The Atkins Diet Topic

[JohnnyH]

I've been "doing" Atkins since about January, and I'm wondering if anyone else who's tried the diet has had an experience similar to mine.

Overall, I'd have to rate my experience with regard to losing weight as extraordinary. After the first few weeks, I was used to the plan and it really wasn't a hassle to stick with it. I had lost a total of 30 lbs. by mid- April, and I've been able to keep it off -- dialing foods that were intially off-limits back into my diet, making sure to keep all things in moderation.

Herein lies the rub: I had a physical last week, part of which was, of course, blood work. Long story short --Not good. Cholesterol levels fairly through the ceiling (250 total ). The last time it was checked was in '98, but back then it was all the way down at 150.

Atkins' critics have long predicted this kind of reaction, but Dr. Atkins himself always refuted their arguments by touting his own studies that showed cholesterol levels actually going down in people that followed his plan. High cholesterol does run in my family, and I'm reluctant to blame my experience on the diet. Anyone else have a similar -- or, for that matter, entirely different -- experience?

[MatthewB]

Steingarten has covered this in detail.

Check one of the recent Vogue columns. (About 4 months ago or so.)

Edit: His cholesterol was better in more than one way. Also, note that you didn't have your cholesterol checked at the time you started the diet. Maybe you were at 280 in December. As with everything, baseline baseline baseline.

Edited August 9, 2003 by MatthewB (log)

[docsconz]

The total cholesterol only tells part of the story. Much more significant is the ratio between high and low density lipoproteins. If the bulk of your cholesterol is made up of HDL the total cholesterol is of much less significance. Another important number is the triglycerides.

[Ladybug]

One of my best friends did the Atkins diet and lost nearly 50 pounds, but her cholesterol went up 50 points. She'd had her cholesterol checked before the diet and it was fine then. Her doctor put her on some sort of cholesterol lowering drug (I forget what kind) and she has sworn off of Atkins. She has managed to keep the weight off, which is a good thing.

My husband did the Atkins diet for a couple months and lost about 25 pounds. He hasn't had his cholesterol checked. (But I've been nagging him to do so!) His cholesterol was borderline before. He's gained 6 or 7 pounds back.

[Stone]

Breakfast and snacks.

If I eat one more egg, I'm gonna start clucking. What else for breaky? A wedge of brie?

Snacks. Can't even have a carrot stick. Can't eat beef jerky at 10 a.m. (O.k., I can, but not today.) What's the options?

Veggies. Are these o.k.:

String beans

broccoli

cauliflower

lettuce

I am down 6 pounds in a week. But I have to say that when you think this much about everything you eat or order, it's much easier to control intake. I've eaten about 50% of my normal intake (which, of course, was at least 50% over normal).

[jhlurie]

Okay, I'll mix this up a bit by posting advice from the most unlikely of sources--a washed up sitcom actress.

Suzanne Sommers--who I've never had any occasion to appreciate except as the fulcrum point of a Thighmaster excercise device--claims that Atkins is basically sound but unrealistic because people can't keep it up. She claims that you can get much the same result as Atkins if you simply are careful to never have carbs and fats in the same meal.

Does the "Thighmistress" have a point or is she just trying to push an idea that will get her flaky self on TV and sell diet books of her own?

Edited August 21, 2003 by jhlurie (log)

[Stone]

She claims that you can get much the same result as Atkins if you simply are careful to never have carbs and fats in the same meal.

My understanding is that Atkins works because when your body runs out of carbs, it turns to fat for energy. If that's the case, I wouldn't expect that SS's theory would work. Frankly, I don't know if Atkins's theory is any good, but what the hell. I will say that after four days, it's no way to live.

[ronnie_suburban]

My understanding is that Atkins works because when your body runs out of carbs, it turns to fat for energy.  If that's the case, I wouldn't expect that SS's theory would work.  Frankly, I don't know if Atkins's theory is any good, but what the hell.  I will say that after four days, it's no way to live.

I've been on Atkins for the better part of this year (with some much-needed breaks built in)...

I've lost 30-35 pounds, lowered my bp considerably (went from 140/100 to 120/80) and chopped 70 points off my cholesterol.

That's the good part....now, here's the bad part....

