Hill Country

[wannabechef]

I had a chance to try Hill Country with a buddy of mine last night. Overall it was spectacular. Unfortunately I didn't bring my camera, but here's a rundown:

Got there around 7:30 on a Thurs. They said there was a 35 minute wait but we were seated after about 15 min. The hostess gave us a quick orientation of how/where to order and then brought us to our seats.

We wasted no time and went right up to the meat counter. The two of us ordered: 1 beef rib each, 2 pork ribs each, a half lb. of moist brisket to share (this was only about 3 1/2 slices!) and 1 link of regular sausage to share. We went right back to our table to devour the meat and didn't even bother getting sides. I was worried that this wasn't going to be enough food but I was soon proved wrong.

- Beef ribs: These were absolutely incredible. Far exceeded my expecations and was surprisingly my favorite meat. Amazing flavor, perfect seasoning and good meat/fat ratio.

- Pork ribs: Slightly disappointing. They were definately the juciest and most succently pork ribs I've had but they over spiced them. It was a salt and pepper based rub - similar to the salt and pepper beef ribs I've had at Blue Smoke. They were a bit too salty and a bit too peppery. I also thought they required a touch of BBQ sauce. They have a sauce on the table but it was WAY too sweet for me and made them even worse. Overall I really enjoyed them still, but I prefer Blue Smokes pork ribs.

- Moist Brisket: You have the choice of moist or lean. Of course I always go for the more fatty one but in this case I think it may have been too much. They leave on the entire fat layer which I thought was unnecessary. The meat itself was extremely fatty anyway. Needless to say it was absolutely delicoius. I'll try the lean next time.

- Sausage: This also far exceeded my expectations. The sausage was nice and spicey and had good smokey flavor.

We devoured all this meat in under 10 minutes with grease dripping off our hands onto the butcher paper they serve you in. After taking a little bit of a breather, we were considering if we should get another round of meat - but instead decided to try one of the sides. We just split a small mac n cheese and it also was incredible - maybe one of the best I've had. Very sharp, cheddary flavor.

After finishing this off we went up to take a look at the deserts and didn't see anything that looked to appealing, so we passed. In the end the bill for this food ended up being ~$40 including one drink. Not too bad.

All in all I love this place. They didn't pressure us to give up our seats at all as we sat and talked, there was a live blues band, and the food was absolutely incredible. I plan on going back again as soon as possible and trying other items on the menu. My only other comment on the food was that some of the meat could've had a bit more smokey flavor. I'm not a BBQ expert and I'm curious to know what someone with a more seasoned pallette thinks of this.

~WBC

[ewindels]

Hit HC last night with 3 friends. Generalities:

The sides rock, and in general far outstrip the handful of other 'cue joints I've tried (Dinosaur, R&S, Daisy Mae's, Pies N Thighs, RUB). The corn pudding is a thing of beauty, and actually tastes like corn. A law should be immediately created to mandate the bourbon sweet potato mash on every Thanksgiving table throughout the country -- and I don't even like sweet potatoes. The cucumber salad is a fresh, crisp, slightly acidic counterpoint to the others. The coleslaw could have used a little more tang for my taste, but was fine. But I easily vote the mac and cheese as my new desert island food: just the right balance of goo and chew, seriously deep cheesy flavor, a sprinkling of (I think) parmesan on top for a little toasty crunch -- I would categorically go out of my way for a tub or two of this to take home. NYC's new best comfort food.

The meat, on the other hand, I found overall unremarkable. Now as a meeskite from the Heights (Brooklyn, that is), I don't pretend to know buttkis about what is or isn't authentic 'cue, though from what I've read this probably qualifies as a really pure specimen. As far as I could tell it's just slow smoked meat, no seasonings or nothing (or if there were, you sure couldn't taste them). With all due respect, brisket is IMHO the world's most boring cut of beef, and begs to have something serious done to it. Just slow smoking doesn't cut it, or last night's sampling's didn't make the case. The sausage was also fairly meh. My friend's chicken was juicy and crisp, but nothing to go out of your way for. Didn't get around to any of the ribs.

And probably won't: the whole shtick with having to stand on line (20 minutes last night), the slightly overwhelming ferocity of the actual meat counter (we were all soundly abused for not knowing exactly what we wanted and how much), the paucity of waitstaff for the tables (it took another 20 minutes to place drink orders), and the final 15 minutes to stand in line to turn in our tickets, which it then turned out we hadn't needed to do: none of this coupled with the blandness of the main attraction encourages me to go back. At least, not for a sit down visit. The mac and cheese, however, is going to an obligatory stop any time I'm within 15 blocks of this joint.

