Steak Frites, Relais de Venise and "secret" sauce

[Felice]

Steak frites seem to be on everyone’s mind lately.

Sunday night M6 had a show featuring Daniel Rose of Spring in search of the best Steak Frites in Paris and now today’s Figaroscope dossier features the best steak frites in Paris. They review and rate 25 restaurants in Paris and the Voltaire, Severo, and Unico come out on top.

François Simon trashes Backwardshat's beloved Gavroche, where he ate a 'sad piece of meat' and equally bad fries.

Edited to change Françoise to François

Edited May 24, 2007 by Felice (log)

[Ptipois]

Francoise Simon trashes Backwardshat's beloved Gavroche, where he ate a 'sad piece of meat' and equally bad fries.

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Good. More for us.

[BackwardsHat]

Francoise Simon trashes Backwardshat's beloved Gavroche, where he ate a 'sad piece of meat' and equally bad fries.

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Good. More for us.

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Agreed! More for us and maybe less of a wait if this means I only have to wait 15 minutes for a table instead of 30!

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Worth a write up in the NYT?

I'll be upfront and say that our reaction to LRdV some years ago was less than need-to-return, although we did accompany friends several times. Okay, for the money you get a pleasant little salad, a plate of sliced steak and frites. Could be worse. But I can't understand the enthusiasm over the so-called secret sauce, to say nothing of the willingness to stand in line at opening and before second sitting.

How would you describe the sauce? How would you try to mimic it? Would you bother?

Edited June 8, 2007 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[Ptipois]

Just my opinion: Le Relais de Venise serves Parisian-style steak-frites at its very best. I think it is perfect in its own right. And the sauce is delicious.

Also, it is one of the very few places in Paris where waiting in line is fun (stag parties, pinstriped suits, Porte Maillot hookers, etc.).

[John Talbott]

Irony? Coincidence? Jean Claude Ribaut in Wednesday-Thursday’s Le Monde has an inquiry on entrecotes, using Le Relais de Venise aka Le Restaurant de l’Entrecote as his peg. He talks of the sauce as "miraculous" and says they'd never reveal its components but folks have speculated that it consists of anchovies, a Swiss potion, chicken liver, fresh and flower of thyme, la crème fleurette, white mustard, water, butter, salt and pepper. For its preparation, I'll refer you to the article which you should download or copy soon, as it passes into the pay archives after a few days.

Let us know how it turns out.

Edited June 21, 2007 by John Talbott (log)

[John Talbott]

Jean Claude Ribaut in Wednesday-Thursday’s Le Monde has an inquiry on entrecotes, using Le Relais de Venise aka Le Restaurant de l’Entrecote as his peg and deals with the specifics of the steak, its secret sauce and how to cook the fries.

I'll refer you to the article for the specifics, but if you're interested, you should download or copy it soon, as it passes into the pay archives after a few days.

[Poppy Quince]

So is the place called Relais de l'Entrecôte on rue St-Benoit in the 6th an impostor? They serve exactly the same menu and have done for years, but there's no mention of it in the article or the website noted (www.entrecote.fr)

Edited to say I just read the "steak frites" thread and apparently this has been discussed already.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Poppy Quince (log)

[Abra]

What's moutarde blanche? As a mustard devotee, I thought I'd heard it all.

[John Talbott]

So is the place called Relais de l'Entrecôte on rue St-Benoit in the 6th an impostor?  They serve exactly the same menu and have done for years, but there's no mention of it in the article or the website noted (www.entrecote.fr)

Edited to say I just read the "steak frites" thread and apparently this has been discussed already.

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Maybe I'm repeating what's been said before but there are several who claim to be the original; old time New Yorkers may recall the "Original Ray's Pizza" Wars.

