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Ducasse to open at the Dorchester

ameiden

By ameiden
in United Kingdom & Ireland: Dining

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MobyP

MobyP

Posted
Posted

I think the criticism is aimed more towards the corporate (meaning focused at the Ducasse institute in Paris) nature of menu creation and execution, rather than tired Bocuse-old accusation of hands on cooking. The albufera sauce made here will use exactly the same ingredients, sourced form the same location, in the same proportions as the Albufera sauce in Athenee, and probably within a few microns of the sauce that D learned under Chapel - it will be the (albeit extremely high) lowest common denominator of sauce creations that a corporation spread as wide as Ducasse can pull of with the staff available to it. The point is, it's still down to the individual to be exceptional. Piege and Cerutti could bring a vibrancy to this kind of thing that an untested chef can't. He's not talking about the general and by now accepted nature of brigade management.

"Gimme a pig's foot, and a bottle of beer..." Bessie Smith

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Zoticus

Zoticus

Posted
Posted
I think the criticism is aimed more towards the corporate (meaning focused at the Ducasse institute in Paris) nature of menu creation and execution, rather than tired Bocuse-old accusation of hands on cooking. The albufera sauce made here will use exactly the same ingredients, sourced form the same location, in the same proportions as the Albufera sauce in Athenee, and probably within a few microns of the sauce that D learned under Chapel - it will be the (albeit extremely high) lowest common denominator of sauce creations that a corporation spread as wide as Ducasse can pull of with the staff available to it. The point is, it's still down to the individual to be exceptional. Piege and Cerutti could bring a vibrancy to this kind of thing that an untested chef can't. He's not talking about the general and by now accepted nature of brigade management.

I still disagree. You can criticize the food and then attempt to put that criticism down to the corporate nature of it's conception, but not the other way around. Either Ducasse's food is crap, or it's not. If it's not, then the only gripe with centralized planning is that it goes against a romantic notion of how you would like to think that your food is prepared. If it is crap, the corporate approach is only one of several possible explanations.

Zoticus

Zoticus

Posted
Posted
Nobu is a chain restaurant and the food is lovely.

so is pizzaexpress, neither have pretentions towards 3* though do they? :smile:

If Ducasse does get starred then presumably it will be for his food etc., not for how organizes his restaurants. If he does get starred and you then claim that this is unjust, then I don't see how you can use Michelin to support your arguments since you clearly don't have much faith in Michelin.

Gary Marshall

Gary Marshall

Posted
Posted

i think you're confusing my posts with others, but anyway..

i have more faith in michelin than most guides and i won't claim it is unjust he gets a star- i'm sure it will shortly be a 1* standard but whether it ever becomes the 3* in london his fans wanted is another thing.

I think he'll be in the book because everyone knew it was opening and michelin will trust him to run a resto to at least one star standard.

you don't win friends with salad

  • 2 weeks later...
Jamsie

Jamsie

Posted
Posted

I cancelled my reservation the other friday and booked a local restaurant. The local restaurant had a power cut and phoned me 5 minutes before we got there to say they'd have to cancel our reservation.

I think this might of been the Restaurant Gods trying to smite me

*shakes fist sky*

ravelda

ravelda

Posted
Posted
New Review by Marina O'Loughlin on the metro todayClick here

Well done that girl. She gets it.

Really pleased to see Marina's review - now it is time for me to re-visit me thinks! I have to say looking back it was a mistake to go down in the first week - school boy error number one, and on top of that asking for the tasting mentu at lunch time when it was not actually on offer. Still, you live and you learn!

If a man makes a statement and a woman is not around to witness it, is he still wrong?

chrisp

chrisp

Posted
Posted
New Review by Marina O'Loughlin on the metro todayClick here

Well done that girl. She gets it.

Really pleased to see Marina's review - now it is time for me to re-visit me thinks! I have to say looking back it was a mistake to go down in the first week - school boy error number one, and on top of that asking for the tasting mentu at lunch time when it was not actually on offer. Still, you live and you learn!

Hang on - Marina's review is hardly glowing, you had a horrible experience the last time (less than a month ago) and it was horribly expensive. Why on earth do you want to go back so soon?

Cheese and Biscuits
RDB

RDB

Posted
Posted
New Review by Marina O'Loughlin on the metro todayClick here

Well done that girl. She gets it.