[jon777]

My wife through my 40th b-day party at Hill Country last week, as it's been on my "must-do" list since it was announced. I thought it works well for a big gathering, and (according to my wife), they were very easy to work with. For big parties you pre-order everything and it's a per-person price. You chose from cornbread, 3 meats, 3 sides and 2 desserts -- all presented family style. What was particularly accomodating was that in ordering the meats (we chose brisket, pork ribs and sausage), they had no problem giving us 1/2 moist 1/2 lean brisket, and splitting the sausage between the 2. I essence allowing us to try 5 meats...

Overall, everything I thought was very good. The post-oak does not lend a heavy handed smoke (like mesquite would) and lets the meat come through.

Lean brisket had just enough fat to stay moist, although being lean and not aggressively seasoned was a little bland.

The moist brisket was decadent, with plenty of fat (some would argue too much -- I don't believe in such a thing). It truly melted in your mouth. Far and away the best brisket I've had in NY. Blue smoke on their best day is close, no one else in the game.

I'm a little more luke warm on the ribs, but I think it's a personal BBQ presence. These were well smoked and very meaty, but I would have preferred a more seasoned spice rub, than the basic salt/pepper used here. Nothing wrong with these -- good BBQ, just by personal preference is too more flavor (either through a more seasoned rub, last minute saucing, or stronger flavored wood) with regards to ribs.

The sausage was excellent --- both varieties. Both backed a fair amount of heat (too much for some people), and had wonderfully crisp casings with moist and flavorful interiors.

Sides were universally decadent: Corn pudding, Bourbon Sweet Potatoes (yum), Baked Beans that had nice chunks of pork -- a close 2nd to Daisy Mae's, Mac & Cheese with a very rich, sharp cheddar cheese sauce (and I believe Penne instead Macaroni).

I didn't really have much in the way of dessert as (a) I was already stuffed, and (b) my wife had brought in a Little Pie Company Sour Cream Walnut Apple Pie (a personal favorite).

Bar has a very nice selection of Bourbons.

All in all, a great night and they handled everything very well. I will be back to try and beef rib as well as another hit of brisket and sides. Just as soon as my cholesterol gets back to normal.

[Fat Guy]

I had a superb lunch experience at Hill Country today. It far exceeded my expectations, and was the single best barbecue meal I've had in New York City. The meat was on par with what I've had in Lockhart, Texas, and the sides were -- as is the case with several NYC barbecue restaurants -- better than anything I've had in barbecue country.

The place was not crowded at all, in part because of crummy weather today. We just walked up to the counter and got our food. It took about 20 minutes to acquire all the food, but that was because we interacted a lot with the guys at the counter. We then selected a table downstairs -- we were the only people sitting downstairs -- and hung out for a couple of hours. I can't say what the experience would have been like had the place been crowded -- I imagine not as pleasant. But the food is the food.

We had the moist brisket, the pork ribs, the beef ribs and the jalapeno sausage. For sides we had baked beans, beer-braised pinto beans, white shoepeg corn pudding, and greenbean casserole with extra fried onions on top. I thought every single item was first rate. The moist brisket was like brisket custard, the pork ribs were well seasoned and quite tender but still with some structure, the beef ribs had an amazing sweet lacquered peppery crust, and the sausage was definitive. The corn pudding was the best of the sides, but all were great.

This is minimalist meat, seasoned with salt, pepper and cayenne. I loved this style of barbecue when I had it in Texas, and I was pleasantly surprised that Hill Country really pulled it off today. It's only one visit, but if the experience is replicable then this will be a new favorite. It's overpriced, but I think it's possible to manage the order so as not to spend a ridiculous amount of money.

Blue Bell ice cream -- what's the big deal? The banana pudding was good, though.

[wannabechef]

FG - What did you think about the level of smokiness? I haven't had the real deal in Texas before to compare to. Is the smoke level about the same? I found everything to be absolutely excellent there as well but was missing a bit of smokey flavor in the meat. I particularly noticed this in the brisket. Also - did you try the table sauce?

[Mayhaw Man]

Blue Bell ice cream -- what's the big deal?

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It's a Texas joint so they have ice cream from Texas. You want they should serve some gelato for dessert? Sheesh.

[Fat Guy]

FG - What did you think about the level of smokiness? I haven't had the real deal in Texas before to compare to. Is the smoke level about the same? I found everything to be absolutely excellent there as well but was missing a bit of smokey flavor in the meat. I particularly noticed this in the brisket. Also - did you try the table sauce?