[Ptipois]

No, only one claims to be the original, but some relatives or children of the founders ran away from the Porte Maillot restaurant with the secret sauce, or some close copy of it, and opened L'Entrecôte restaurants in several locations a while later; there is one on rue Saint-Benoit and another one near the Opéra. Please note that they are called "L'Entrecôte" while the original place is called Le Relais de Venise - L'Entrecôte. The other L'Entrecôte do not claim to be the original, while the original insists that the other ones are not the original.

From what I have gathered, the sauce at the more recent locations is not quite identical to the one at Le Relais de Venise.

Edited June 21, 2007 by Ptipois (log)

[John Talbott]

No, only one claims to be the original, but some relatives or children of the founders ran away from the Porte Maillot restaurant with the secret sauce, or some close copy of it, and opened L'Entrecôte restaurants in several locations a while later; there is one on rue Saint-Benoit and another one near the Opéra. Please note that they are called "L'Entrecôte" while the original place is called Le Relais de Venise - L'Entrecôte. The other L'Entrecôte do not claim to be the original, while the original insists that the other ones are not the original.

From what I have gathered, the sauce at the more recent locations is not quite identical to the one at Le Relais de Venise.

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Whadever. But Pti or Margaret, we need a devotee to test the Le Monde semi-hemi-quasi-recipe.

[Ptipois]

Whadever.  But Pti or Margaret, we need a devotee to test the Le Monde semi-hemi-quasi-recipe.

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I have read Ribaut's recipe and I find it a bit dubious. Worth trying, who knows? That may be the real thing.

But serious (?) research has also led to a variation of the Swiss sauce "Café de Paris" and that sounds more like it.

[John Talbott]

What's moutarde blanche?  As a mustard devotee, I thought I'd heard it all.

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Believe me, I’m no expert, but this website says that white is the least pungent and used in American ballpark and English mustard, brown or Indian is next most pungent and used in curries and pastes, and black is most pungent and used in Bordeaux, Dijon and Meaux mustard.

[Ptipois]

Good website, but they forgot the best of all mustards, la moutarde d'Orléans!

Edited June 22, 2007 by Ptipois (log)

[Jonny Bus]

Hello all gulleters,

I am new to the forms and this is in fact my first post! I am originally from Montreal, but am spending the year abroad in France. So expect to see more of me in the coling year.

The other night in paris I went to Relqis d'Entrecote and enjoyed a very nice abd simple dinner. Steak Frite may not be the most sophisticated meal, but it certainly hit the spot, and was a bargain by paris standards (21 euros for salad, and Steak Frite).

I am sure that most of you on the forms know the place, judging from the line in front when I arrived, so my question to you is: what is in the "secret sauce" (as the waitress put it) which they smother the steak in?

I consider myself generally quite good at figuring out ingredients, but this time I was at a lose. So I submit to you, the egullers, who will hopefully be able to help me save face.

[John Talbott]

Hello all gulleters,

I am new to the forms and this is in fact my first post! I am originally from Montreal, but am spending the year abroad in France. So expect to see more of me in the coling year.

The other night in paris I went to Relqis d'Entrecote and enjoyed a very nice abd simple dinner. Steak Frite may not be the most sophisticated meal, but it certainly hit the spot, and was a bargain by paris standards (21 euros for salad, and Steak Frite).

I am sure that most of you on the forms know the place, judging from the line in front when I arrived, so my question to you is: what is in the "secret sauce" (as the waitress put it) which they smother the steak in?

I consider myself generally quite good at figuring out ingredients, but this time I was at a lose. So I submit to you, the egullers, who will hopefully be able to help me save face.

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Welcome.

The secret sauce has been discussed before elsewhere and in Le Monde recently. I'm going to merge this into the thread that discusses steak/frites so we can have all the information in the same place.

Once again welcome and we look forward to your participation this year.

[BackwardsHat]

Will I need a reservation for Le Gavroche? I didn't make one the first time but maybe I got lucky...

[adey73]

From my non-existent school boy French.

