PUB FOOD

[Wilfrid]

You know what puzzles me? Two things. First, although I am somewhat out of touch with the generality of British pubs, I recall typical pub food being along the lines of bangers and mash, steak pie with chips and peans, shepherd's pie, spag bol, and the like. And while that kind of repertoire is limited, many pubs seemed to execute it competently. Plain home cooking, really.

What I infer both from Simon's post and my own occasional observations is that pubs today attempt to put a gastronomic flourish on the menus. Thai fishcakes, indeed. Let alone Thai schnitzel (what's the equivalent, Viennese pad thai?). Not to mention, I suspect, all manner of burritos, kebabs, shrimps a la provencale, Peruvian chicken, and of course "curry". What a bunch of nonsense. And indeed there may be a connection there between a half-hearted, TV-based education in "gourmet" food and the expectations of the customers when eating out. Ten years ago, pork sausages would have comfortably outsold Thai red curry on any pub menu, but I wonder if that is any longer true.

The second thing that puzzles me is that it's surely as easy to prepare simple food well as badly. It's not like it's a big money-saver to screw it up. I mean, a decent fishcake is not an impossibly complex dish to prepare. Is it that the pubs can't be bothered to employ people with competence in catering, or is that competence now extremely rare?

Personally, I like to see a home-made Scotch egg, a pork pie of a good brand, and a jar of pickled eggs. Then I'm happy.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I mean, a decent fishcake is not an impossibly complex dish to prepare.

It is for someone on the minimum wage.

[Wilfrid]

Fair enough. I assumed that the Wetherspoons of this world would require some sort of basic catering qualification from their cooks, but perhaps I am a hopelessly starry-eyed naif.

[Lord Michael Lewis]

I assumed that the Wetherspoons of this world would require some sort of basic catering qualification from their cooks, but perhaps I am a hopelessly starry-eyed naif.

A basic catering qualification is sufficient to land you 15,000 GBP a year, about 5,000 GBP more than Wetherspoons pay.

[g.johnson]

steak pie with chips and peans

I think it’s the air of ambiguity that makes Wilfrid so dreamy.

[Wilfrid]

Oh, it's a well known side dish. Canned peas mixed with Heinz baked beans. Surely you were raised on it?

[Tonyfinch]

So take a GOOD LOOK at my face

You'll see my SMILE looks out of place

If you look closer it's easy to trace

The crux of my post

Baby....Baby baby baby

OOps sorry pissed again

[Simon Majumdar]

So take a GOOD LOOK at my face

      You'll see my SMILE looks out of place

      If you look closer it's easy to trace

      The crux of my post 

      Baby....Baby  baby  baby

OOps sorry  pissed again

Are we talking a pissed smokey or a pissed Bryan Ferry

Both did exemplary versions

S

[Tonyfinch]

Excuse me. What sort of question is that? Who the hell is Bryan Ferry?

[StephenT]

You know what puzzles me?  Two things.  First, although I am somewhat out of touch with the generality of British pubs, I recall typical pub food being along the lines of bangers and mash, steak pie with chips and peans, shepherd's pie, spag bol, and the like.  And while that kind of repertoire is limited, many pubs seemed to execute it competently.  Plain home cooking, really.

There is definitely a whole new distinct genre of "modern pub food" emerging which attempts a fusion of modern European and Thai food presented in easy-to-prepare packages. Take a look at the menu next time you walk past a Slug & Lettuce, it's fairly typical. While some places might pull it off with some degree of competence, the general trend is for it to be badly (or at least sloppily) done.

Of course, traditional pub food can be really bad too. Especially in the dire West End pubs in which I usually seem to find myself for lunch because work-mates want to go there due to it serving moderately acceptable beer. Steak pie with dried-out "steak" and soggy crust, or bangers with really nasty mash. And it always arrives slowly and haphazardly too - we usually joke about us having overloaded their only microwave but it's probably true.

[Tonyfinch]

Of course, traditional pub food can be really bad too.  Especially in the dire West End pubs in which I usually seem to find myself for lunch because work-mates want to go there due to it serving moderately acceptable beer.

I think this sums up much of the why British food is crap argument so beloved by Plotnicki et al.

British social life developed round the pub. And pubs are for drinking beer in, not eating in. Salty snacks are pushed to increase thirst. Soft drinks are extortionately priced. Wine is crap. Food,if it is provided at all,has to be of a standard that can be prepared and served by people on paltry wages and requires no skill that would involve the breweries in hiring more expensive labour or installing expensive equipment.

