Dealing with problems at restaurants

[Fat Guy]

Hey FG, no need to call Nina's analogies weak justbecause you don't relate to them.

I do it purely out of love.

[Deacon]

Seven pages??!?? My God, some people here are long-winded. (I include myself, BTW.)

When all the white noise is filtered out, I've gotten only one really good piece of information from this thread: take the hype about Rockenwagner with one more grain of salt than you would have before, if you're ever in a position to eat there. Perhaps ol' Doc Revenue would've said the same thing, if he'd calmed down before posting. But that's the whole purpose of a rant. People rage even at innocent bystanders, if they get angry enough.

I'm interested, for the sake of a comparison, in hearing Dr. Revenue's review of some place that he DOES like.

Of course, that might start another ugly melee. . . .

Strange Days, Morrison Hotel, L.A. Woman -- classic

Weird Scenes Inside the Gold Mine -- why bother?

[bushey]

"Cooking is like love.  It should be entered into with abandon or not at all."

-Harriet Van Horne (who the hell is that?)

Funny, there's a quote I used to have it as part of my screen saver that was atrributed to the Dalai Lama: "Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon." Maybe he's a Harriet Van Horne fan?

Nina, FWIW I believe in magic. And I think that the audience or diner or partner is an integral part of the equation. One needs to be open to the possibilities.

As for dr revenue, well, I think his reaction and letter were way out of proportion to the perceived slight. Would not make my short list for a friend or a dining companion.

[John Whiting]

I'm even surprised that Whiting, who as a recording engineer has sat though through endless flawed takes only to catch that special and "magical" take that comes along on the rare occassion, just can't admit that.

Steve, once again you're making up quotations for the purpose of refuting them. Keep it up and I shall take you to task for declaring that the greatest Italian restaurateur was Chef Boyardee.

[Stone]

I think the music/food/art analogy was deftly and definitvely resolved in the Wilfrid thread. If you can't find the answer in there, you won't find it here.

As for the sex analogy -- I'd just like to go on record as saying that I've never had an off night. Even when no one was around to appreciate it.

FG -- You're my idol, but sometimes you cross the line beyond provocative to provocation.

Nine -- FG does know a thing or two about sex. Here's his painfully explicit how-to manual.

I'll refrain from sticking my two cents in, but if I was going to, I say that I don't think I get from food the same emotional splendor as I get from a good symphony; and I don't think the analogy between conductor and chef is apt. Any group -- be it kitchen staff, symphony, football team or construction crew -- has days when they click together and days when they don't. But I think cooking, while an "art" is less of what we mean by that term than music is. But that's what I would say if I was going to get involved, which I'm not.

[John Whiting]

FG does know a thing or two about sex. Here's his painfully explicit how-to manual.

Steven, that's a great essay, including the following immortal line:

The fat guy's love life is inextricably linked to his love of food. For the fat guy, food and sex are two points on a continuum.

Or, as Shakespeare *really* wrote before an editor got it wrong way around, "If music be the love of food, play on, give me excess of it . . ."

[jaybee]

I can tell by your posts that you know this really but feel duty bound to defend his egotistical pomposity out of some kind of personal loyalty.

Not really. My rant just riffed off of his. Any excuse to play Howard Beale is fne by me. (Network)

I said a long time ago, his was a case of ego bruise cause by either overestimation of Hans' regard for him or misinterpretation of Hans' "disappointed in you reaction" remark. Neither called for a 5 megaton response. But who hasn't blown their cork in an uncalled for moment?

I was once sitting at a light that turned green. The woman behind me tapped my rear bumper with her car. I took this as her way of telling me to get moving, and I flew out of my car, stood looking down at her terrified face and bellowed "what the hell was the purpose of that!" She looked up sheepishly and said, "it was an acident. My foot slipped off the brake." "Oh" said I and walked back to my car feeling silly. Since then I stop for a ten count before popping off.

FG, yes, his response to you was over the top, I agree. You stupid ignorant slut.

Liza--tooshay.

[Jaymes]

We like the people, we felt like very close friends to the chef/owner and his wife.

What I see as a very telling insight into Dr. Dough's personality is illustrated by this initial remark.

Imagine yourself and someone you consider to be a "very close friend." The relationship has gone on for several years ... friendship and laughter, give and take, different situations, all of the aspects of being a friend.

