Long, lazy lunch in Machester

[thom]

Regarding payment I think the fairest way is to say that in any given 'dining-en-masse' situation the person with the biggest property portfolio should foot the communal bill.*

Works for me.

Cheers

Thom

*If said portfolio is based around tenament style slum housing and/or forcing elderly spinsters and helpless orphans out onto the street than the budding Van Hoogstraten's should also stand the whole restaurant a glass of champagne or two.

[Gary Marshall]

Regarding payment I think the fairest way is to say that in any given 'dining-en-masse' situation the person with the biggest property portfolio should foot the communal bill.*

Works for me.

Cheers

Thom

*If said portfolio is based around tenament style slum housing and/or forcing elderly spinsters and helpless orphans out onto the street than the budding Van Hoogstraten's should also stand the whole restaurant a glass of champagne or two.

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i absolutely agree, the retired should pay.

[Infrasonic]

Lindas Pantry- Aah the memories... used to have an office in Ducie House, so was a regular there for a couple of years.

Panacea.

Saturdays are crap. Full of out of towners (or bridge and tunnel as the NY board call them!) looking for a fight. Not just in Panacea, everywhere.

Fridays on the other hand, are full of people who work in town and so is quite a good catchup, networking night. Good for a cop -off as well Although I was asked in all seriousness once, "are you rich?"

On the ownership front, I was under the impression that Joe Akka had a slice of the equity along with IRG...? As Danny Betesh (Kennedy Street) is a close relative, I can't see funds being a problem

Door policy. Get your face in there early evening midweek a few times, and have a chat to the doormen now and again...sorted. And don't turn up in jeans and trainers when it's busy at 11.30, and expect to get in.

I

[thom]

Infrasonic,

Linda's in just awesome. I've had four offices in Ducie at various times and swore by the place (though it did make me fat. Ok fatter). I moved my company out in November and I still pine for their chips and make the occassional Friday lunchtime pilgrimage down Great Ancoats St.

I think both Panacea and town generally is crap on a Saturday and Friday is not much better. Thursdays and Sundays, now those are the days you want to go out if you want no queues, no lunatics, and a fairly laid back and friendly crowd who actually live or work in town.

I think Panacea was shared ownership and I was pretty sure IRG had the most significant slice. Joe is always named by the Diary pages as the 'owner' but not sure how official this is in Companies House eyes.

As to the door policy? If only it was as simple as a dresscode. I'm been in there with a group of lads and jeans no problem, and been in with my girlfriend on the way to a formal dinner and got initially knocked back. Strangely enough whenever I go in with the IRG boys there is no problem whatsoever. Inconsistent is the word and to be honest I am too old and grumpy to persist with places where I have to ingratiate myself with door staff (most latterly see Cloud 23 at The Hilton).

The IRG guys themselves admit is's a big problem and a tough balance to strike and I know this had led to most of the guys at Marketing Manchester and people such as City Guide guru Jonathan Schofield (who tend to field inquiries and sort itineries for writers and journos profiling Manchester from Europe, America and the Far East) have simply stopped sending people there because they find no matter what prep they do there is still a good chance they'll get turned away on the night.

Hey-ho, it might not be a business model I'd choose but despite all my grumping it makes them pots of cash so fair do's for ploughing on with it.

Cheers

Thom

[Infrasonic]

Ha ha. Cloud 23 I've not even bothered with so far, after hearing so many bad reports. I think the all time classic has to be making Hilton residents que with everyone else to get in! (They can't possibly have maintained that policy, surely?!?)

I seem to remember that The Radisson had the novel idea of putting house spirits and mixers on a large python/gun! And then charged (if memory serves me..) about 8 quid for a large one...! Lasted about a week before free pouring came in with bottled mixers..(having hired staff who could free pour in the first place!!)

Hotels, strange beasts.

I

Edited February 14, 2007 by Infrasonic (log)

[BertieWooster]

a man needs his own bar after all 

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Hmm, that sounds like a good idea

[fisherman]

So back on topic, where are you going for lunch Fisherman?

Cheers

Thom

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Looks like Thomas's or Sams, or Thomas's....

[RDB]

I think this thread highlights how much of a culinary wilderness Manchester city centre really is. Fanstastic, club, pub and shopping scene, but food wise it really is too top heavy in chains with the same old, same old menus. Oh well.

[Bapi]

I think this thread highlights how much of a culinary wilderness Manchester city centre really is. Fanstastic, club, pub and shopping scene, but food wise it really is too top heavy in chains with the same old, same old menus. Oh well. 

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Oh Jesus- you've done it now RDB.

Expect a fourteen page response from Thom.

[RDB]

oops, may I just add I was talking about higher end restaurants etc

[thom]

I think this thread highlights how much of a culinary wilderness Manchester city centre really is. Fanstastic, club, pub and shopping scene, but food wise it really is too top heavy in chains with the same old, same old menus. Oh well. 

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I both agree and disagree. I think Manchester had the broadest and most varied dining scene outside London (backed up by the fact the city always many more entries for the city then Birminham, Leeds, Glasgow etc in Hardens, GFG and so on) except (and this is a key exception) at the top end. We have quantity, we have variety, but we lack quality, in the absolute sense of the word.

