Vacuum Sealing Chocolates

[sote23]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone out there has experience in vacuum sealing their chocolates before they are frozen, as mentioned in the Peter Greweling book. Any info, would be greatly appreciated.

Luis

[etalanian]

When I had my bakery we dipped many items in callebaut, and we didn't vacuum seal, but rather heat-sealed in high barrier bags that kept out the moisture. It worked like a charm.

Eileen

[sote23]

When I had my bakery we dipped many items in callebaut, and we didn't vacuum seal, but rather heat-sealed in high barrier bags that kept out the moisture. It worked like a charm.

Eileen

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HI Eileen,

Is heat-seal anything like they use for shrink wrapping?

Luis

[ejw50]

I have a foodsaver vacuum sealer and I use that. I buy the bags off of ebay because they are cheaper.

I find it most useful for keeping condensation off when I defrost. When there is air in the bag, I get some condensation and sugar bloom. With the bag, all the condensation is on the bag. After a few months, there is some degradation in flavor, but it is better than when I didn't vacuum seal. I am not professional so that is good enough for me.

Maybe it would be better if I double sealed; never got around to trying that.

I have also taken chocolates on the plane in vacuum sealed bags; no problems there.

Edited September 19, 2007 by ejw50 (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I wonder if there would be any advantage to using one of the firm foodsaver containers, such as the rectangular ones or the marinator. Of course it would take more space in the freezer.

[sote23]

I have a foodsaver vacuum sealer and I use that.  I buy the bags off of ebay because they are cheaper.

I find it most useful for keeping condensation off when I defrost.  When there is air in the bag, I get some condensation and sugar bloom.  With the bag, all the condensation is on the bag. After a few months, there is some degradation in flavor, but it is better than when I didn't vacuum seal.  I am not professional so that is good enough for me. 

Maybe it would be better if I double sealed; never got around to trying that.

I have also taken chocolates on the plane in vacuum sealed bags; no problems there.

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I wonder as well if double sealing would help.

there must be a professional type model out there. I'll see if I can do some more research and let everyone know.

Luis

[sote23]

I wonder if there would be any advantage to using one of the firm foodsaver containers, such as the rectangular ones or the marinator.  Of course it would take more space in the freezer.

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If I'm not mistaken, I don't think you can freeze the containers.

Luis

[Kerry Beal]

I wonder if there would be any advantage to using one of the firm foodsaver containers, such as the rectangular ones or the marinator.  Of course it would take more space in the freezer.

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If I'm not mistaken, I don't think you can freeze the containers.

Luis

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I did not know that. Perhaps the cold air makes the seal fail?

[John DePaula]

I wonder if there would be any advantage to using one of the firm foodsaver containers, such as the rectangular ones or the marinator.  Of course it would take more space in the freezer.

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If I'm not mistaken, I don't think you can freeze the containers.

Luis

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I did not know that. Perhaps the cold air makes the seal fail?

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That makes sense. I suppose it's possible that this type of plastic will crack at low temperatures...

[ejw50]

Didn't somebody here go to Andrew Shotts's course? I thought he talked about freezing there.

[sote23]

I wonder if there would be any advantage to using one of the firm foodsaver containers, such as the rectangular ones or the marinator.  Of course it would take more space in the freezer.

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If I'm not mistaken, I don't think you can freeze the containers.

Luis

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I did not know that. Perhaps the cold air makes the seal fail?

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I looked into it in the past and they don't recommend it. I don't think it's designed to be frozen.

Luis

[sote23]

Didn't somebody here go to Andrew Shotts's course?  I thought he talked about freezing there.

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I was in his class in January. He did mention it, but I didn't get a detailed answer on the process. Just bits and pieces. If I recall correctly, he heat shrinks them.

Luis

Edited September 22, 2007 by sote23 (log)

[bonbonman]

luis, luis, luis, you must have been napping when i was talking about this....jk..i do not think anyone "vacuum" seals chocolates...i have tried with several machines that vacuum seal and have ended up with a bag of sludge...using a heat sealer that tightly wraps the outer box is what you need to do..it is basically a barrier for the condensation for when you remove them from the freezer/refrigerator...hope this helps...oh yea, i will be at notter again in two weeks...drew

[mrose]

I have used airtight containers that do not have much extra headspace (about 1.5" high) for truffles with very good success. If I do not have enough to fill container I use wadded parchment to take up space & a sheet on top.

[sote23]

luis, luis, luis, you must have been napping when i was talking about this....jk..i do not think anyone "vacuum" seals chocolates...i have tried with several machines that vacuum seal and have ended up with a bag of sludge...using a heat sealer that tightly wraps the outer box is what you need to do..it is basically a barrier for the condensation for when you remove them from the freezer/refrigerator...hope this helps...oh yea, i will be at notter again in two weeks...drew

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Hi Andrew,

I must have been napping, I did have jet lag after all. lol The reason I brought it up is Peter Greweling mentions vacuum sealing chocolates in his book and he says the vacuum should be gentle one so as not to damage the chocolates.

So is the heat sealer, just a standard one, they use to shrink wrap items?

Luis

[Mary F]

I use my foodsaver on sturdy boxes. There is a timing that you must get down or end up with a crushed box and chocolates. I would think sealing the chocolates themselves without a box would be very hard, they are too delicate. After trying several methods of freezing, this is what worked best for me. I would also worry about the firm foodsaver containers having a smell that would affect the truffles.

[sote23]

I use my foodsaver on sturdy boxes.  There is a timing that you must get down or end up with a crushed box and chocolates.  I would think sealing the chocolates themselves without a box would be very hard, they are too delicate.  After trying several methods of freezing, this is what worked best for me.  I would also worry about the firm foodsaver containers having a smell that would affect the truffles.

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Hi Mary,

so it is possible if you use a box. what type of box are you using?

Luis

[John DePaula]

I know that in France, vacuum sealing chocolates is not uncommon. As Mary has said, you need to use a rigid box to hold the chocolates and you need to stop the vacuum BEFORE it crushes the chocolates ........ obviously.

But in France they're using these blast chiller units that drop the temp rapidly to, I don't know, around -44C.

Using standard US chillers, your mileage may vary.

Mary, could you comment on how the freezing affects your chocolates? e.g. shelf-life (how long can they stay frozen), once you thaw, how is the taste & texture. I assume you've had good success?

TIA

[alanamoana]

and remember in class with jp-wybauw, he mentioned that he always keeps chocolates in the freezer at home to have when guests come around. just remember it is sort of a long defrost cycle:

in the fridge for one day then out at room temp for one day before unwrapping and eating.

it seems to be common practice as someone i know who worked at the notter school for the past year talks about it as well.

with some of the higher end commercial vacuum sealers, you can program how strong of a vacuum you want...so you can control the pressure.

with the 'food saver' brand of vacuum sealers, can you control (stop) the vacuum while it is working or does it have to go through a complete cycle?

[John DePaula]

and remember in class with jp-wybauw, he mentioned that he always keeps chocolates in the freezer at home to have when guests come around.  just remember it is sort of a long defrost cycle:

in the fridge for one day then out at room temp for one day before unwrapping and eating.

it seems to be common practice as someone i know who worked at the notter school for the past year talks about it as well.

with some of the higher end commercial vacuum sealers, you can program how strong of a vacuum you want...so you can control the pressure.

with the 'food saver' brand of vacuum sealers, can you control (stop) the vacuum while it is working or does it have to go through a complete cycle?

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Yes you can, Alana. On my version, the Pro III model, you just hit the Manual Seal button and it stops vacuuming and seals immediately.

When I first started making chocolates, I played around with freezing them in tupperware, observing the proper defrosting techniques. I found that even without a vacuum, they froze well with no cosmetic damage at all. I did, however, detect a very slight textural change but still perfectly fine for home use.

[bonbonman]

if you are making more money than you can count then i suggest you run right out and buy a vacuum sealer.....otherwise get a good airtight container and a used heat sealer to close up your chocolates before you freeze them...i have had great success with my products doing it ths way...i have had some of the world's best chefs not be able to tell if the product was frozen or not....as for the blast freezer, spend your money on somthing else..sorry to be so frank...but it makes no sense to subject a piece of chocolate to that harsh a temperature....for what? to be able to say "i have a blast freezer"...a blast freezer is good if you need 500 cakes made in a day and you have 100 ring molds.....do you have any idea how much product you have to sell to pay for a blast freezer?..i look at it that way...where does it make sense to spend my money?....you can have all of the coolest gadgets and gizmos with the latest technological advances from france and spain but, if you can not make a good product that appeals to YOUR customer base then you have nada...zilcho...ok i will shut up now.....

[John DePaula]

if you are making more money than you can count then i suggest you run right out and buy a vacuum sealer.....otherwise get a good airtight container and a used heat sealer to close up your chocolates before you freeze them...i have had great success with my products doing it ths way...i have had some of the world's best chefs not be able to tell if the product was frozen or not....as  for the blast freezer, spend your money on somthing else..sorry to be so frank...but it makes no sense to subject a piece of chocolate to that harsh a temperature....for what? to be able to say "i have a blast freezer"...a blast freezer is good if you need 500 cakes made in a day and you have 100 ring molds.....do you have any idea how much product you have to sell to pay for a blast freezer?..i look at it that way...where does it make sense to spend my money?....you can have all of the coolest gadgets and gizmos with the latest technological advances from france and spain but, if you can not make a good product that appeals to YOUR customer base then you have nada...zilcho...ok i will shut up now.....