For a foodie, Atkins is essentially prison. Yes, yes and yes I feel a lot better when I'm on Atkins, but the variety of choices is so narrow (especially over time) that it gets to be a major drag. When you're thinking to yourself 'steak again?' you know you're in trouble.

Atkins does work and the science behind it is sound (witness the miracles of Benign Dietary Ketosis--burning fat for fuel), but applying it on an everyday, practical basis is tough. If you're at all interested, I highly recommend reading the book and by the same token, I wouldn't venture down 'Atkins Avenue' without having done so.

That said, even if the diet doesn't work for you, there are still a few (somewhat untold) truths about nutrition and food revealed within. You will never look at food the same way again after reading or trying Atkins. After a while on Atkins, you will come to understand that, nutritionally speaking, a bagel and a donut are essentially the same. You will be more aware than ever of the extreme dangers of nutritionally devoid carbohydrates.

=R=

[jhlurie]

My understanding is that Atkins works because when your body runs out of carbs, it turns to fat for energy.  If that's the case, I wouldn't expect that SS's theory would work.  Frankly, I don't know if Atkins's theory is any good, but what the hell.  I will say that after four days, it's no way to live.

The one appearance I saw from her (on an otherwise mind-numbingly boring show called "The View" I saw while flipping around the other day while on vacation--MTV and VH1 had crap on) wasn't that informative. She said something about how a mere meal's difference was enough. Lunch = carbs, Dinner = Fats or vice-versa. As long as the two didn't get digested within a few hours of each other. Then they changed the subject to her battle with breast cancer, so it stopped being relevent to this issue, and I insensitively changed the channel. And then I found out that "Gilligan's Island" can be seen virtually anytime if you flip enough channels. And then I went out and had lunch--carbs AND fats.

[Nick]

But real obesity on a cosmic scale occurs when a developing country strikes it rich like the Nauru with their guano harvests. Ot visit any one of a number of Native American reservations, particularly those who have been allowed to establish casinos.

John, perhaps you'd like to suggest an alternative to casinos for native people to gain some money. Also, do you have some factual basis for stating that obesity occurs "on a cosmic scale" after a casino has been opened?

I'm part Indian and I don't think casinos are the way to go - but, when you've lost all your land and been reduced to poverty because some white people came along and showed you a piece of paper that said their "king" had given them title to your property where you'd been living for many hundreds, or thousands of years, and they came like a plague - with guns and new diseases and ways that just couldn't be understood, what was one to do?. So, I say if a tribe wants to have a casino, let them have it. And if they can pocket some white peoples' money in the process, good enough.

I'd rather see this not happen. And most "traditionals" feel that way too. But.... if Indian people are getting obese (and many are) it's not the casinos. It's being reduced to eating white peoples' cheap food.

PS. I know you wrote your post a long time ago and maybe you're not even here anymore, but I felt a need to respond.

[KatieLoeb]

This isn't Cistercian asceticism

Please remember that the Cistercians were the first order that is known to have definitively cultivated vineyards and tried to produce quality over quantity in terms of harvest and end production. This is recorded since the 12th century. This was part of the Cistercian creed of pursuing the ideal of perfection in all things. Vine selection, tending and the entire winemaking process was a task which brought them closer to the Divine (a word which coincidentally has roots in "vine"). The Cistercians can be credited with the concept of creating/recognizing "Cru" vineyards in Burgundy, and building walls around some of them, which still are known as "Clos" vineyards.

The Cistercians may have been less hedonistic and lazy than the Benedictines, but they were hardly ascetic in their drinking habits!!

And now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[mags]

For what it's worth, I've been on Atkins -- more or less strictly, though I've fallen off the wagon many times -- for about a year. I've lost a little over 40 pounds, and my health has improved in some significant though private ways. Perhaps more importantly, I really don't see it as a "prison." I agree that the low-carb pasta is revolting (though I've used it relatively successfully to make the 50s-style casseroles -- like chicken tetrazinni -- that I secretly love). Actually, a lot of the low-carb packaged products are just totally puke-worthy. But I've been very happy with the way I eat. A sample menu:

Breakfast: strong coffee with half & half; stewed rhubarb sweetened with a mix of splenda and erythritol (which does a good imitation of sugar, to my tongue); a dollop of Greek yogurt