Now, say the friend does something that you consider to be "wrong." The friend disappoints you in some way. Not by running off to the Bahamas with your spouse or embezzling you out of your life's savings, but something hurtful and thoughtless, something inconsiderate of you and your feelings

Would you, after one incident, trash your friend to a professional colleague of theirs, as in "We dined at a very good restaurant tonight. I mentioned the situation at Rockenwagner to the manager of this restaurant who used to work at several good restaurants--she could not believe the reaction from Hans."? (I remind you here that every professional seeks recognition, admiration and respect from their peers. These are people they must associate with, collaborate with, socialize with, see at trade shows, charity events, celebrity demonstrations, book signings, etc. To badmouth Hans to his professional peers is unforgiveable. Further, it gives the lie to the theory that Dr. Revenue simply blew up briefly, losing his temper temporarily as we all do occasionally. This man was pissed and out for blood.)

Would you refer to your friend as, "...the stupid owner [who] became defensive and obnoxious..."?

Or, "...stupid people who defend people like Hans Rockenwagner..."?

Or would you perhaps reserve judgment until you could speak with that friend personally to be sure you have your story straight before publicly trashing him.

Or maybe even give him the benefit of the doubt because that's what friends do for one another and because that's what you would hope for from him, should the situation be reversed.

I suspect that unless you have an ego the size of Dallas, you'd choose the latter.

[Deacon]

Ok, you know what's a good analogy?  Sex.  You can have sex with the same person, day in day out, year after year . . .

That's why some people prefer the James Beard House.

[Ron Johnson]

I think we have drifted a little far afield of the original post. Let me get this straight. This ultra-rich dude is friends with the Rockenwagners. He helps them open their restaurant. He eats dinner there several times with Mrs. Rockenwagner. In less than 8 months he drops over $4,000.00 there on meals. He has ONE BAD APPETIZER and gets up from his meal and walks out not staying for entrees or desserts and leaving his wine even though the restaurant comps the whole meal. Then when the owner does not grovel for forgiveness after learning of this customer's infantile and inappropriate outburst, the customer sends a letter calling the chef, the restaurant, the staff, and the food disgusting among other numerous insults and derogatory remarks. Is that pretty much it?

Why are we arguing about magic, music, or anything else? This guy walked out of a restaurant that is owned by his friends and in which he has spent a ton of money for ONE BAD APPETIZER. Get a fucking grip dude. I think you are lucky that Hans didn't pummel the shit out of you with the giant asparagus spear/phallic symbol he is clutching in the photo.

[Stone]

I think we have drifted a little far afield of the original post.  Let me get this straight.  This ultra-rich dude is friends with the Rockenwagners.  He helps them open their restaurant.  He eats dinner there several times with Mrs. Rockenwagner.  In less than 8 months he drops over $4,000.00 there on meals.  He has ONE BAD APPETIZER and gets up from his meal and walks out not staying for entrees or desserts and leaving his wine even though the restaurant comps the whole meal.  Then when the owner does not grovel for forgiveness after learning of this customer's infantile and inappropriate outburst, the customer sends a letter calling the chef, the restaurant, the staff, and the food disgusting among other numerous insults and derogatory remarks.  Is that pretty much it?

Why are we arguing about magic, music, or anything else?  This guy walked out of a restaurant that is owned by his friends and in which he has spent a ton of money for ONE BAD APPETIZER.  Get a fucking grip dude. I think you are lucky that Hans didn't pummel the shit out of you with the giant asparagus spear/phallic symbol he is clutching in the photo.

Ron, you forget: Dr. $$$ is a golden nugget.

[Oreganought]

I think we have drifted a little far afield of the original post.  Let me get this straight.  This ultra-rich dude is friends with the Rockenwagners.  He helps them open their restaurant.  He eats dinner there several times with Mrs. Rockenwagner.  In less than 8 months he drops over $4,000.00 there on meals.  He has ONE BAD APPETIZER and gets up from his meal and walks out not staying for entrees or desserts and leaving his wine even though the restaurant comps the whole meal.  Then when the owner does not grovel for forgiveness after learning of this customer's infantile and inappropriate outburst, the customer sends a letter calling the chef, the restaurant, the staff, and the food disgusting among other numerous insults and derogatory remarks.  Is that pretty much it?

Why are we arguing about magic, music, or anything else?  This guy walked out of a restaurant that is owned by his friends and in which he has spent a ton of money for ONE BAD APPETIZER.  Get a fucking grip dude. I think you are lucky that Hans didn't pummel the shit out of you with the giant asparagus spear/phallic symbol he is clutching in the photo.