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Well, I think it has smoke flavor but it's subtle smoke flavor. That's basically the point with Lockhart-style barbecue, as I understand it: the emphasis is on the meat, whereas the smoke, seasonings and sauces are minor enhancements not the main event as they are in, say, Memphis. In my notes from the trip I took to Lockhart a few years back I noted (at Smitty's) hardly any of the strong smoke flavor characteristic of a lot of the best barbecue in the other states where I'd just been. (Of course with the sausages it's a totally different situation -- they're quite smoky.)

I didn't try the sauce on the table. I couldn't bear the thought of adulterating the meat.

[Kent Wang]

Steven, while I greatly respect opinion on many issues, your comment that Hill Country is on par with Lockhart makes me raise my eyebrow. No where outside of Central Texas is on par with Lockhart. Not even in Dallas, Houston and San Antonio and these are places in Texas.

One major difference is the use of the Ole Hickory "pit". Southern Pride is another company that makes a similar device. None of the top Central Texas places use them; they instead use the brick "finishing pit" depicted in Jason Perlow's blog for the entire cooking process. I cannot explain why it works better, but a sampling of the places in Texas that do use the traditional method versus the new fangled pits is conclusively in favor of the traditional method.

Frankly, I think the use of the brick pit as a "finishing pit" is more an attempt to deceive the customer into thinking this is cooked in the traditional process than for any legitimate cooking reason. Salt Lick here in Texas employs the same trick.

Some commentary about the photos in Jason's blog:

Was the brisket really served in pop form? An incredible amount of fat is lost on the cutting board that way. It should always be served like so (Cooper's in Llano, TX):

The ribs also look funny to me. Are they all spare ribs?

I will be in NYC at the end of the month. I considered going to Hill Country just to see what the hubbub was about, but am not sure if I'm prepared to spend my limited time for the high possibility of disappointment.

edit: Some confusion about Jason's blog.

Edited September 12, 2007 by Kent Wang (log)

[Kent Wang]

Blue Bell ice cream -- what's the big deal?

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It's a Texas joint so they have ice cream from Texas. You want they should serve some gelato for dessert? Sheesh.

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Yeah, Blue Bell is a pretty commercial product. Of course, so is Big Red soda. They have it because it's part of the Texas identity, which is cool, but let me just say that as a Texan I'm not vouching for the quality.

FG - What did you think about the level of smokiness? I haven't had the real deal in Texas before to compare to. Is the smoke level about the same? I found everything to be absolutely excellent there as well but was missing a bit of smokey flavor in the meat. I particularly noticed this in the brisket. Also - did you try the table sauce?

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Well, I think it has smoke flavor but it's subtle smoke flavor. That's basically the point with Lockhart-style barbecue, as I understand it: the emphasis is on the meat, whereas the smoke, seasonings and sauces are minor enhancements not the main event as they are in, say, Memphis. In my notes from the trip I took to Lockhart a few years back I noted (at Smitty's) hardly any of the strong smoke flavor characteristic of a lot of the best barbecue in the other states where I'd just been. (Of course with the sausages it's a totally different situation -- they're quite smoky.)

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It's hard to discuss smokiness without being there in person but it should be so smoky that, say, if you take some home to go and leave it in the car while you stop to go to the rest room, once you return to the car the smoky smell will hit you square in the face -- even stronger than the few times I've had to go boxes with dishes with truffle oil.

It should be quite smoky. If you found it to be lacking in smoke flavor, you must be either some kind of crazy smoke fiend or something is wrong with the meat.

[Fat Guy]

Kent, all I can say is that the meal I had at Hill Country yesterday was fully as good, meat-wise, as what I had in Lockhart -- perhaps even more consistently good overall -- and the sides were superior to pretty much anything I've had anywhere across barbecue country. Maybe tomorrow I'll go back and Hill Country will be lousy. I don't know. But this one meal was fantastic, spot-on, etc.

[Kent Wang]

Or perhaps your meals in Lockhart were below average. Indeed, barbecue is highly variable, from the cuts of meat to how the grill was handled that day. Reviewing barbecue is more difficult and requires more data points than any other genre of food.

Their sides do look great. Only one of the Central Texas joints has good sides, Louie Mueller's in Taylor -- which I think is a tiny bit better than Lockhart anyway, and the ambiance is second to none; next time you're here you must go -- but they pale compared to the photos of Hill Country's sides. There just has never been much of a focus on sides with the top joints, and I theorize that it may even be a point of pride for them to have sub-par sides, just as many of them do not allow forks or sauce.