Lunch: tuna salad made with mayo, chopped scallion, and chopped green olives, packed into a red pepper

Dinner: thick, brined pork chop stuffed with spinach, feta, pine nuts, and some breadcrumbs made from low-carb bread (works fine for this); grilled zuchini and eggplant

And there are tons of alternatives. In the winter, I made a lot of beef stew with red wine and mushrooms (thickening the gravy with guar gum, which works very well, rather than flour), and bedded it down on turnip puree. I also ate buckets of clam chowder, with cauliflower standing in for the spuds and guar gum -- I love this stuff -- as a thickener. Lately I've been making a lot of curries (both Thai and Indian). When I'm craving serious, junky comfort food I make a tuna-melt on low-carb bread, which tastes fairly crummy eaten straight but makes a perfectly good grilled sandwich.

I don't have much of a sweet tooth, but I am a big fan of the LeCarb frozen desserts -- the lemon ice cream is a favorite, and the vanilla makes a swell milkshake -- and, particularly, of the Pure De-Lite chocolate truffles, especially the espresso and orange flavors. I made a very good strawberry pavlova (meringue, whipped cream, berries) for a dinner party a few weeks ago, and have several times made shortcakes with berries or peaches, whipped cream, and almond-flour pound cake.

Other regulars: crab cakes and chicken parm (both breaded with low-carb breadcrumbs), savory bread pudding (made with low-carb bread, again, and whatever bits of meat, cheese, and veggies need to get used up), baked shrimp with tomatoes and feta, cabbage with cream and bacon and balsamic vinegar, Chinese chicken salad with peanut sauce....

I tend to think that I'm eating a lot "healthier" -- meaning more veggies -- than I did in the low-fat days, and I like my food a whole lot. I do have to do a lot more cooking than I used to, but that's ok. And while I miss pasta, rice, and (especially) good bread, the trade-off has been well worth it for me.

[ronnie_suburban]

Thanks Mags...I love to hear about what others' Atkins routines are like. You've clearly investigated the 'low carb products' side of things more than I have.

And while I did use the term prison, one must vent from time to time. and I do get frustrated with what I still feel are somewhat limited choices. Perhaps my tone (a little flippant) belied my serious love and respect for Dr. Atkins and the work he did. There is no question that I feel great when I'm Atkins--way better than when I'm not.

It's wonderful to hear about your successes too. Okay, okay...I will refrain from turning this thread into an herbalife informercial.

=R=

[Jonathan Day]

Between a combination of exercise (a lot of it) and an Atkins programme I have lost 11 kg in the past couple of months.

I am not a zealot about Atkins. When we were in France, over the last few weeks, the local markets had white peaches whose perfume you could smell 10 metres away. And cherries, imported from Canada, that were the size of quails' eggs; eating one was like drinking a glass of fine wine. Yes, I had a few peaches and cherries. And the occasional glass of wine.

For me a major benefit of Atkins was that I became aware of the amounts of bread, pasta, potatoes, dried fruit, fruit juices, etc., that I was constantly and mindlessly consuming. My hunger for sugary and carbohyrdate-rich foods had simply grown out of control. I justified all of this on the grounds that it was, for the most part, "fat free": I could enjoy a baked potato, for example, with nothing more than a bit of salt and a grind of pepper. My servings of pasta, especially after an hour of hard cycling, had grown from 100g to 150g (dried product before cooking). I was making increasingly delicious and creative sorbets and eating too much of them. Who cared that the sugar solutions were at 18 degrees Baumé? It made the sorbet all the richer and creamier. And it was all fat free and therefore OK.

On the Atkins "induction" plan I was able to abandon these carbohydrates "cold turkey" and lose the cravings for them almost immediately. My appetite is now under much better control, and the energy sag that I experienced, with clocklike regularity, every afternoon, has disappeared. My one daily espresso still tastes delicious, but I don't feel any urge for more coffee later in the day. I do eat more for breakfast than I did before -- and less at lunch and dinner; that requires adjusting the daily schedule a bit.

Some Atkins pronouncements strike me as over the top. Except in the case of a diabetic, I can't see how a few breadcrumbs scattered over a gratin or a bit of flour dusted on a sole meunière is going to send someone into hyperinsulinism, or whatever the anti-Atkins condition is called. If something truly delicious is on offer, even a dessert, I am happy to eat a few bites of it. But only if it is exceptional: why indulge in stuff that isn't really wonderful, when there are so many good things available?