This "secret" sauce contains fried chicken lived passed through a chinois, thyme, dijon, butter, water, S&P and cream?

The frites are blanched then cooked in fat at 160, then finished at 180?

That's as far as I can get, can one Francophile please enlighten this monolinguist?

[John Talbott]

From my non-existent school boy French.

This "secret" sauce contains fried chicken lived passed through a chinois, thyme, dijon, butter, water, S&P and cream?

The frites are blanched then cooked in fat at 160, then finished at 180?

That's as far as I can get, can one Francophile please enlighten this monolinguist?

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I'm not a Francophone but I'm not sure what more you need; I think you've got it; there's chicken livers, thyme and thyme blossoms/flowers and the cream is light not fraiche.

As for

Will I need a reservation for Le Gavroche? I didn't make one the first time but maybe I got lucky...

I'll give my stock answer, in Paris or at Joe's Diner, I always reserve. I think it's a mark of respect, it ensures you get the best table and they know your name or assumed name which makes it more personal. Plus you'll never be turned away.

[julot-les-pinceaux]

Will I need a reservation for Le Gavroche?  I didn't make one the first time but maybe I got lucky...

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For once, I do not disagree with François Simon, that chef killer. I found the food in le Gavroche to be OK but the place particuarly obnoxious and the open discrimination against water drinkers made me angry and feel like a persecuted minority. That's one of the few places I would actually refuse to go unless they have changed drastically.

feels always strange to write bad comments about a place.

Edited October 22, 2007 by julot-les-pinceaux (log)

[BackwardsHat]

For once, I do not disagree with François Simon, that chef killer. I found the food in le Gavroche to be OK but the place particuarly obnoxious and the open discrimination against water drinkers made me angry and feel like a persecuted minority. That's one of the few places I would actually refuse to go unless they have changed drastically.

feels always strange to write bad comments about a place.

I'll be there in a few weeks so I'll post my thoughts as one of my dining companions is a water drinker as well...

Also, I read your lunch vs dinner articles, as well as your review of savoy 100e lunch... Nice work!! Great writing, pictures, etc... I went ahead and booked the 100e lunch at Savoy, and I'm looking forward to it as I've never had lunch there but love that place... Def one of my favorite places to eat, such a fun time

Just deciding now between a dinner at Ambroise, ADPA, or Arpege for my final meal... I'm already booked at Meurice and Taillevent... Decisions decision!!!

[julot-les-pinceaux]

Thanks a lot. Winkler, Loiseau and Roellinger are next.

Are you asking for advice? Imo, nobody beats l'Ambroisie or l'Arpege when they're on. (And of course nobody beats the prices of l'Arpege whether they're on or off -- but hey, since Lucas Carton closed, they're one of the few places left with Bernard Anthony's cheese ).

[BackwardsHat]

Thanks a lot. Winkler, Loiseau and Roellinger are next.

Are you asking for advice? Imo, nobody beats l'Ambroisie or l'Arpege when they're on. (And of course nobody beats the prices of l'Arpege whether they're on or off -- but hey, since Lucas Carton closed, they're one of the few places left with Bernard Anthony's cheese ).

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Ya, looking for advice... I'm having trouble making a decision

I'll probably go with l'Ambroisie... Or maybe I'll just stick with what I have, too many 3-stars in 1 week can tend to diminish the experience sometimes...

[John Talbott]

Well, it seems that these restaurants are so famous that they have made it into Wikipedia...

Relais de Venise

Makes me want steak frites 

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I don't know what's correct about their familial relationship/entanglements, especially after reading the Wikipedia entry, but in today's Figaroscope, Emmanuel Rubin gave two hearts to what he called (in addition to the Porte Maillot and St Germain ones), the third Relais de l’Entrecote, 101, blvd du Montparnasse in the 6th, 01.46.33.82.82, 7/7, serving the same formula (in the US sense), salade-entrecote-frites, with its "famous sauce" for about 30 €.