Even if Hill Country fails to meet the impossibly high standards of the top Central Texas joints, a good attempt is better than nothing. I imagine it has raised the standard of barbecue in New York, which can only be a good thing. Also, most barbecue outside of the South is in the Kansas City or Carolinas style, so I'm glad that Central Texas is getting some representation.

[Fat Guy]

I went back to Hill Country this evening with a group of seven, so that we could order a lot of meat and do a reality check. Reality checked out. Everything was as good as I remembered from the other day. Needless to say, I'll need to return a few more times to track the evenness of the presentation, but at this point I'm strongly inclined to say Hill Country is the best thing to happen to New York City barbecue in a long time.

I even brought a Texan friend, who lived in the Houston area and knows barbecue well, and his summary was that it was "Very high level Texas barbecue at twice the price."

Needless to say, the first thing I did when I got home was check whether Hill Country in New York really charges twice as much for barbecue as, say, Kreuz in Lockhart. It does not. Hill Country is, to be sure, more expensive. But only one item I cross-referenced cost twice as much or more. Everything else ranged from a little bit more to not quite twice as much.

I was actually a little surprised by some of these calculations. For example the pork spare ribs at Kreuz go for $9.50/lb and at Hill Country they're $11/lb. That's only 15.789% more at Hill Country than at Kreuz. When you consider New York real estate issues, that's an incredible bargain. If you're looking to eat economically at Hill Country, focus on pork ribs. The item that's off the charts is the sausage, where the links cost three times as much at Hill Country than at Kreuz.

If you're interested, here are the points of price comparison, based on the Kreuz and Hill Country websites as of today:

Pork Spare Ribs

Kreuz: $9.50/lb

Hill Country: $11/lb

Hill Country is 15.789% more than Kreuz

Boneless Prime Rib

Kreuz: $17.90/lb

Hill Country: $29/lb

Hill Country is 62.011% more than Kreuz

Shoulder Clod

Kreuz: $9.90/lb

Hill Country: $18/lb

Hill Country is 81.818% more than Kreuz

Beef Brisket

Kreuz: $9.90/lb

Hill Country: $16.75 (lean) or $18.50 (moist)

Using the moist figure, Hill Country is 86.869% more than Kreuz, whereas for lean it's 69.192% more.

Pork Chops

Kreuz: $9.50/lb

Hill Country: $18/lb

Hill Country is 89.474% more than Kreuz

Sausage:

Kreuz: $1.75/link

Hill Country: $5.25/link

Hill Country is 200% more than Kreuz

Incidentally, what are you all doing about tipping at Hill Country? It's sort of an odd service situation: there are servers, but they don't provide full service -- yet the cost of dining at Hill Country is as high as dining at plenty of full-service restaurants. Is double the tax too much in this situation? What percentage have you guys been tipping?

Oh yes, here's a photo of all our meat. Unfortunately the brisket and sausage are under the ribs so you can't really see them:

P.S. Blue Bell ice cream is still utterly unremarkable, and they serve it hard as a rock so you have to sit around before it softens to an edible consistency.

[kathryn]

Thanks for doing this legwork, FG!

When I went in last, we tipped about 20% and felt a little strange about it. We were actually worried that the meatcutters weren't going get what they deserved, especially since one had spent some time consulting with us on how much meat to get. Had there been a separate tips cup at that counter, we would have tipped there.

[slkinsey]

Kreuz is fairly expensive, especially considering where it is. For another frame of reference, Goode Company, which is arguably the best place in Houston, albeit not as good as Kreuz charges 7.95 for brisket, the flagship meat of Texas barbecue. Hill Country charges a bit more than double for lean brisket, and around 2 1/3 times more for fatty brisket. How large are the sides at Hill Country? At Goode it's 6.25 for a quart, which I assume is right around the size of Hill Country's "Feed Yer Family" portions selling at 14 to 16 bucks. Most likely, a dinner at Hill Country would come out approximately double what a dinner at Goode Company would cost, if not more.

[Fat Guy]

Goode Company, according to the menu on the restaurant's website, charges $13.95 per pound for brisket.

I'm willing to wager that the sides, while way cheaper, aren't in Hill Country's league. Hill Country's sides are expensive, but superb.

[slkinsey]

D'oh! Was looking on the wrong part of the menu!

[TAPrice]

Isn't 80-90% percent more real close to twice the price (i.e. 100% more)?

