so alternatively put it in a low (160F) oven for 8 hours or so,

...

←

If you really are lacking a suitable pan, I think the oven makes more sense.

Can you set your oven so that it gives you a true 70C? (or 72C or whatever you want to go with)

If it'll do that, my suggestion is to

- soak the thing to lose some salt

- put it on a rack in the oven, just above a roasting tin of hot water. Cover the whole lot with a "tent" of aluminium foil. This arrangement should allow it to cook long and slow without drying out excessively. Though a disposable pastry coat could indeed be an alternative.

- cook it until your new meat thermometer tells you the inside has got hot enough!

Unless you have the temperature of the oven pretty tightly controlled, I think that ultra-long, ultra-slow is a counsel of perfection, rather than an essential...

BTW 10lb at 25 minutes per pound would be over 4 hours in a 350F/175C oven...

After you remove the skin - I must stress, don't dump it! It may not quite be Fergus Henderson's "Trotter Gear", but its on the way...

Jackal10 - how did your sous-vide ham turn out? And what treatment did it eventually get?

[jackal10]

What you describe is pretty well exactly what I did, except instead of plain water I used apple juice with cloves and bay.

18 hours at about 75C - bottom oven of a four oven aga.

Its resting in the fridge now, for Christmas Eve when I will strip the skin and glaze it with local honey and cloves, then half an hour in a hot oven.

The bit I sampled was excellent, but I think I will need to discard the outside slice since the surface has dried. Maybe next time I will do it in a large bag in a water bath.

[dougal]

Thanks for that.

As previously indicated, while I'm happy with my technique for little bits, I've not personally, yet, had occasion to have to dare to play with seriously large bits, and am keen to pick up on real experiences.

Hope you enjoy the eating of it!

[Prawncrackers]

Thanks guys, the ham turned out perfectly. I did buy a thermometer in the end on xmas eve. Lakeland had sold out but i managed to get a cheapo one from Aldi (you are a genius Dougal). I brought the ham up to about 75-80C in a fresh change of water with a studded onion and bay, i dunked an oven thermometer into the pot to gauge the temp of the liquid! Poached it until the meat thermometer reached 60C which took nearly 4 hrs. Took it off the heat and drained the liquid. Took the whole thing to my aunts where it had been stood for about an hour and a half covered before i stripped the skin off and scored the fat. I studded it with cloves and gave it a honey, maple syrup, mustard and peppercorn glaze before putting into the oven whilst the bird was resting for half an hour, reapplying the glaze a couple of times. The result was stunning, everyone adored the sweet, salty, succulent, smokey ham along with the goose. I think the usual turkey has finally had its day in our family!!

Thanks again for the great advice, here are some pics: