Premium & Superpremium Vodka: The Topic

slkinsey · November 7, 2003

Grappa and Marc are distilled from the "must" left over from the winemaking process. This consists lategely of grape skins, stems and the like.

Fundamentally, one can make vodka out of just about anything so long as it is refined to the point where it loses any particularly distinctive flavor, color and mouthfeel. Someone made the point on these forums recently that the water used to dilute vodka down to bottle proof probaby has as much, if not more influence over the character of the finished product than the ingredients that were distilled.

DrinkBoy · November 7, 2003

Correct.

While if you distill fermented grapes (wine) you normally get brandy. If you distill it to 95% alcohol or above, then add water to bring it down to the normal 40-50% alcohol, you have "Vodka".

In this way, anything that is fermentable/distillable can be used to produce Vodka. The reason that most vodkas are made using grain, is because it is by far the cheapest way to arrive at a distillable product.

-Robert

www.DrinkBoy.com

slkinsey · November 7, 2003

In this way, anything that is fermentable/distillable can be used to produce Vodka. The reason that most vodkas are made using grain, is because it is by far the cheapest way to arrive at a distillable product.

And then there's the new Soylent Vodka everyone's talking about. That uses...

LJC · November 7, 2003

"In this way, anything that is fermentable/distillable can be used to produce Vodka. The reason that most vodkas are made using grain, is because it is by far the cheapest way to arrive at a distillable product."

I've got a pair of gym socks that I am sure will ferment so I guess I'll be making vodka this weekend.

KatieLoeb · November 7, 2003

Thank you, Katie!!...
Buddha's hand Vodka....It sounds fantastic! I would love to know if this stuff is as as amazing as it sounds/looks....I am also interested in the distillation process.....Any takers?

Yeah - I haven't tried the Buddha's hand yet, but if it's anything like the other flavors, I'm certain it's delicious. These guys are the same folks that make the Germain-Robin brandies and those are an excellent product as well.

JAZ of eGCI cocktail classes fame suggested a drink of the Hangar One Mandarin Blossom with a splash of Lillet Blonde. It's my new favorite drink! Sort of an instant French Martini, but with a little more panache and delicacy. Really tasty. I'm not sure whether to thank her or blame her for my downfall... :wink: :biggrin:

Varmint · November 7, 2003

In this way, anything that is fermentable/distillable can be used to produce Vodka. The reason that most vodkas are made using grain, is because it is by far the cheapest way to arrive at a distillable product.
And then there's the new Soylent Vodka everyone's talking about. That uses...

:laugh: Mmmmmmm. Soylent Vodka with Tabasco. It really gives it that extra meaty flavor!

Feather · November 7, 2003

And then there's t he new Soylent Vodka everyone's talking about. That uses...

:biggrin:

**JAZ** · November 7, 2003

Thank you, Katie!!...
Buddha's hand Vodka....It sounds fantastic! I would love to know if this stuff is as as amazing as it sounds/looks....I am also interested in the distillation process.....Any takers?
Yeah - I haven't tried the Buddha's hand yet, but if it's anything like the other flavors, I'm certain it's delicious. These guys are the same folks that make the Germain-Robin brandies and those are an excellent product as well.
JAZ of eGCI cocktail classes fame suggested a drink of the Hangar One Mandarin Blossom with a splash of Lillet Blonde. It's my new favorite drink! Sort of an instant French Martini, but with a little more panache and delicacy. Really tasty. I'm not sure whether to thank her or blame her for my downfall...

Actually, I think it's a collaboration between G-R and St. George Spirits in Alameda. As I understand it, St. George distills it and G-R does the marketing.

In any case, it is wonderful. And I'm glad you like the drink, Katie. (Should I say "thanks" or "I'm sorry"? :cool: )

Any great ideas for a name for it? I've been calling it a Blonde Bombshell ("blonde" from the Lillet, obviously, and "bombshell" from the abandoned naval airplane hangar where it's produced) but I'm not entirely happy with that name. It seems a little ferocious for such a subtle drink.

FoodZealot · November 7, 2003

I think that one is called Cirac? I was at an event sponsored by this brand several months ago. They had "brand ambassadors" to introduce the guest to it.
I thought it was all right, but not really vodka. First of all it had a slight flavor and sweetness to it, and secondly isn't a spirit distilled from grape juice really grappa, marc etc.?
I asked the "ambassador" this question but since he was really some unemployed actor trying to act like a vodka expert he was unable to give me an educated response. He said, "no, it's vodka; that’s what they told us anyway".

I tasted this recently - Ciroc Vodka. There's some faint fruitiness to it. Enjoyable, but not mindblowing, at least to me...

~Tad

KatieLoeb · November 7, 2003

Actually, I think it's a collaboration between G-R and St. George Spirits in Alameda. As I understand it, St. George distills it and G-R does the marketing.
In any case, it is wonderful. And I'm glad you like the drink, Katie. (Should I say "thanks" or "I'm sorry"? )
Any great ideas for a name for it? I've been calling it a Blonde Bombshell ("blonde" from the Lillet, obviously, and "bombshell" from the abandoned naval airplane hangar where it's produced) but I'm not entirely happy with that name. It seems a little ferocious for such a subtle drink.

You are right and I stand corrected. I knew it had something to do with the Germain-Robin guys, but I confess I kind of skimmed over that portion of the website.

The drink is delicious, and you can just say "You're Welcome"! :biggrin: I haven't had enough of them yet for it to truly be my downfall, but the potential is definitely there.

The "Blonde Bombshell" would be a better name for a martini made with Lillet and perhaps the regular Hangar vodka. Sounds sort of strong and manly, no? How about a "Mandarin Blonde" or a "Blonde Blossom" for the other? At least it's a little more girlie and suited to the subtlety of the drink... :smile:

jat · November 8, 2003

Anyone tried Youri Dolgoruki from Moskow? Vodka and champagne, two of my

favorites, decadence. :raz:

foodpsycho · December 28, 2003

I saw a TV add for a vodka called Circa or something like that. Its made in France and from grapes. I thought vodka was only made from grain. Short of buying myself a bottle, I thought someone here would know something more about it.

fresco · December 28, 2003

It's usually made from grains (as whiskeys are) occasionally from potatoes but could be made from pretty much anything, I'd think, including sugar, so long as all the flavors were filtered out.

anil · December 28, 2003

Grey Goose - another French fine Vodka is also made of grapes.

Edited December 28, 2003 by anil (log)

unreserved · December 28, 2003

Not tried it, but I think it is spelled Ciroc.

beans · December 28, 2003

See this discussion.

Grey Goose is not made from grapes! It is a blend of grains and mineral water that is filtered by champagne limestone from the Genté springs of Cognac. :wink:

anil · December 28, 2003

...
Grey Goose is not made from grapes! It is a blend of grains and mineral water that is filtered by champagne limestone from the Genté springs of Cognac.

I stand corrected - My brain is still fogged :wink:

beans · December 28, 2003

...
Grey Goose is not made from grapes! It is a blend of grains and mineral water that is filtered by champagne limestone from the Genté springs of Cognac.
I stand corrected - My brain is still fogged

With your lovely and dreamy [ :sigh: ] suggestion on the Mojito thread, I can understand. :wink:

:laugh:

Mayhaw Man · December 28, 2003

I know that a million people will jump in and correct me if I stray-so I will forge ahead.

Isn't Grape vodka another name for (pick one or add one of your own liking) grappa, eau de vie, fruit brandy, etc., etc? Generally these native brandies (moonshine, call it what you like) are single distilled in a pot still and most commercial vodka is distilled multiple times in a column. Single distillations and pot still work generally retains a fair amount of the essence of it's origin.

I mean, Vodka is a (I believe by definition, regardless of the origin of the original source of sugars for fermentation and eventual distilling) neutral spirit. Does this just mean that it has been distilled so many times that it doesn't matter what it comes from? It would seem to me that the only thing that would affect it after multiple distillations would be the dilution of it back to 80 proof (40 gl) with distilled water (which in itself should have no taste).

So what difference does it make where it comes from if by definition it is not supposed to taste like much?

Incidentally, I am not looking for an argument about whether or not different vodkas taste differently, obviously they do. What I am saying is that by the time it is distilled to a reasonably pure level, what's left in terms of essence of the original material used in fermentation and distilling?

This seems like just one more in an endless line of advertising goop to sell something that is not supposed to taste like much anyway.