Although twice the price for similar quality product in Manhattan seems like a fair deal to me.

[Jammin]

I'm willing to wager that the sides, while way cheaper, aren't in Hill Country's league. Hill Country's sides are expensive, but superb.

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Goode Co. doesn't really offer fancy sides. It's baked beans, dirty rice, potato salad and such. (man, I love that potato salad...) But they do a mean jalapeno cheese bread which you get with the meal. It's still very much a popular place and very well regarded in Houston, but many locals no longer think it is in a league by itself. Yeah, whatever. As if that line out the door is a bunch of tourists.

Re: price. Almost everyone at Goode Co. gets full meals which come with sides and that isn't offered at HC. That's around $10-14 a person. My visit to HC, we spent around $60 for 2 of us, so 200% is probably about right, maybe on the low side even since you don't tip at Goode Co; it's cafeteria line style and you take your tray out to your table.

Please don't ask me to compare the meats. They are completely different and I grew up with one of them.

Edited September 18, 2007 by Jammin (log)

[ahr]

When I went in last, we tipped about 20% and felt a little strange about it. We were actually worried that the meatcutters weren't going get what they deserved, especially since one had spent some time consulting with us on how much meat to get. Had there been a separate tips cup at that counter, we would have tipped there.

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According to a management type whom I recently asked, all tips go to the cocktail waiters and bussers. The meat countermen and slicers do not participate in the tip pool.

[JimH]

I ventured into the New York section because I wanted to drool over good pizza and Italian sausage. I saw this thread and thought I'd take a look. I am not trying to start anything here, just wanted to point this out. I was absolutely blown away by the brisket descriptions. The "lean" brisket is what is served as brisket when you order it. Done properly it should be moist (not dripping with fat), tender and if pulled between your fingers should stretch like an accordian. The "moist" brisket is normally chopped for chopped BBQ sandwiches ($1 or $2 each), not served as brisket. If you are being served the point (aka moist) part of the brisket, that's not good BBQ. When you buy a brisket here, a whole packer brisket, there are two basic parts - the point and the flat. The flat is what you are concetrating on when you BBQ, it's done when a fork or other implement of destruction slides into the meat with little resistense. The point is loaded with fat which renders as you cook basting the flat. Some people will cut the point from the flat and put it back on the smoker to further render the fat, I'm too lazy and trim out the fat as much a possible. Hmm, now I'm hungry.

[Jaymes]

The "moist" brisket is normally chopped for chopped BBQ sandwiches ($1 or $2 each), not served as brisket.  If you are being served the point (aka moist) part of the brisket, that's not good BBQ. 

Speak for yerself, son.

[Nathan]

if you're not going to be open on your regular hours (here's looking at you Hill Country), it's your job to put it on your website (or alter your hours on the site).

edit: oh, and then don't have your staff lie and tell people that the Monday closing is mentioned on the website. it's not.

Edited January 8, 2008 by Nathan (log)

[cchen]

indeed. i went for lunch today and saw they had posted it on a chalkboard, but there was no mention on the website when i was looking at the menu.

btw, moist brisket still as good as every other time. pork ribs... not so much.

[Nathan]

so...when they're actually open...that fatty, er moist brisket is as good as ever. why there are people who don't like it is beyond me...

had the beer can game hen for the first time (haven't tasted this preparation since the early 90's)...darn juicy and good.

[Eatmywords]

Very much enjoyed last night’s get together. So nice to catch up with egr’s (esp after 6 months in Asia with no American bbq at our disposition).

Some things better than others at HC. The brisket is incredibly juicy (as many have noted) and laden with webby and solid layers of fat. It is delicious but I found myself doing more trimming than I would have liked. And is it bbq? It so wet it seems more like pot roast. Not to take away from the overall satisfaction. It was damn good.

The beef and pork ribs were massive. Both pretty good, perfect crispness, right amount of seasoning, smoke and fat. The pork a bit too salty and beef slightly over cooked but both very edible. I agree with Nathan on the can hen. It was an excellent quality bird and very moist. Perfectly prepared. Also the spicy sausage (not spicy at all) was complex, smokey and much leaner than I would’ve guessed. Slightly over-priced but well worth it.

But the true stars were the sides. Green bean casserole, Corn pudding, potato salad, and most of all baked beans. It is apparent there is much attention given to them unlike many other places.

There is one real annoying thing about HC and that is waiting on an often lengthy line to pay your check. -Stuffed and about to enter a food coma, its the last thing you have patience for.

Would def return to this place though.