The Atkins Diet Topic

[mags]

ATKINS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

HOW CAN SOMEONE POSSIBLY MAINTAIN A LOW-CARB LIFESTYLE FOR THEIR ENTIRE LIVES? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE AND UNREALISTIC AS WELL AS UNHEALTHY. IN ATKINS, WHERE DOES CALCIUM, FIBER, AND NATURAL FRUIT COME IN? NO ONE CAN TELL ME THAT WHOLE WHEAT BREAD, MILK, OR APPLES MAKE A PERSON FAT. GIVE ME A BREAK. IT'S ALL ABOUT CALORIES AND BALANCE; MODERATION IS KEY.

Brenna, a couple of things. First, since you've told us in the past that your favorite foods include Pepperidge Farm Goldfish, various kinds of cookies, and something called "funfetti" cake -- and that you hate all cheese, shrimp, and eggs -- I can certainly understand that a low-carb diet wouldn't appeal to you. But don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone else necessarily shares your tastes.

Second, since you clearly don't know anything about low-carb eating, I'm curious as to what kind of knowledge-base you're relying on to make your pronouncements that low-carbing is unhealthy (despite your claim, in an earlier post, that "it's ok to overload on protein, though!") Are you a nutritionist or an endocrinologist as well as a college freshman? Having had an eating disorder, by the way, doesn't qualify you as any kind of expert on other people's eating habits; it just gives you some hard-earned knowledge about your own.

Finally, I'm sick to death of adults telling me how I should eat, as though their sense of what works for them will necessarily be true for me. I'll be damned if I'm going to take that kind of ignorant arrogance from a 19-year-old who apparently regards pizza as one of the "essential food groups."

[ExtraMSG]

Here's a link to the menu of a low-carb restaurant that recently opened up here in Portland:

http://www.unclebutchys.com/dinnermenu.htm

Sounds tasty and balanced to me.

[chow guy]

Really? I was a vegetarian for several years, and a "semi-vegetarian" -- meaning I based most of my meals around starch (rice, pasta), with veg and protein on top -- for most of my adult life. And what happened was that I got fat, my blood work was a disaster, and my menstrual cycle was wildly irregular -- not a good sign for a woman (though, I guess, rather a worse sign for a man  )

On a low-carb regime, and without any medication, I have lowered my cholesterol and triglycerides, lost weight, and stabilized my menstrual cycle.

Mags,

This sounds exactly like my wife and several of her friends. As for men, Most of my middle aged male friends that are slim, are manic about avoiding carbs.

Which diet would you recommend? I bought "The Low Carb Bible" for information about such diets but it's like a travel guide without an opinion. I think eating vegetarian on Atkins might be a challenge for my wife. I am an omnivore (capital omni) and I've have been impressed with the Fat Flush Diet because a friend has done so well on it and raves about how easy it is. But there are lots of expensive suppliments and rituals. I am thinking South Beach is more better. Any wisdom? What is your regimen?

[menton1]

More bad news for the Atkins faithful from Reuters Atkins Can Kill You

[ronnie_suburban]

More bad news for the Atkins faithful from Reuters  Atkins Can Kill You

No it can't. That's just total crap...especially when compared to the health risks of being obese.

=R=

[ExtraMSG]

More bad news for the Atkins faithful from Reuters Atkins Can Kill You

I think we've handled these kinds of non-sequitur-laden articles before.

[reesek]

Really? I was a vegetarian for several years, and a "semi-vegetarian" -- meaning I based most of my meals around starch (rice, pasta), with veg and protein on top -- for most of my adult life. And what happened was that I got fat, my blood work was a disaster, and my menstrual cycle was wildly irregular -- not a good sign for a woman (though, I guess, rather a worse sign for a man  )

On a low-carb regime, and without any medication, I have lowered my cholesterol and triglycerides, lost weight, and stabilized my menstrual cycle.

Mags,

This sounds exactly like my wife and several of her friends. As for men, Most of my middle aged male friends that are slim, are manic about avoiding carbs.