Really pleased to see Marina's review - now it is time for me to re-visit me thinks! I have to say looking back it was a mistake to go down in the first week - school boy error number one, and on top of that asking for the tasting mentu at lunch time when it was not actually on offer. Still, you live and you learn!

Hang on - Marina's review is hardly glowing, you had a horrible experience the last time (less than a month ago) and it was horribly expensive. Why on earth do you want to go back so soon?

I thought that . I am interested what has changed your mind Ravelda?

A) It may not be the restaurant but you because you went on the first week and ordered the tasting at lunch?

B) Your converted after Marina's review?

C) You want it to be really good?

D) You are a food masochist? :wink:

ravelda

ravelda

Posted
Posted
New Review by Marina O'Loughlin on the metro todayClick here

Well done that girl. She gets it.

Really pleased to see Marina's review - now it is time for me to re-visit me thinks! I have to say looking back it was a mistake to go down in the first week - school boy error number one, and on top of that asking for the tasting mentu at lunch time when it was not actually on offer. Still, you live and you learn!

Hang on - Marina's review is hardly glowing, you had a horrible experience the last time (less than a month ago) and it was horribly expensive. Why on earth do you want to go back so soon?

I thought that . I am interested what has changed your mind Ravelda?

A) It may not be the restaurant but you because you went on the first week and ordered the tasting at lunch?

B) Your converted after Marina's review?

C) You want it to be really good?

D) You are a food masochist? :wink:

A combination of the above! Actually, I am not going back until the new year anyway - not enough free time at the moment - I'm all booked out! I guess I do want it to be really good, so that is part of the reason, I clearly made school boy errors assuming that having been working in the kitchens for some time prior to the opening that they would be on form from the word go, and yes, I feel Marina has a good palette and so on her recomendation I do want to go again.

Perhaps another reason for going back is that I am in the prverbial with the wife for not taking her, so think of the mileage I could get out of this if we go, I spend a small fortune and it is still well below par! I could use that against her for months!! :raz:

If a man makes a statement and a woman is not around to witness it, is he still wrong?

algy

algy

Posted
Posted

"Because it's not really so much a restaurant as a hugely entertaining theme park for rich people."

what's not to like?

chrisp

chrisp

Posted
Posted
"Because it's not really so much a restaurant as a hugely entertaining theme park for rich people."

what's not to like?

Yes, if I wanted to gawp at posh people I could just have a drink in the bar. It would cost about £15.

Cheese and Biscuits
naebody

naebody

Posted
Posted (edited)
Yes, if I wanted to gawp at posh people I could just have a drink in the bar. It would cost about £15.

Wouldn't that make it less like a theme park than a zoo?

The place doesn't exist so people can come and gawp (that'd be Sketch). It exists so conservative eaters can get aggrandised hotel food at prices that discriminate, sparing the embarrasment of an ugly Boujis-style scene at the door.

I can't think of a less appealing dining prospect in London at the moment.

Edited by naebody (log)
sethd

sethd

Posted
Posted
"Because it's not really so much a restaurant as a hugely entertaining theme park for rich people."

what's not to like?

How fair is it to review a restaurant the first week it opens. What does it prove? Very few restaurants, regardless of chef's reputation, location, country, or style are perfect so soon after opening. Give Ducasse time to fix whatever problems, real or imagined, exist at the dorcester and i am sure it will approach his other fine dining restaurants in Europe. Also, complaining about the price is foolish., Are you expecting, an inexpensive restaurant run by one of this generations greatest chefs, in one of the most famous hotels in London.

chefmatt

chefmatt

Posted
Posted
"Because it's not really so much a restaurant as a hugely entertaining theme park for rich people."

what's not to like?

How fair is it to review a restaurant the first week it opens. What does it prove? Very few restaurants, regardless of chef's reputation, location, country, or style are perfect so soon after opening. Give Ducasse time to fix whatever problems, real or imagined, exist at the dorcester and i am sure it will approach his other fine dining restaurants in Europe. Also, complaining about the price is foolish., Are you expecting, an inexpensive restaurant run by one of this generations greatest chefs, in one of the most famous hotels in London.

Very fair if you are charging top whack. if you are paying full price for a product it is irrelevent whether they have been there one day or 20 years. This is why so many restaurants are offering the first few weeks at half price - everybody's happy, even the critics have to concede that they weren't charged a total bill.

maybe what we should be asking is if it is sensible for people who know as much about the workings of a restaurant as we all do to be dining there in the first week.

Matt Christmas.

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