The other Atkins idea with which I have no resonance is the "fake carbs" business. I love chocolate, and I now eat very little of it. But what I do eat is really good. I love pasta, but have consumed no more than 50 grams of it in the last month. When a beautifully prepared and sauced pasta was offered at a restaurant, I ate less than half of an Italian-sized (i.e. small starter) portion. At a dinner in Nice a few weeks ago, a visiting artist and cook prepared a number of creative pizzas. I tasted each one. Why not? Why spend money on "fake carbs", ersatz bread or pasta or chocolate? My approach has been to eat a lot less of the real stuff, but to concentrate on what is really good. And to avoid fake food, at all costs.

Wine is a challenge, especially in France. It's considered deeply eccentric not to drink wine with a restaurant meal. And of course wines do have those dreaded carbohydrates. Again, the solution for me has been to drink a lot less, but to make what I do drink a lot better. Restaurants are offering more and more half- and two-thirds (50 cl) bottles.

So far so good. As with all of these things, moderation and balance seem to be the winning way.

[LilaG49512]

I have been on Atkins for over a year now and have lost 90lbs. I must say that misconception is the biggest hurdle in the understanding of this diet. I now eat more vegetables than I ever have in my life. I just chose to eat low carb veggies rather than potatoes and other high starch veggies. I eat fruit. I just don't eat bananas and other high glycemic fruits.

As for boredom. There are many bulletin boards that have many low carb recipes. When I get bored I go to one and find a new recipe. One of my favorites now is a chicken recipe I found on one of them. I have found a wonderful low carb cheesecake recipe also.

I used to use the Atkin's shakes and others and the low carb bars, but found myself bored with them.

[fendel]

What an interesting thread. (I just discovered this place a couple of days ago. Hi.)

I've been back on a low-carb diet for about two months--14 pounds down, and I'm not exactly being strict about it. I think low-carb diets like Atkins are, as diets go, unusually compatible with decent eating.

For dinner I might have a big grilled steak with a salad and vegetable, or a chicken dish, pork chops, fish... I add an ear of fresh corn now and then, or a couple of slices of pretty-good "lite" bread made into bruschetta with olive oil and homegrown tomatoes and basil. Dessert is rich homemade sugarless ice cream. Lots of veggies, more than I ate before the diet. Occasionally I have a little potato. Eventually when I've lost most of the weight I'll probably have a little pasta carbonara now and then, or deep-dish pizza once a month.

Low-fat, on the other hand, is misery. Fat is flavor. If low-fat were truly healthy and the only way to lose weight, I would resign myself to my current weight. I'd rather be fat than eat low-fat food.

foodie52 wrote:

One couple whose progress I have been casually following load up on the above. They've even taught a class on the low carb lifestyle. . . . Both are overweight. Neither appears to have lost very many pounds.

Either they're overdoing it on the low-carb "legal treats" or, like me, their love of food gets the better of them. Nights when I have lite-bread bruschetta AND the ear of corn AND homemade ice cream, I know I'm not doing myself any favors, weightwise. My weight loss is slow and goes in fits and starts. My friends who stick to the diet religiously are losing more and faster...

But I am losing. Gradually.

Is it healthy? I have a good friend who has lost 40 pounds in the past year on this diet. She's diabetic, and she barely needs insulin shots anymore. Her cholesterol has improved, her HDL is up around 65, triglycerides have plummeted, and her kidney function has improved. Her nephrologist, pragmatically, says "Keep doing what you're doing, because it's working." By every measurable indicator of health, she's getting healthier on this diet of meat, cheese, eggs, and veggies.

Last time I was on the diet, I had my cholesterol tested, and it was spectacularly good.

I know that my blood sugar is more stable when I stick to low-carb. My mood is better--no afternoon fatigue and irritability. I feel better all around. I can now walk past the boxes of doughnuts people bring to work; six months ago, eating one would send me on a three-week doughnut bender and all I could think about would be getting my next fix.

