The Cooking and Cuisine of the Veneto

[ludja]

Wow, Judith.  One of your very best of many great intro writeups.  Thank you!

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I agree; thank you very much. The photos are exceptional as well.

[Pontormo]

Indeedy. Impressive how you got that Venetian woman to pose for you in her bedroom!

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Now, you mention the importance of spices which makes sense given the long history of trade, theft (e.g. those ancient gilt, bronze horses at San Marco from Constantinople and the relic/body of Saint Mark himself from Alexandria) and other forms of cultural interactions with both Christians and Muslims in the east.

Yet, I'm trying to think of something strongly or complexly spiced and am coming up with a blank. Many of us cooked Sicilian dishes that carry obvious ties to the Middle East, but is there anything in Venetian cuisine that bears a similar imprint? Anyone know anything about Byzantine food?

[Kevin72]

Though not from Venice, I think a clear example is the heavily spiced peverada sauce used in this region to sauce game birds. I've seen recipes all over the map for ingredients but they all involve cooking the livers of the birds and then layering on various spices and flavors.

But that's a good point on the differences between Venetian and Sicilian food. Maybe the more elaborate, spiced cuisine was more a relic of the Middle Ages and Rennaissance style cooking that then faded away.

ETA: The da Fiore cookbook has a more old-school risi e bisi recipe that they say harkens back to Venice's golden age and uses cinnamon as a flavoring element.

Edited February 9, 2007 by Kevin72 (log)

[hathor]

Indeedy.  Impressive how you got that Venetian woman to pose for you in her bedroom!

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Now, you mention the importance of spices which makes sense given the long history of trade, theft (e.g. those ancient gilt, bronze horses at San Marco from Constantinople and the relic/body of Saint Mark himself from Alexandria) and other forms of cultural interactions with both Christians and Muslims in the east.

Yet, I'm trying to think of something strongly or complexly spiced and am coming up with a blank.  Many of us cooked Sicilian dishes that carry obvious ties to the Middle East, but is there anything in Venetian cuisine that bears a similar imprint?  Anyone know anything about Byzantine food?

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The hard part was getting that Venetian woman out of the dress...and those pictures you won't be seeing!!

I had the same thought as you regarding the spices. All the reference material mentioned the importance of spices, but they don't really show up in the recipes. An occasional clove, a bit of nutmeg; the only spice that shows up with regularity is pepper. The other interesting thing was that a lot of recipes called for combining olive oil and butter. I don't think we've seen that anywhere else.

This is from dinner earlier this week, and apparently I was chaneling the Veneto without realizing it. Roast quail (no spit) with pancetta on a bed of beans. It was delicious!

[Pontormo]

Though not from Venice, I think a clear example is the heavily spiced peverada sauce used in this region to sauce game birds.  I've seen recipes all over the map for ingredients but they all involve cooking the livers of the birds and then layering on various spices and flavors.

But that's a good point on the differences between Venetian and Sicilian food.  Maybe the more elaborate, spiced cuisine was more a relic of the Middle Ages and Rennaissance style cooking that then faded away.

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Judith, I think Kevin makes a good point here. After all, Venice's power continued to rise after Sicily no longer was the site of a significant court, especially in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. It would be interesting to know when aristrocratic palates began to rebel against a succession of spicy-sweet courses. The city became a seat for foreign invaders/allies against the Ottoman Empire for nearly a century until 1866 when Italian nationalists won. Austrians and the French may have influenced changes in the 18th & 19th centuries--but could they have been as important as tomatoes down south? Nothing like a little knowledge and a lot of ignorance to inspire speculation. At any rate despite the cosmopolitan nature of the maritime city, its mainland territorities did not accommodate the kinds of imported crops that Arabs brought early to Sicily, such as pistachios.

[Pontormo]

I neglected to praise the beautiful quail which you seem to be cooking quite a bit these days.

Until yesterday, I never noticed them around here at all, though I'm sure they may be found at independent butchers, the Eastern Market and places swankier than WF. However, I saw some frozen at WF and was tempted.

Are you quailivores preparing previously frozen birds?

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And looking very unlike vice-presidents, here are Venetian bird-hunters as painted by Carpaccio ; the panel is now at the Getty. (Admittedly, quail are not known to swoop down to the surface of a lagoon to catch fish and become prey to an archer's shot.)