Ron, you forget: Dr. $$$ is a golden nugget.

It's possible Hans is stupid like a fox.

[Bux]

But where greatness comes in isn't in the ordinary situation, it's in the small things like the adjustments when things are a bit unusual. What do we do when the veggies are a bit watery? Or who recognizes that today's batch of morels are top quality and then constructs a special of the day around them. Or who decides if today's batch of diver scallops would be better sauteed, seviched, broiled. etc. Or who takes a look at a strip of sirloins and decides to pan sautee or grille based on how marbled they are? Those are the tough decisions, not whether someone can follow the recipe and correctly add 3 trunes of fresh black pepper.

These decisions are often made by the third in command. Do you assume a professional cuisinier would back up your assumptions of Plotnickian kitchen? All analogies suck. Comparing an orchestra conductor to a restaurant chef is a particularly ill conceived idea, but a conductor's role is limited. Only on the rarest of occasions will he have also written the music that's played.

[Fat Guy]

Bux, I am disappointed in your reaction.

[John Whiting]

Steven, that's brilliant! Now, if you were a German . . .

[Kerouac1964]

I am a very loyal friend and customer to a pair of chef's here in Las Vegas. I have known them for years both here and in another state where they worked. They consider me a friend...and when in the restaurant...as they call loyal customers...friend of the house.

Southern Girl --

Would it be appropriate for you to name these two chefs and their establishments? I for one, would love to put them in my Restaurant log as places to visit.

To all:

When I first saw that chef's picture I couldn't help thinking - "so there's the problem. He's a German Leprechan and he's having a tough time with his vegetable cooking."

Mike

[Jaymes]

When I first saw that chef's picture I couldn't help thinking - "so there's the problem.  He's a German Leprechan and he's having a tough time with his vegetables."  

That's why I love it here.... We're just all so darn funny!

[southern girl]

I would be more than happy to name them Kerouac1964...Michael and Wendy Jordan of Rosemary's Restaurant...their first restaurant is located about 10 miles from the Strip on W. Sahara Ave. Their second will be opening Sept. 2nd in the Rio Hotel (just a couple of blocks off the Strip on Flamingo Rd. W). They will be in the spot formerly occupied by Jean Louis Palladin's Napa.

If you decide to give them a try, let me know and I will give them a call for you. You can also check out their website at:

www.rosemarysrestaurant.com

I don't know if you are in NYC...if so, they will be cooking at the Beard House on Oct.7.

[mynamejoe]

correct link to Rosemary's restaurant: clickkkk

Here's the thing. If you think that you have touched upon a moment of magic between you and the chef when sampling a certain dish, you more likely than not can attribute it to a talented (or lucky) line cook. It's all about the execution in a restaurant kitchen. I can come up with the best, most well thought-out menu on this planet, but unless the cooks can execute it during service, whether I'm there or not, it does not matter. In the high-end places, especially, the chef does not work on the line. Given that, I fail to see the benefit of whether he/she is there. Specials, btw, can be called in, or decided upon by a chef de cuisine, sous chef or sometimes even a cook.

[LaNiña]

Nina, why don't you just talk about food instead of grasping for weak analogies? Is it because you can't make the argument with respect to food?

To what do I owe the honor of this hostility, FG?

[Fat Guy]

It's called being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[tommy]

We've been there many times when she wasn't there. It's just as good - she learned from her mom and aunt anyway. And I purposefully left out the name of the restaurant (although many of you are familiar with our speaking about it) because I don't want you all to hold it against them.

that was a joke.

additionally, it's these types of threads that just rip this site apart from the seams. it's all just so fucking absurd. take a step back. you're all full of shit, if not yourselves.

[Fat Guy]

You are an idiot and I am disappointed in your reaction.

[LaNiña]

You are an idiot and I am disappointed in your reaction.

And I am tired of dealing with idiots like the two of you at every turn.

[John Whiting]

I can come up with the best, most well thought-out menu on this planet, but unless the cooks can execute it during service, whether I'm there or not, it does not matter.

Here the conductor/orchestra analogy becomes highly relevant. A great conductor can do little with a bad orchestra; in a large kitchen a visiting chef would have little control over detail.

It's interesting that conductors, like soloists, spend much of their time flying from one orchestra to another, while brief "guest appearances" by chefs are relatively rare. I suspect that if restaurants were laid out with the tables surrounding the work area, the irrelevant "cult of personality" would be even more prevelant than it is. I can see the spotlight zeroing in a virtuoso onion-chopper!