I do miss scalloped potatoes and Pizzeria Uno and pasta carbonara and restaurant desserts and tall glasses of milk (I now have tiny glasses of half-and-half), and the no-planning-required ability to drop into a good ice cream parlor and have something that makes me temporarily giddy. But I will have small quantities of these things, or acceptable replacements. Lite bread can be good. Low-carb pasta, alas, is like rubber bands. Sugar-free chocolate varies. There's a brand called Elite from Israel that makes a SF milk chocolate that's a dead ringer for Lindt bars. Works for me.

[ronnie_suburban]

Ok, I love the direction this thread has taken and I also love hearing from other 'Atkinsians' about their routines. I agree with a lot of what's been said here about moderation and balanced eating plans. Moreover, anyone who's been on Atkins for any length of time knows that rules are meant to be, well...bent at the very least

But this discussion has led me to some critical questions about Atkins...can one truly enjoy all the physiological benefits of Atkins if not in Benign Dietary Ketosis?

I understand the dangers of nutritionally devoid carbohydrates and I completely accept that eating less of them is good for me. I also mentioned upthread that I feel significantly better (physically) when I'm on Atkins. But, does one lose weight if repeatedly going on and off the plan? Would I have lowered my cholesterol by 70+ points if I had not experienced an extended period in BDK? Is there any significant value to, say...doing Atkins during the week and going off over the weekends?

Atkins himself advised that 'induction' should be 2 weeks long. Experience tells me that I can get into BDK in 48-72 hours. It all leads me to wonder if anyone here could shed some additional light on their results when following Atkins in a personally modified way. I suppose that signifcant results are relative and depend one's specific condition, etc. Still, I'm just hunting for as much info as I can find from experienced folks.

Thanks everyone

=R=

[Stone]

Dessert is rich homemade sugarless ice cream.

Recipe please?

Experience tells me that I can get into BDK in 48-72 hours.

How do you know you're in BDK? Just rapid weight loss?

Can I ask this again -- What do people snack on, especially when in "induction." Other than hard-boiled eggs? I'm not going to sit at my desk and nibble on tuna steaks. Any commercial beef jerky has sugar in it. Can't eat more than a few mouthfuls of salad. What to do?

Edited August 28, 2003 by Stone (log)

[fendel]

I skipped induction each time I've been on the diet.

I have rarely been in ketosis. I have no objection to it; I just haven't pushed myself hard enough to lower the carbs that far.

The first time I did the diet, I lost about 25 pounds. Regained some, got back on track, fell off the wagon again, regained it all, but this time I intend to stick to it... in my not-very-strict way. Fourteen pounds down so far. I have a long way to go, another 30 or 40. I think I've finally accepted that I can't just go scarfing doughnuts again someday. This time I'm staying on the low-carb "bus"... with occasional sticking of head and arms out the window.

I hit a plateau a couple weeks ago, and happened to be going on vacation for a long weekend. I hadn't intended to go hog wild, but I did have a few carby dishes--some pizza, a good chocolate dessert, and by the time I was returning, I watched myself skulk into an airport kiosk to buy a pack of Reese's. Hmm, that felt familiar. But once home, I got back on track, lost the couple pounds I gained on the trip, and kept going. Now I'm below the plateau level.

So next time I hit a plateau, I might take the opportunity to have a few of the dishes I miss, and then get back on track. I'm still experimenting, I guess, to see what works for me.

[ronnie_suburban]

Experience tells me that I can get into BDK in 48-72 hours.

How do you know you're in BDK? Just rapid weight loss?

I use ketostix to monitor it. The only brand I've ever seen are made by Bayer, but I'm sure there are others. You can get them at just about any pharmacy.

Snacks...as you mentioned, some beef sticks/jerkies do have sugar(s) but once you're out of induction I've found that the simple consumption of (small amounts of) sugar isn't necessarily detrimental as long as you remain strict on your limit of total net carbs.

Here in Chicago, Best Kosher makes a tasty salami stick. Yes, they do contain some (sugar) carbs but I can still eat a generous serving of them for less than 5 carbs. Slim Jims...I don't like them, but a friend of mine ate them all the time while on Atkins. Also, remember that cheese key. One thing I used to do was take a 1-2 oz portion of decent parmesan and/or romano cheese, grate it, stick it under broiler and make a cheese crisp. Hell, you could even add bacon bits...Pecans and macadamias are also good snacks because their net carb counts are low.