Edited February 11, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[mrbigjas]

Are you quailivores preparing previously frozen birds?

when i cook them, i often do. they're available frozen in packages of six for $8 at asian supermarkets. since i don't know where they're from or anything, i generally don't make them in preparations that call for searing them to medium rare or anything, but for recipes where they're roasted or something, they're good.

[FoodMan]

Late start on Veneto for me, hopefully I'll get more stuff in the next few weeks.

Dinner on Saturday:

Sipped on a nice blood orange Negroni (a Negroni with 3/4 oz blood orange juice)

Braised lamb shanks with olives and oranges. The recipe if from Mario Batali.

Served it with a sage and Romano polenta. I tried the 3-hour method mentioned in Bill Buford's book and it produced a good result, but I am not sure it is better than the recipe I normally follow (from P. Wolfert, cooked in the oven).

Since it is still pretty chilly here this meal worked out great. It was delicious and comforting.

[Kevin72]

Are you quailivores preparing previously frozen birds?

when i cook them, i often do. they're available frozen in packages of six for $8 at asian supermarkets. since i don't know where they're from or anything, i generally don't make them in preparations that call for searing them to medium rare or anything, but for recipes where they're roasted or something, they're good.

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Me too. Occasionally they'll have the same packages already thawed "in season". Also, the quail I get are almost always sleeve-boned (i.e., only the wing and drumstick bones remain). I can't remember the last time I bought whole quail with bones intact. Just as well, though, since my wife's aversion to them used to be the small bones.

Beware when you buy quail however; there's one producer that sells them pre-seasoned and it's not well marked on the package. I've made it home with them before!

[Kevin72]

Lookin good, FM! Love the negroni. Something about cold weather makes you crave these bitter drinks.

Last night's meal started with pumpkin ravioli and ricotta salata:

We then had duck vallesana style from the Culinaria cookbook:

Valle salsa, "salt valley" is a marshy region of the Veneto with ample fish and more importantly water fowl present in the cooking. The duck is marinated in vinegar and wine overnight, browned off, then braised in the marinade with ample onions and anchovies. Really good.

[apronstrings]

Question: any showstopping Veneto-desserts I should know about? I'm still looking for dessert for my husbands birthday dinner in a couple of weeks. It will follow lasagna!

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I'm not sure it would fit what you are thinking of for a birthday celebration dessert but I remember having wonderful scroppino in Venice in the summertime. It's basically an "alcoholic smoothie" blend of lemon sorbet, prosecco and vodka.

One could serve them with "Zaletti" or Venetian cornmeal diamond cookies. I've made the cookies and and served them with sorbet or ice cream.. The zaletti I've made have some grappa, raisins and lemon peel in them in addition to the base ingredients of flour, cornmeal, butter, sugar, eggs and vanilla.

I've served lemon sorbet with vodka but have not made scroppino, persay. Here is a recipe I found on-line that also adds a little cream to the mix. click

Thanks so much for the link. I have been looking for a good scroppino recipe for a long time. Sounds just like the one I had in Venice this fall. I am making it for my party tomorrow. What perfect timing!!!

The other pastry-like dish I've read about from Venice are their Carnivale fritters.

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[FoodMan]

Oh c'mon Kevin...you know I'll need more details! I love those ravioli and the duch sounds great. What is it served with? looks like Polenta and some greens. How do u prepare this polenta?

[Kevin72]

Good lord, I totally spaced on that. I even meant to comment that I, too, cooked the polenta the Buford way, again with less-than-stellar results. It never behaves the way he describes in the book and takes on different, noticeable characteristics.

The greens are collard greens cooked with minced prosciutto and duck fat.

The pumpkin ravioli were spiced with clove, cinnamon, and nutmeg and also had candied citron in them (I was going to use sultanas but was out).

[Pontormo]

YUm!

I had no idea the lamb shanks were Venetian; I checked the index of Molto Mario last night for recipes from the Veneto. I guess the web site is more comprehensive. That dish, especially, looks perfect for this weather, though duck is always welcome.