TRUE STORY: The principle in this story is dead. So you can't ask him, but if you ask me I will tell you it is true because I was there :wink: Really. I am vague here because I still do a little business with a couple of the guys involved

I was in the office of CEO of one of the largest alcoholic beverage distributors and manufacturers in the US. They make and own a number of very large brands. During the beginning of the Vodka craze (app. 1997) they put out a premium version of their flagship vodka. When I was offered a sample bottle (very large and very commemorative) I queried the difference between the flagship brand and the new "premium brand". The guy looked at me and smiled happily, "about ten bucks a bottle". :shock: :laugh:

There was no difference. Just a swap of change parts and glass on the line and $10 more a bottle. His explanation was that ultimately, vodka is vodka. That certainly some is made better than others and is distilled to a finer point, but that since it was not going to improve and would have no real aging, that it was all in the still and how good the operator was at getting the stuff to taste like nothing.

Once again, I don't even drink the stuff, but I thought this was interesting.

fresco · December 28, 2003

Makes sense. The really cheap stuff has a discernable taste--like impending death. The better stuff, no. So you are paying bigger and bigger dollars for an absence of taste?

Mayhaw Man · December 28, 2003

Makes sense. The really cheap stuff has a discernable taste--like impending death. The better stuff, no. So you are paying bigger and bigger dollars for an absence of taste?

On another note:

I was formerly employed by the guy who made Black Death Vodka. mmmmmmm

"The vodka to die for!"

We used to have a warehouse next to the brewery in Tecate full of these little wooden coffins that were intransit from somewhere around Puebla up to a bottling facility (or maybe two, as I think that they bottled it both in New Orleans and L.A.) in the U.S.

They made for great little conversation pieces. :wacko:

The guy sold the brand to some Europeans several years back.

beans · December 28, 2003

Isn't Grape vodka another name for (pick one or add one of your own liking) grappa, eau de vie, fruit brandy, etc., etc? Generally these native brandies (moonshine, call it what you like) are single distilled in a pot still and most commercial vodka is distilled multiple times in a column. Single distillations and pot still work generally retains a fair amount of the essence of it's origin.

See this answer for a start [the link I provided above on a previous discussion]:

Grappa and Marc are distilled from the "must" left over from the winemaking process. This consists lategely of grape skins, stems and the like.
Fundamentally, one can make vodka out of just about anything so long as it is refined to the point where it loses any particularly distinctive flavor, color and mouthfeel. Someone made the point on these forums recently that the water used to dilute vodka down to bottle proof probaby has as much, if not more influence over the character of the finished product than the ingredients that were distilled.

I mean, Vodka is a (I believe by definition, regardless of the origin of the original source of sugars for fermentation and eventual distilling) neutral spirit. Does this just mean that it has been distilled so many times that it doesn't matter what it comes from?

Purdy much. :wink:

So what difference does it make where it comes from if by definition it is not supposed to taste like much?

Not sure, but perhaps a new way to make it? There are subtle nuances in how it tastes and how it "finishes."

What I am saying is that by the time it is distilled to a reasonably pure level, what's left in terms of essence of the original material used in fermentation and distilling?
This seems like just one more in an endless line of advertising goop to sell something that is not supposed to taste like much anyway.

I see your point. :smile: My best theory is the master distiller's own preferences?

Once again, I don't even drink the stuff, but I thought this was interesting.

It is interesting. I hope DrinkBoy and others weigh in here on this. :cool:

Brad S · December 29, 2003

I recieved a bottle of Ciroc from a co worker,it is one of the best Vodkas i've had.

The grapes are mearly the vessel to develope fermentation,Cirac is 5 times distilled.

Pan · December 29, 2003

Isn't Grape vodka another name for (pick one or add one of your own liking) grappa, eau de vie, fruit brandy, etc., etc? Generally these native brandies (moonshine, call it what you like) are single distilled in a pot still and most commercial vodka is distilled multiple times in a column. Single distillations and pot still work generally retains a fair amount of the essence of it's origin.
See this answer for a start [the link I provided above on a previous discussion]:
Grappa and Marc are distilled from the "must" left over from the winemaking process. This consists lategely of grape skins, stems and the like.

Right. And Grappa has a very distinctive taste (one could say an acquired taste).

My brother swears he can taste the difference between different vodkas, for whatever that's worth. I doubt I can because the alcohol taste is too strong for me to tell the difference, I would guess.

Mayhaw Man · December 29, 2003

Grappa has a very distinctive taste (one could say an acquired taste).

I acquired it a while back :wink:

It was not a very difficult acquisition, unlike my experience with some other acquired tastes.......escargot, really stinky cheese, strongly flavored fish, etc.

The Grappa-not so hard :laugh:

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