I would in fact say Manchester is strong in independent dining which is either broadly mid-range in terms of price and ambition or ethnic (you want Malaysian, Korean, Danish, West African, Nepalese, Armenian or even say French, Italian or Chinese then you will find it) but piss, piss-poor in anything even approaching fine-dining or outstanding chef-patron led establishments.

To give you an idea here are some independent places (or at least more individual outlets from smaller groups) that are 'generally' rated around the city centre (the locals on here may agree or disagree on a few but hopefully agree on the majority). Not saying that they are all perfect by any means, and they range from informal cafes to 'proper' restaurants but they are all good enough to keep me coming back when the mood takes me:

Odd Bar, The Soup Kitchen, any of ten N4 curry cafes, Matt and Phreds, Lindas Cafe, Love Saves the Day, Northern Quarter Restaurant, The Market Restaurant, Marble Arch, Le Mont cafe, Jigsaw Cafe, Harvey Nichols (brasserie and restaurant), Sam's Chophouse, Earth Cafe, Oklahoma, Armenian Taverna, Koreana, Mr Thomas', Grinch, Chaopryha (sp?), Siam Orchid, The River Restaurant, Restaurant Bar and Grill, Croma, Rafas El Rincon, Alberts Shed, Sapporo Teppanyaki, Glamourous Restaurant, Obsidian, The Ox, New Emperor, Wings, Yang Sing, Lotus, Red Chilli, Woo Sang, Ho's Bakery, Pacific, San Carlo, Stock, Tampopo, Tai Pan, EastzEast, Velvet, Taurus, Ikan, Odder, Kro Bar (1 and 2 and Piccadilly), The cafes at the Art Gallery and particularly the Whitworth Art Gallery, Cafe Istanbul, Luso and so on and so on.

That's without even venturing into the suburbs where Palmiro, That Cafe, Greens, The Lime Tree, Isinglass not to mention Juniper stand out but there are hundreds more great places too - rounding up the West Didsbury restaurant scene would have doubled that list all on it's own!

Don't get me wrong, I have found the repeated implosion of one and after other aspiring 'serious' restaurants intensely dispiriting - this year more than any other, but although Manchester's food and drink scene (food retail also has some outstanding independent local stars too). is currently fundamentally unbalanced it is certainly not in any imminent danger of falling apart or succumbing to chain-itis. You just need to know where to look and vote with your feet.

So where does the city go from here? Is it a case of 'a city gets the restaurants it deserves', or is the dynamic (in terms of a willing and appreciative audience and commercial conditions) always in a continual state of flux and if so has the tide turned meaning 'build it and they will come' could stand true?

I have a huge number of (largely tedious) thoughts on this subject but to be honest I feel it is going to take a chef-patron with ambitions of food, service and consistency rather than yearnings for a prime site, 200 covers and footballer/soapstar diners to change the dining scene in this city. That or a big business concern underwriting the cost of wheeling a big name into the city.

Either way I just want a top drawer venue I can call my own, on my doorstep, which I can splash out on when there is good reason (or no reason whatsoever). Surely not too much to ask?

Cheers

Thom

EDIT: For Bapi and RDB - Too late, I was mid-flow!

Edited February 15, 2007 by thom (log)

[RDB]

I agree Thom and think maybe we are singing from the same hymn sheet. All the places you mention (the majority of which I have frequented) I agree are fine, but not many of which are exciting, innovative, or indeed at the higher end (Juniper being the only exception). Again for a city which is not short of a few bob, continually redeveloping and lets face it is the second city in England, a decent michelin star restaurant or two would not go a miss.

I gave up on having an eating night out in Manchester, a while back, last place being Palmiro, because it does not excite me (again Juniper excluded). It tends to be lunch times( good Lebanese on Cheetham Hill road called Bawadi,btw, think it is still open) and Saturdays when I eat out in town. I tend to travel the country now for 'higher end' food, which is a shame. Like yourself Thom a top drawer venue on the proverbial doorstep would be fantastic, and indeed surely not to much to ask

[thom]

good Lebanese on Cheetham Hill road called Bawadi

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Weirdly enough you are the second person to mention this place this week. I'm going to give it a a go, I love Lebanese food but just find The Cedar Tree to zany for regular visits...

Cheers

Thom

[BertieWooster]

The cafes at the Art Gallery and particularly the Whitworth Art Gallery

*waves*. Ach-hem.

[thom]

Le Mont cafe

*Waves back*

Cheers

Thom

[BertieWooster]

Le Mont cafe

*Waves back*

Cheers

Thom

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oooh, you are so asking for trouble. Le Mont cafe indeed.

[fisherman]

We went to Sams in the end, because they had calves liver on the menu, when we arrived the first thing we were told was 'No liver' Which irked Jo somewhat, but despite this, it was a very, very good meal, suet puddings were perfect, omelette Arnold Bennet almost perfect, a long lazy lunch was exactly what we got. The cheese was a bit of a let down though, straight out of the fridge and a very uninspiring choice.

Thanks everyone for your help.