Which diet would you recommend? I bought "The Low Carb Bible" for information about such diets but it's like a travel guide without an opinion. I think eating vegetarian on Atkins might be a challenge for my wife. I am an omnivore (capital omni) and I've have been impressed with the Fat Flush Diet because a friend has done so well on it and raves about how easy it is. But there are lots of expensive suppliments and rituals. I am thinking South Beach is more better. Any wisdom? What is your regimen?

i've just finished reading this thread - so great. i'm ...mostly vegetarian and have been on atkins for about 2 weeks. my scale just arrived yesterday so i don't know how much weight i've lost so far, but i'm guessing about 7 pounds.

i do eat fish - lots of it lately...and i'll confess i'm very tired of the fish and salad routine for dinner. induction is kind of hard on vegetarians - if i didn't eat eggs & cheese - i'd be totally unable to do it. that said - in the last 2 weeks i have eaten some sausage and half a strip steak. variety!! (i've been a veggie for about 4 years - initially to lose weight and enhance my creativity in the kitchen) i'm not planning to start eating meat - i didn't even love what we had - it felt chewy after years and years of fish and my stomach felt unpleasantly heavy afterwards.

i'd be very interested in sharing menu ideas (especially creative fun ones - i miss lentils - what about using eggplant to 'stretch' the lentils - can i have some of the flavor and texture without eating 80 carbs?) i'd also be interested in hearing how successful people are (ronnie?) with the 5 days on 2 days off plan...i'm going to london and paris for 3 weeks on saturday...can i be in paris and not eat baguette? maybe - but i don't intend to find out. i've seen anecdotal reports here that atkins responds to a little playing...anyone have any tips?

thanks

[mags]

With regard to the lentils, you'll need to monitor your own carbohydrate levels. Lentils are fairly high in carbs, and it'll depend on your personal chemistry whether you're able to eat them and still lose weight. You might want to look into using soybeans instead -- Eden makes very tasty canned black soybeans, which are very low in carbs, and I've found them an ok substitute for most legumes. I also regularly use frozen soybeans -- edamame -- to substitute for lima beans and peas.

[tryska]

*lmao* at the smackdown a page back.

mags you're dangerous.

[ronnie_suburban]

*lmao* at the smackdown a page back.

mags you're dangerous.

Don't mess with Mags!

=R=

[jschyun]

Eating meat seems to be good for your bones.

http://lowcarbresearch.org/lcr/results.asp?catid=204

http://atkins.com/science/researchsummaries/calcium.html

Hmm, interesting. Thanks for the articles. Hope this is true, because I eat a lot of meat.

But it is completely at odds with what we bio majors were taught in college.

Actually, I read about some vegans who tried the Atkins diet. They lost weight.

[mags]

(Hiding stiletto in boot and blinking innocently)

(Wiggling off into the sunset in a clear demonstration of harmless femininity...only slightly hampered by limp caused by stiletto in boot.)

[redfox]

Just wanted to clear up a possible misunderstanding:

one last word Weight resistance training seems to be the best for insulin resistant types adn the supplement Metformin ,both which are cheap and well woth the effort.

Weight-resistance training is indeed great but yikes! Metformin isn't a supplement, it's a prescription drug. It is a great drug for many people with Type II diabetes (my husband among them) but it's not without its side effects, and I wouldn't advise anyone to take it not under a doctor's supervision. (Is it available over the counter in Canada? It's not in the US.)

[jschyun]

On a low-carb regime, and without any medication, I have lowered my cholesterol and triglycerides, lost weight, and stabilized my menstrual cycle.

Why are you so anxious to prescribe for others? If a vegetarian diet works for you, terrific. It's not what works for me.

I think it's great Atkins is working for you. I think it's sad that you take my questions as a sign that I am prescribing for others. At this moment I have 5 friends on Atkins. I have heard the evidence from them and it works great for some, not all, esp. good for my friend who has type II diabetes. Actually, Atkins is not very different from the diet prescribed to diabetics. I support my friends and am only playing devil's advocate, why the hell do you think I would care about you enough to prescribe your diet?

Also, my best friend noted that until he started taking the special Atkins formula vitamins (a bunch of them) he felt like crap. After he started taking them, he felt much better. Unfortunately, they cost a lot, something like $50 a month. If you've found a cheaper source of Atkins formula vitamins, well, good for you and let us know.

Someone here noted that they eat a lot of vegetables on Atkins. That's great, good for you. I wish that was the case with most of the Atkins dieters I know. Usually dinner is a steak, lunch is meat without the bun, but with lettuce wrapped around it. Breakfast is scrambled eggs with sausages. Hence the need for lots of vitamins. However, they are all losing weight, and I guess that is what counts, esp for someone who is really obese.

By the way, you can be a vegetarian and still be unhealthy. Frankly, a lot of vegetarians I know think they are healthy but don't realize they're eating crap, just not meat centered crap. I'm talking the coke and twinkie veggie, or the pasta and white rice vegetarian. On the other hand, there are the really healthy ones, and they tend to eat better.

[ExtraMSG]

Someone here noted that they eat a lot of vegetables on Atkins. That's great, good for you. I wish that was the case with most of the Atkins dieters I know. Usually dinner is a steak, lunch is meat without the bun, but with lettuce wrapped around it. Breakfast is scrambled eggs with sausages. Hence the need for lots of vitamins. However, they are all losing weight, and I guess that is what counts, esp for someone who is really obese.

That was probably me. I wonder if they were eating any more vegetables before the diet. There really aren't that many vegetables, except starches like potatoes, that are off-limits. And eating fries or mashed potatoes and gravy isn't the same as eating a serving of spinach. That would make it not an issue of Atkin's but an issue of bad choices whether they're on a diet or not. I guess you could say that if they were on a low fat diet, they would probably eat more vegetables. Possible. Maybe just pasta with red sauce. Then would they be getting any calcium, iron, or protein, though? Some people are just bad eaters and bad dieters.

[MArkF]

...As someone who's lost 75+ pounds and kept it off, I am a firm believer is a balanced diet and exercise as the only way to be healthy. I worry about the Atkins diet's ability to keep you healthy, as opposed to just thin....

I agree with Charles....

After looking into Atkins and South Beach diets 2 years ago, I got scared of the term "diet". As one who had never seriously tried to loose weight, I was afraid of the backlash that people who diet can go thru...once you stop the diet, you puton more than you lost....

Downloaded and read the government's food pyramid document and read it. Used it as a guideline. Cut out the whites, exercised, did portion control, and never ate after 7:30P.

Its now 2 years and change later, I've lost 100 lbs and am in the best shape in 20 years (am 50).

I have found that good nutrition practices combined with exercise is the key cause at the end of the day if you burn more calories than you eat......

Mark

[ExtraMSG]

Of course, Mark. But there are lots of ways of going about that. And, btw, what you did is called a diet. Atkins, eg, never suggested that his way of eating should be considered a short-term diet. He called it a "diet for life". The diet is structured so.

Congratulations on the weight loss. I did the same thing about 4 or 5 years ago and lost about 130 lbs total, though over the years I gained about 20 of it back. (Actually pretty quickly, suggesting that I got a little too low, maybe, because I haven't had any trouble maintaining where I am now.)

I used a low-carb diet before I had heard of Atkins or South Beach. A friend had told me about a weight-lifting diet. I wanted to be able to gain muscle while dieting. It was low-carb, but also not high fat. So it was very low calories. Less than 1000 per day most days. I ate a lot of grilled chicken and tuna. And a ton of salads with no more than balsamic as a dressing. I lost most of my weight in a six month period.

I now use more common low-carb style eating to maintain weight or lose a little bit every once in a while, trying, but not too hard, to get back down to my lowest weight.

The science shows that Atkins works better over a year than the type of diet you used, so why suggest that your experience be generalized for everyone? I just don't understand the antipathy people have for low-carb.

[MArkF]

The science shows that Atkins works better over a year than the type of diet you used, so why suggest that your experience be generalized for everyone? I just don't understand the antipathy people have for low-carb.

Sorry...didnt mean to sound like I suggesting that everyone do what I did. People need to do what works for them....I did consult my doctor on a couple of occassions.

I am not anti-carbs but many people take low-carb to such an extreme. I was merely trying to point out that diet balance and exercise are at least as important if not more so than low carbs.

I continue to shy away from the "whites" (white bread, white flour, white rice), but still eat them. I just use portion control with them.

So again, I apologize, meant no harm.

Mark

[jschyun]

That was probably me. I wonder if they were eating any more vegetables before the diet. There really aren't that many vegetables, except starches like potatoes, that are off-limits. And eating fries or mashed potatoes and gravy isn't the same as eating a serving of spinach. That would make it not an issue of Atkin's but an issue of bad choices whether they're on a diet or not. I guess you could say that if they were on a low fat diet, they would probably eat more vegetables. Possible. Maybe just pasta with red sauce. Then would they be getting any calcium, iron, or protein, though? Some people are just bad eaters and bad dieters.

Yeah, I don't think they were eating more veggies before Atkins. If anything, they eat more, because of the lettuce wrapped around the burger. (Sad I know)

My concern was that Atkins makes it a little too easy for those people to just eat meat and butter all day. I know you said you didn't eat like that, but trust me, I know people who do. I will acknowledge it's possible I just know a lot of fatties, because of my predilection for hanging out with people who like food... I have to sit in awe as I saw a seatmate down 3 egg omelet, 2 steaks, but doesn't eat any of the mixed veggies.

I love meat; this is not an indictment of meat. However, I worry about the fact that this is all my buds seem to eat. Another friend will push around a salad in a restaurant due to carbs, but will eat several steaks or pork chops in a row. After reading Atkins' book, I knew most salads are okay, yet the people I know uses carbs as an excuse not to eat salad or veggies at all. I have to say, your version of the diet makes much more sense. It seems much more well rounded, and I really appreciate you explaining what you did. However, their version is just as "legal" as yours, possibly more so because they eat practically no carbs. I will say everyone I know has lost weight, even with just eating pounds of meat all the time.

I wonder how many people follow your example, esp. if eating steak all day drops the pounds as easily? In fact, you say low-carb is not a high fat diet (or someone did) but it can very easily be a high fat diet. I wish more people I knew followed your example. I do not believe that most people on the Atkins diet are eating as well as you are.

My best friend has lost 75 pounds, just eating steak, eggs, bacon, all that good stuff. Also, he is a diabetic, or I should say was. With the Atkins diet, he has basically thrown away all his diabetes drugs, and now only uses a supplement. After some initial doubt, I really believe in Atkins or related diets to keep diabetes under control. I just wish that the diet, as my friends interpret it, was a little more like your version of the diet.

[Ladybug]

I'm concerned about the Atkins diet. My husband has been on and off it in the last year or so. He lost 20-25 lbs but has gained it back since then. His cholesterol pre-Atkins was 219 and now it's 274. The doctors didn't get too alarmed about 219 and even said, "Oh, now we don't worry unless your cholesterol is at least 230." (This sounded really ignorant to me.) But now, everyone is ALARMED! (BTW, this was a fasting cholesterol check.) He's having to do a 3-day blood pressure check now and afterwards has to discuss his results with the doctor and probably will get put on meds. His BP yesterday was 130/79.

One of our friends went on the Atkins diet for maybe 6 months and lost 45 lbs. Her cholesterol went up 50 points - she knows the pre-and post- numbers and they were taken almost immediately before and then during the diet. She quit the diet immediately.

So, what's happening here? I read the Atkins diet book and it says these numbers should IMPROVE. Are there some people this doesn't work for? I've heard other people say their numbers have gotten better. What's going on?

[mags]

I think that with Atkins, as with most other things, it's a case of YMMV. Many people -- including me -- have seen their cholesterol numbers improve and have seen other health benefits; others may not have the same experience.

With reference to the veggies, I suspect that intake of veggies on Atkins may be closely correlated to the amount one is willing to cook. It's relatively easy to pick up protein outside the house -- grab a burger without the bun, eggs and bacon at a diner, a steak at your local joint, whatever -- but getting the kinds of veggies that can really stand in for a starch really demands that you cook them yourself. A lot of restaurants in this country tend to treat vegetables as the forgettable splodge on the plate, and finding cauliflower puree, or zucchini-tomato hash or broccoli stewed in garlic and olive oil (three side dishes I rely on) can be very tough. It becomes a lot easier just to eat protein and the occasional salad.

FWIW, I've just found a low-carb product that thrills me: Carb Countdown Milk. I used to be a major milk-drinker, and have really missed it since going low-carb, but a glass of regular milk has about 12 grams of carbohydrate, thanks to all the milk-sugar. The Carb Countdown stuff takes out the lactose and replaces it with sucralose, for a count of just 3 grams per cup. It doesn't taste exactly like regular milk, but it's easily close enough for government work. They make a chocolate version as well, which I haven't tried, though others apparently enjoy it.

[ExtraMSG]

Pretty much every casual restaurant has a big salad, though -- a chef's salad, eg. The chains like Friday's, Applebees, Red Robin, etc, have several of these meal salads which are perfect for the low-carb dieter. Just choose your dressing wisely and avoid the croutons. Even places like McDonald's and Wendy's have salads that aren't much worse than their hamburgers, relatively speaking.

btw, I've never had a problem at a restaurant getting a substitute of steamed veggies or spinach for a starch.

The veggies I rely on most besides salad greens are cabbage, cauliflower, and bell peppers. I really don't miss noodles or rice when I'm serving a steak on a bed of sauteed onions and bell peppers or stir-fried cabbage, or roasted cauliflower. I don't feel like any of these are fillers, but tasty in their own right. I rarely feel that way with pasta and rice. They're only good for holding fats.

(In fact, one of my responses when people start talking about high-carb, low-fat dieting is: who wants that? How good are starches without fat? Potatoes only become good when fried, topped with butter, mixed with cream, or drenched in gravy. Same with rice. Pasta is good with a tomato based sauce but other than that it's mostly a matter of giving it fat. However, a piece of chicken, fish, steak, pork, etc, is good without any carbs. Even the sauces for meats, such as reductions and pan sauces are usually reduced wines or stocks with a fat. No carbs to speak of.)