Bernard Loiseau - Merged topics

[jaybee]

Loiseau won three stars with his new approach to cooking a number of years ago. His concept of "water cooking" seemed quite revolutionary at the time. I haven't heard much about it since. Has it has an impact beyond La Cote d'Or? Has anyone eaten there recently? I'm curious to know if his ideas and his cooking have held up.

[Steve Plotnicki]

I hear they are having a drought at La Cote d'Or these days.

[jaybee]

Seriously? Have you eaten there in the last few years?

[Steve Plotnicki]

No I haven't. But I heard they weren't flooded with reservations.

[cabrales]

jaybee -- Please see the thread below, which discusses the "cuisine a l'eau":

http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...6051&hl=loraine

Robert is right that Loiseau may be a better choice because of the "cuisine of water". While I have had satisfying meals there, I wouldn't say that Loiseau's cuisine is particularly wonderful for me. It is a little more rooted in traditional flavors than, for example, Lorain's cuisine.

Here is an excerpt from Loiseau's website, a quote from the LA Times:

"If the culinary world has a King of Water, it would be Bernard Loiseau, chef-patron of the restaurant La Côte d'Or in the tiny Burgundian town of Saulieu. Monsieur Loiseau has coined the term 'La cuisine d'eau' (cuisine of water) to describe his cooking. His goal is food that is free of stocks and cream, base instead on H2O and the natural juices of meats and vegetables. I worked as an apprentice in Loiseau's restaurant. I saw creams and stocks being used there, though on a very limited basis, but Loiseau used water extensively for many purposes, chiefly for consistency."

http://www.atkaliope.com/loiseau/pressBL.html

The chicken Alexandre Dumaine of Loiseau referred to in an earlier post is depicted here:

http://www.bernard-loiseau.com/uk/indexsommaire.htm

(Pick, from the top left hand side, "The Restaurants" -- then pick "The chicken Alexandre Dumaine" -- this is quite intense tasting)

On business levels, I have only eaten at Loiseau once since 9/11, and that was during a holiday period. It is difficult to gauge how busy the restaurant is because there are a number of dining rooms that can be utilized (not including, even, the breakfast room aka A Dumaine room). During 2Q 2001 (pre-9/11), the "main" dining room was full for the dinner and lunch I took in there. During 4Q 2001 (lunch on December 24 or 23), there were very few people. I have not been back since.

Note Loiseau's restaurant is owned by a publicly traded company. One could presumably pursue disclosed information, if one were so inclined.

[Steve Plotnicki]

And I heard he's drowning in debt.

[hollywood]

You're all wet.

[Steve Plotnicki]

No it's the food that's all wet from that water based cuisine.

[Bux]

We ate at Loiseau's Cote d'Or too long ago to offer reliable advice. I think it was in 95. He had full control of his sensibilities and techniques at the time. The meal was excellent. I don't recall if this was just before or after he got his third star. In any event, the third star did not seem unreasonable to me at the time. It was in the middle of winter. As I recall we ran into two snow storms driving up from the Bas Languedoc and there was snow piled high in the town of Saulieu. Thus it was no great surprise to find the dining room far from full. We had a tour of the recently renovated and considerably enlarged premises. In addition to new large dining rooms, there were new and more expensive guest suites. I should imagine that he was in heavy debt to banks for those renovations. I have no idea of the terms of his loans, but I suspect they were based on a long term payback. He would not be the only inn keeper to suffer from the cost of over estimating the potential return from renovations as well as the ability of the market to sustain itself.

Years ago, Veyrat threatened to quit his place altogether if his creditors didn't make it easier for him. Amat lost his own restaurant to backers, apparently as a result of not getting back his second star. That was most unfortunate as I've run across many who felt he deserved two stars and haven't run into anyone who was disappointed in the food there. I would have liked to return there a third time. I'd like to eat at Loiseau again based on my previous meal there.

[jaybee]

No it's the food that's all wet from that water based cuisine.

Tommy, Plots is making a pale imitation of you.

[hollywood]

No it's the food that's all wet from that water based cuisine.

Tommy, Plots is making a pale imitation of you.

Not a pale imitation, merely watered down.

[jaybee]

drip. drip.

[magnolia]

Until now, I had no knowledge of cuisine à l'eau but I ate chez Loiseau about this time last year. It was outstanding in so many ways (including the cost, but that was down to the wine). I posted my experience on this board but I've no idea how to find the thread. At that time it wasn't difficult to make a reservation - we made one with only a few days' notice - but there were no empty tables. I would go back in a second if I had the opportunity.

[guru]

I worked there for three months in 96. I can say that the only days we were really full where on fryday and saturday nights. Otherwise we would make as much as 10 on weekdays lunch. I still have contact with the chef de cuisine sometimes and i understand that things haven't change. After all Saulieu is a three street village that you really pass through only if you have business in that area. You don't just end up there by accident. At the time it was no secret that he had several millions of francs in debts but he(he's a big mouth) explaned to me that all operations where done under La Societe de La Cote d'Or(book selling,tv appearances etc.) and that all the money his wife and him got served to pay the debdts.His wife was a book author that publised several books for the food industry that are still sold to students in cooking school. They still cash money for that.Loiseau also has 3 restaurants in Paris. Guess where the extra money goes. So Saulieu migth not make tons of money but he has a lot of other things helping him on the side.

[Bux]

The old Hotel de la Cote d'Or first achieved fame and fortune when it was a convenient stopping point on the drive from Paris to Nice. Of course it wouldn't have become a three star restaurant if it were not for Alexandre Dumaine and his exceptional food, but it's also unlikely a chef of that talent would have stayed in a three street town if it wasn't so well conveninetly located to traffic. When faster cars eliminated the need for a stop and the autoroute left Saulieu off the main route from Paris to the south, there was little reason for anyone to stop there, except for the food, which was up and down, but never three star after Dumanine passed away, until Loiseau brought it back. When Loiseau got his third star, it was the first time that an inn that had fallen from three star grace, regained that rank.

The problem was that the town was on the way to nowhere and had nothing in the way of resort facilities. It's not even a particularly charming place, although there is a church with incredible romanesque capitals. It was too far to drive from Paris for just lunch or dinner, but close enough for a romantic weekend with great food. It's also convenient enough to the rest of Burgundy to serve as a base for sightseeing or business. It was Loiseau's dream to remake the inn as a destination spot. To that end he sunk lots of borrowed money into building not only a larger dining quarters, but a new wing of luxurious suites and rooms.

Some years back he still had a group of very inexpensive rooms that were not part of the Relais & Chateaux, but still under the same roof. The rooms were small and reminiscent of a monk's cell and the WC's were flushed with an electric pump, but they were clean and otherwise pleasant. I wonder if they are still available. With such a focus on being a weekend retreat perhaps it's understandable that traffic is light in the middle of the week. Looking at the R&C web page for Loiseau, I see there's a very significant difference in price for the rooms on the weekend and on weekdays. For the traveler passing through Burgundy, there's a good savings in planning on stopping here in the middle of the week.

[Bouland]

Some years back he still had a group of very inexpensive rooms that were not part of the Relais & Chateaux, but still under the same roof. The rooms were small and reminiscent of a monk's cell and the WC's were flushed with an electric pump, but they were clean and otherwise pleasant. I wonder if they are still available.

When I stayed there a few years back, the cheap, unadvertised rooms were quite nice, but only about half the price of the cheapest one listed in Relais & Chateaux. I have generally found that if I contact a R&C hotel directly, I can get a cheaper room than through the system.

[PaulaJK]

We both stayed and dined at Loiseau's about 2 years ago.

I did not consider it worth the detour. Once checked in, my desire

to walk around the 'grounds' found me on a narrow sidewalk,

cars whizzing precariously close...and no interesting sights,

boutiques,etc. The room itself was large, nicely appointed and

with a large modern bath...but forgettable.

Cocktails/aperitifs were taken in an ante chamber which I

think I recall as having a fireplace. The diningroom and its staff

were 'fine' but nothing memorable...same for the meal. His prices

were very high. There was nothing that would make me wish to

return, even if in the neighborhood.....but it certainly was quite

acceptable. I had expected more.

Did I read recently that he spends more time in Paris?

[cabrales]

Loiseau is among the chefs described in Anne Willan's article "On Burgundian Tables", which is included in Best Food Writing 2000 (ed. Holly Huges, Alice Waters):

"For several years he banished butter, cream, and egg yolks from the kitchen. Well before the current phobia of animal fats, Loiseau was using nonstick pans and a minimum of oil. He abaoned the use of stock, regarded as the basis of much French cuisine ... and turned to water for extracting fresher, purer essences of taste. He thickened sauces wih vegetable purees, for example, replacing the usual garlic butter on frogs' legs with a jus of parsley [in a signature dish; note that parsley, garlic and butter are normal accompaniments for frogs' legs in France]. Lentils give body to mussel soup, testament to waht can be done without a roux. . . .

Edited January 20, 2003 by cabrales (log)

[jakubc]

I tried Anne's recipe for the lentils with mussels two weeks ago. It was interesting and certainly was not bad, although I think that the idea of limiting things to water is a little artificial. I can imagine how the same dish made with a rich mussel broth would be better.

[menton1]

It seems that chef Bernard has just appaently committed suicide, per Reuters. This comes coincidentally with the Gault Millau demotion from 19 to 17. Quel dommage!!!

[Bux]

There was a thread here on the announcement of his death. It's been merged with one in Food Media and News as the apparent suicide of a three star chef is international news.

Bernard Loiseau R.I.P.

[Rex]

I just heard of Bernard L'Oiseau death... suicide...

[Varmint]

Thanks, Rex. If you scroll down a page or two, you'll see that we have a few threads discussing the unfortunate passing of Monsieur L'Oiseau.

[Craig Camp]

Doing Loiseau for Loiseau: Tribute Dinner Held for Three-Star French Chef

[robert brown]

What I have admired most in this whole drama is the candor of Dominique Loiseau. I met her one time about ten years ago and she impressed me with both her looks and intelligence. I suspect, however, that what is most being left unspoken is that Loiseau realized he didn't have the place in the culinary fermament he quite wanted, which was not be just a three-star chef, but one of the ones on the food-lovers radar screen. Those would be Michel Bras, Mark Veyrat, Pierre Gagnaire and Alain Passard, among others. I think even Olivier Roellinger at two stars was getting more attention. There is a hint, in the remark that he didn't like the direction that food was going in, that Ferran Adria and his influence upset him as well. It is more complicated than that. Apparently he overreached to satisfy an insatiable ego when there are many three-star chefs who are happy to hold the hand that fate has dealt them.