What few Atkins snack products I've tried have been hit or miss. The best of them IMO is the Advantage Bar (peanut butter variety) which is actually good in its own right. Another friend of mine loves the Russell Stover line of low-carb confections, but I haven't had a chance to try them yet.

=R=

[fendel]

Recipe please?

Hmm. I'm new here, I don't know if recipes are supposed to be posted in a different forum or what... here is a link instead:

The Low-Carb Ice Cream Project

This is my blog. It's a work in progress. Mostly notes to myself as I tinker with recipes. I've started putting the better recipes in a shaded box so they're easier to find. So far I've got vanilla and coffee down pretty much; pistachio needs a little more tinkering.

Read from the bottom for explanations and to watch the recipes evolve... or just grab the better ones off the top. There are a few obscure ingredients involved, but I've tried to include notes explaining why and where to get them.

[ronnie_suburban]

The Low-Carb Ice Cream Project

Wow! Thanks for sharing fendel...very nice of you.

=R=

[fendel]

Snacks, I almost forgot.

Nuts (lately it's been "Deluxe Mixed Nuts" because if I get the kind with peanuts, everything tastes like peanuts).

Cheese.

Sugar-free chocolate. Carbolite makes a new "At Last" line that Walgreens stocks in the diabetic aisle. It's not perfect but the Chocolate Truffle flavor is pretty good with a handful of salted almonds.

Low-carb crackers until I realized I couldn't control myself. A friend introduced me to these "protein chips" that are 1 gram of carb per 3 wheat-thins-sized crackers. Within days I was eating them out of the box in a feeding frenzy, so I stopped buying those.

Gum if I just want something sweet sometimes. Carefree Koolerz come in watermelon, lemonade, citrus, berry, and mint flavors, and the stuff is sugar-free but chews like Bubble Yum.

[Paul de Gruchy]

I get the feeling a lot of the posts here are from the US. Here in the UK, Atkins is big news but there's a similar diet put forward by a guy called Clarke, who is an insulin expert. His approach is much more scientific and makes more sense to me than Atkins. For a start, he's keen on fruit. Also, he says that wine is no problem. I think Atkin's objections to alcohol are largely puritan as the carb level isn't high.

Anyway, I found that on all these diets keeping regular was a problem and my family has a history of colon cancer so I wanted to have a high fibre diet and no matter how much salad or cabbage you eat, it doesn't have the same effect as a bowl of high-fibre cereal or a plate of beans. I then read Montignac's "Eat Yourself Slimmer", which also made sense to me. He said that the basic problems were bad carbs and combining carbs and fat.

So now, I eat a very high fibe cereal with skimmed milk for breakfast. Then for lunch (or four hours later) I have cheese or meats or smoked fish (not that popular in the office but who cares) with some tomatoes or high fibre crispbread, a few olives, a handful of nuts. Then for supper, whatever I want as long as it doesn't have potatoes, rice, pasta etc. Tonight I had a large plate of salad with pine nuts and home made duck confit - last night shoulder of lamb with ratatouille. I'll have a half bottle of red wine most nights and as I'm no longer trying to lose weight I'll have a couple of squares of chocolate to satisfy the sweet craving.

But the real trick from Montignac is to look at food as being a series of choices: you can have a slice of white bread or a bottle of red wine. You can cheat but just be sensible about it.

I've lost about 10 lbs over the last 3 months eating like this and my weight is now stable at my ideal level. I feel good and the best thing you can say is that you don't eat processed food, which must be healthy. I agree with the poster earlier on this thread that doubted any diet that banned fruit but encouraged supplements.

[jackal10]

I've lost about 20 lbs, averaging about 8oz/day (although in fits and starts) on a not very strict Atkins diet. I refuse to give up milk in coffee, fresh fruit or wine. More energy (at least in the mornings), and I'm told I've stopped snoring..

I abhor any of the "Atkins" products, like bread or low-carb flour. They are artificial and disgusting.

I do miss new potatoes, and decent sourdough bread, even though I grow and cook them for others...

However one can still eat very well, and I'm rediscovering all sorts of good things, like quenelles, and flourless souffles.

Yesterday was roast chicken, courgettes, tomatoes. Today was a meal soup from the remains, with marinted tofu, leeks, and cabbage, toulouse sausage...