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Well, I certainly wasn't recommending that everyone run out and buy a blast chiller. I'd love to have one, though not for the reasons (both real and "attitudinal") you suggest. A blast chiller is useful to the pastry chef because the temperature is lowered so very quickly that ice crystal formation is minimized thus keeping texture intact. So when you say that you're subjecting a piece of chocolate to "that harsh a temperature," in actuality you're being more gentle.

I don't freeze my chocolates but I'm happy to know that it's possible without loss of quality. During crunch times during the holiday season, it could surely help out.

Edited September 24, 2007 by John DePaula (log)

[Beanie]

URL[

luis, luis, luis, you must have been napping when i was talking about this....jk..i do not think anyone "vacuum" seals chocolates...i have tried with several machines that vacuum seal and have ended up with a bag of sludge...using a heat sealer that tightly wraps the outer box is what you need to do..it is basically a barrier for the condensation for when you remove them from the freezer/refrigerator...hope this helps...oh yea, i will be at notter again in two weeks...drew

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Hi Andrew,

I must have been napping, I did have jet lag after all. lol The reason I brought it up is Peter Greweling mentions vacuum sealing chocolates in his book and he says the vacuum should be gentle one so as not to damage the chocolates.

So is the heat sealer, just a standard one, they use to shrink wrap items?

Luis

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Luis,

I'm not Andrew and I know nothing about chocolates (except that I like eating them), but I have used shrink wrap film as well as heat seal bags and sealers, and they are not the same. A heat seal unit does not shrink plastic film. It bonds the edges of a heat seal bag but doesn't shrink the plastic around the item being packaged.Here is an example of a heat seal unit. It gets plugged into an electric outlet, which heats up a strip of teflon along the edge. Then its gets clamped onto the end of a polypropylene bag and the heat bonds the bag together. How heat sealing works.

Shrink film comes in different size rolls or bags and different gauges. A heat sealer can be used to seal the edges of a bag, but then a heat gun (or hair dryer) is needed to shrink the film around the item being packaged. I've seen wrapped chocolates in gift baskets that are shrink wrapped, but you wouldn't want to use a heat gun directly on anything that would melt.

Hope this helps.

[Kerry Beal]

Andrew,

From your explaination I'm not quite sure I have a clear picture of how you are sealing your product. First are we just storing ganache or are we storing finished chocolates?

As I think I understand you are placing your ganache (or finished chocolates) in an airtight container - (does it matter how full the container is?) - then placing that in some shrinkwrap and heat sealing it somehow without melting the chocolate - then placing that in the freezer.

What sort of airtight containers do you use? What sort of heat sealing materials? What do you use to accomplish the seal?

[sote23]

URL[

luis, luis, luis, you must have been napping when i was talking about this....jk..i do not think anyone "vacuum" seals chocolates...i have tried with several machines that vacuum seal and have ended up with a bag of sludge...using a heat sealer that tightly wraps the outer box is what you need to do..it is basically a barrier for the condensation for when you remove them from the freezer/refrigerator...hope this helps...oh yea, i will be at notter again in two weeks...drew

←

Hi Andrew,

I must have been napping, I did have jet lag after all. lol The reason I brought it up is Peter Greweling mentions vacuum sealing chocolates in his book and he says the vacuum should be gentle one so as not to damage the chocolates.

So is the heat sealer, just a standard one, they use to shrink wrap items?

Luis

←

Luis,

I'm not Andrew and I know nothing about chocolates (except that I like eating them), but I have used shrink wrap film as well as heat seal bags and sealers, and they are not the same. A heat seal unit does not shrink plastic film. It bonds the edges of a heat seal bag but doesn't shrink the plastic around the item being packaged.Here is an example of a heat seal unit. It gets plugged into an electric outlet, which heats up a strip of teflon along the edge. Then its gets clamped onto the end of a polypropylene bag and the heat bonds the bag together. How heat sealing works.

Shrink film comes in different size rolls or bags and different gauges. A heat sealer can be used to seal the edges of a bag, but then a heat gun (or hair dryer) is needed to shrink the film around the item being packaged. I've seen wrapped chocolates in gift baskets that are shrink wrapped, but you wouldn't want to use a heat gun directly on anything that would melt.

Hope this helps.

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Yes, that does help. I guess I was thiking of the heat shrinking, which is not the one I want.

Luis