I just found instructions for making polenta in the oven online. Just made almost 6 quarts of brodo in the oven yesterday and find I'm using the oven's low temperatures more and more these days. (Sorry, Little Ms. Foodie for your continuing loss.)

And Mrbigjas, thanks for the tip about quail at Asian grocers and Kevin, for warning about pre-seasoning.

ETRemove question.

Edited February 12, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[FoodMan]

Pontormo-

In the book Mario does not specify these are Venetian, but online;click here; in one of his Veneto episodes (great resource BTW, there are ten episodes and all recipes are available) he prepared lamb leg with olives and oranges...so I figured the shanks are more or less Venetian .

[Franci]

Thanks to Legourmet and Chimico for the etimology of topinambur!

Polenta: with bisato (eel), with sucui (zucchini), with shrimps (often used white polenta with fish), with baccala', with cuttlefish, with porcini.

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Franci, the reason I quoted this particular line is the fact that I have both zucchini and a new supply of polenta at home. I found nothing online using the spelling of zucchini offered here. Would you happen to know what Venetians do to zucchini when they're served with polenta?

Is this actually a vegetarian main dish? Or do you you serve something with protein on the same plate?

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Pontormo, sorry I didn't reply earlier, we just come back for a week end in Rome. We wanted to go to Venice but because of Carnevale we decided it was not a good time.

Polenta and zucchini. I found it only in Oretta Zanini De Vita collection of regional recipes.

Basically it says to saute the zucchini with some onion in oil and butter and some thyme. Cook the polenta and pour it in a baking dish (about 3 cm), dust with a good amount of pecorino di Pra' dei Gai (I never tried it) and layer the zucchini, more pecorino, some breadcrumbs, a little bit of butter and under the grill or salamander.

Polenta and funghi is much more common if you don't want to serve polenta with meat.

Today I didn't have a lot of ingredients at home, I still need to go out for grocery shopping. I decided to go with a simple risotto con la zucca

[FoodMan]

Franci, if this is not a perfectly cooked risotto, I don't know what is. Perfectly Venetian too by being a little on the wet side. Did you roast the Zucca first or just sautee them?

[Franci]

Franci, if this is not a perfectly cooked risotto, I don't know what is. Perfectly Venetian too by being a little on the wet side. Did you roast the Zucca first or just sautee them?

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Thanks! Here I cooked some of the squash in the onion base for risotto and some of it I sauteed in the pan. I know some people think that you cannot toast rice properly if you have already your base of vegetable in the pot but beeing only a portion I didn't have any problem. The squash which I used for topping the risotto was simply sautee in the pan and dusted with a very little cinnamon, I didn't want it to prevail. I like to have the contrast of soft squash in the rice and firmer but sweeter squash on top.

Here I have a confession, most of the purists would cut my head off but this risotto was cooked in the pressure cooker . With the pressure cooker I am always sure of the outcome, it's very

handy if I have guests and I don't want to spend my time stirring all the time or I am in a lazy mood. In 6-7 minutes it's ready.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Franci (log)

[Pontormo]

Franci, thanks for both the response to my earlier question and for the confession. I had no idea your love of culinary gadgets, tools and appliances reached in that direction.

[hathor]

I neglected to praise the beautiful quail which you seem to be cooking quite a bit these days.

Until yesterday, I never noticed them around here at all, though I'm sure they may be found at independent butchers, the Eastern Market and places swankier than WF.  However, I saw some frozen at WF and was tempted.

Are you quailivores preparing previously frozen birds?

*  *  *

And looking very unlike vice-presidents, here are Venetian bird-hunters as painted by Carpaccio ; the panel is now at the Getty. (Admittedly, quail are not known to swoop down to the surface of a lagoon to catch fish and become prey to an archer's shot.)

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Thanks! We love all little birdies. The ones that I can get in the States have all been frozen, they still taste good. I get them at the Asian market as well.

That painting is remarkable! When I was doing research on the Veneto, there was a recipe for heron, which included a lot of ingredients, with the explanation that the meat was fishy tasting and needed to have its flavor disguised. Can you imagine this in Italian cooking...disguising a flavor? Must have been nasty.

Kevin: those duck legs look outstanding!!

Foodman: You are a genius! Blood orange negroni! That sounds very, very good right about now.