The power of the breweries,coupled with the fact that we are not a wine producing country meant that we never developed a cafe/restaurant culture like France,Italy Spain etc. where alcohol consumption is much more related to food.

Also,our concentrated urbanization means that there are far less people involved in actually producing food so we have no equivalent of the French concept of "terroir"-local people producing local food for local outlets.

This has all led to a cultural mindset whereby Stephen's workmates prefer to go the pub to drink beer at lunchtime and eat some slop to soak it up rather than choosing a nice little local restaurant.

Over the last 20 years things have changed much for the better but in many parts of the country it's still the way it is.

So there.

[peterpumkino]

When I first returned from Florida my friends took me to 'Yates Wine Lodge' and I was really impressed expecting the best Bordeaux's etc. Boy, was I wrong! It was absolutely dreadful.

Now, re Witherspoon's, I agree entirely that this place serves cardboard, tasteless food BUT my fiances parents rave about it (and they used to go to The Ivy in the '40's!) so it goes to show that someone likes these places however that's theiropinion and they are entitled to it (however Tony would disagree as his 'opinion' is always fact!).

Thai Vegetarian Schnitzel - wow!

[Simon Majumdar]

just a question Peter

in the piccie of you in your avatar, is someone goosing you or is that your natural smiling face?

[Tonyfinch]

Peter, why do you keep on tediously repeating the self evident truth that people are entitled to their opinion on something?

It reminds me of playground arguments I had when I was twelve :"Well that's just your opinion, nah"

It's really boring to be expected to write "in my opinion" every time you want to make a point.

And besides. My opinions are right and yours are wrong.

[Charlene Leonard]

practically everything we all write on here is opinion, in fact, most of life in general is subjective so we don't need to write IMHO everytime we say somthing, of course people are entitled to their opinion... Saying that my husband knows that I am right on everything and everything he says is just his lowly opinion

peace man.

[Tonyfinch]

That's just your opinion.

[peterpumkino]

Well Tony, it was you who said that AA Gill is a 'putz' and when I replied that that was your opinion your EXACT words were 'No it's not my opinion, it's a fact'.

Get out of that one.

Very funny Simon, did you read my comments about AA Gill?

[peterpumkino]

Sorry Simon it's on the a hard couple of days in the smoke thread (IMHO - or is that a fact?).

[Tonyfinch]

Actually Peter, I was citing the immortal Alex Portnoy in Portnoy's Complaint who,exasperated by his girlfriend's retort of "That's just your opinion" everytime he says anything, finally turns round and says: "It isn't my opinion, girly. It's the truth!"

In other words, it was a J--o--k---e. You know jokes?

Phew!

[StephenT]

Beware, I'm about to post an almost on-topic posting on this thread...

At lunch today I said I didn't want crap pub slop. So in search of cheap and fairly quick lunch we went into a small restaurant on Garrick Street. We had their lunch special of baguette with steak, grilled chicken, brie or BLT accompanied by fries, salad (aka garnish) and a beer or glass of wine... all for £6.95. Much better than reheated pub "food" and cheaper too, or at worst the same price.

Hopefully it started a trend of going to more interesting places. Of course, the Real Ale Police weren't with us this time and I don't know what they'd have said about having to drink Kronenbourg or wine on a Friday lunch time.

[peterpumkino]

Alex who? And Portnoy's what?

[stellabella]

Why can't pubs stick with nuts and of course Pork Scratchings?  Am I missing something, surely there must be ordinary pubs that can do decent food rather than ripping people off with this crap.

i loved the pickeld eggs at the wenlock. and as long as i can buy crisps, i'm fine. god, i love those mccoy's crisps. to me, THAT'S pub food.

[bourdain]

Simon: Your rant anticipates an imminent Esquire column. Just so you know.

See you at the Connaught launch?

[stefanyb]

steak pie with chips and peans

I think it’s the air of ambiguity that makes Wilfrid so dreamy.

Wilfrid probably meant chips and (Euro)peans, those Continental types with new currency.

[John Whiting]

Does anyone remember the Admiral Codrington near So Kensington tube, which habitues referred to as the Odd Cod? An old Victorian pub with a cold case full of deli-type goodies which could be assembled into a plate of excellent salad, cheese, cold meats and condiments. Well chosen, well displayed, well kept, reasonably priced. Compared with the "normal" food in English pubs thirty-odd years ago, it was so spectacular that people came for miles to experience it.

A few months ago I saw a TV documentary about it's being turned into a pub "restaurant" of the modern anonymous sort. Sigh.