Franci: your risotto is gorgeous. I know lots of people who swear by the pressure cooker method, and your picture seems to validate the technique.

Look what I found at our mountain side market!! Ecco Domani....a pinot grigio from the Veneto. Its not one of my favorites, but beggars can't be choosers, and I got all excited to find a Veneto wine in the mountains of Utah!

[Franci]

Today it was sardele in saor and fried squash.

[Pontormo]

Love the onions draped over perfectly golden fish, Franci. Beautiful.

While I realize the stack of squash is not touching the main course, I am quite surprised to see the contorno on the same plate!

P.S. Thanks for further information about heron, Judith. Fascinating about the heron. It makes sense that there is a terroir to the taste of wine or that cheese would take on the flavor of grasses and clover eaten by the animals milked, but I had no idea that there is also a meroir ( making up a word here) to gamey birds that feed from the sea.

And Elie, I checked out the listings on Food Network, pleased to see there are ten episodes of MM set in the Veneto.

Edited February 14, 2007 by Pontormo (log)

[FoodMan]

oooh, Franci, pressure cooker....I am scared of those things honestly and never used one. No matter what anyone says, your risotto rocks, after all that is what it's all about. If it tastes as sublime as it looks, I do not care if you made it in a microwave.

Love your saor dish too. I hate to keep nagging for details, but how are these fried squash made? just a simple water batter?

[Franci]

Pontormo, I am not so extreme, I can have something else on my plate, important that is not too crowed and there is not liquid running all over it.

Foodman, I sliced thin the squash, dusted with flour and deep fried. Meanwhile I warmed up some vinegar with salt and garlic. I made layers of fried squash and mint and wet with the warm vinegar. The recipe called for basil but since I prefer mint I used that. In the Sicilian version (zucca fritta all'agliata) they use mint. Let rest one day at room temperature before eating.

For the saor, last year I made the saor again and I browned the onions a little bit. I do like it more that way, next time I should keep in mind. Sweat some white onions in oil until soft with salt, brown not brown depending on your preference. Actually I am not sure if browning or not can be a difference between the venetian version or the one in Trieste . Anybody knows?

Add some softened raisins, toasted pine nuts- if you like- and vinegar and bring to a boil. I like to add a bayleaf. Dust with flour the sardines and deep fry until golden. Layer the onion with their liquid and the sardines. Let rest at room temperature for one day at least. I refrigerate only if I plan to keep for many days, always eat at room temperature.

As for pressure cooker, the latest versions are very good with a valve and a safety block lever. I own a small Lagostina and to cook chickpeas with it it's so much easier

Edited February 14, 2007 by Franci (log)

[Kevin72]

With the wife being pregnant, I was worried she'd be averse to the all seafood onslaught of my typical Valentine's feast.. So I came up with a newer menu, still Venetian-inspired, though.

First up was roasted scallops wrapped with duck prosciutto and a radicchio salad:

I used apple cider vinegar to dress the salad. The scallops were very good, but I'm pretty sure I could have made do with normal prosciutto instead (and saved the expense of the duck prosciutto also). But as I suspected, the richness of the scallop and prosciutto worked nicely off of the radicchio, though maybe some lemon, too would have been nice.

Next was crawfish soup, based on the Imperial Shrimp soup recipe in the Da Fiore cookbook:

Then, my traditional Valentine's ravioli, a re-interpretationl of the beet ravioli in Michele Scicolone's Italian Holiday Food cookbook.

So, rather than put beets in the filling, I mixed them in the dough and made a filling of ricotta and chives. The condimento is butter, a touch of rosewater, and poppyseeds, which aren't so photogenic I guess.

Finally was roast squab with peverada, the heavily spiced sauce for roasted fowl I mentioned earlier in the thread. In my version were the livers of the squab, minced salami, anchovies, ample black pepper, a dash of cinnamon, orange zest and juice, and red wine.

The squab were purchased at the Asian market nearby. They came head and feet on, a first for me. And one of them hadn't even been gutted, and even bigger first for me! Oh the things we do . . .

So I couldn't do them medium rare because of my wife's pregnancy, but also because she doesn't like the texture for game birds. I can see why medium rare is preferred; these dried out quickly.

We finished with the also traditional banana-ricotta gelato (without raw egg in there, of course).