jersey foodies

[chopjwu12]

Veronica and i have been pondering this question for years and we would really like everyones input on the matter. Now obviously this doesn't include the people of egullet so i dont want anyone to get offended.

Ok here we go......DO PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY KNOW OR UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT FOOD? Thats right i said it and i know im going to get yelled and screamed at for it. I bring this up because of our recent trip to gramercy. There was also a strand about strange food combinations that may relate to this.

A good example of what i'm talking about came out when we got one of our desserts at gramercy. The peach tatan with the BLACKPEPPER creme fresh. I compare this to a dessert we currently have on the menu at the restaurant where i work. The white pepper apricot tart with almond icecream. It is a wonderfull dessert but what a rough first few weeks it had. People were afraid to try it. I dont think they really understood that pepper and desserts go great together. The desserts first saturday we sold like 3 of them. So we made a change and placed it on the tasting dessert plate and on the regular menu. It took a while for people to catch on but they finally did. The dessert is a preety good seller. Its like you have to pull teeth in new jersey for some not all people to try something different.

Take for instance our dessert menu. We have fairly simple desserts you know nothing to exotic but they are all very good. But i know when i look at a menu i like to look at the interesting menu items. It just seems the opposite in NJ. I think one of our most popular items is the thousand layers. Although very good and preety nothing complex at all. Berries pastry cream puff pastry. The fig dessert and the apricot tart are much more interesting to me.

Well let me stop and start listening. I want to here why you guys think the people of NJ are less willing to taste something different. Or do you guys think i am off my rocker?

Let me just say one more time i'm not talking about everyone but those who do know food are a select few.

[Lreda]

Chop, what's up?

I just got finished and I'm tired just like I'm sure you are. I've owned my place for 7 1/2 years and I understand what you're saying. I think sometimes it just what real estate people always talk about. Location, location, location! There are items that we eat when we dine in N.Y. that we want to bring here but you have a different demograffic area. My place is in Morris Co. You just have to learn what you can push the evelope with and what you can't. It's frustrating but it's what it is. I patterned my place after The Gotham Bar & Grill when I opened in '94 but what goes in the city doesn't always go in N.J.

Hang in there, as long as you have a passion for what you do it will work out. I've created what I thought were beautiful creations, toiled for hours trying to perfect it and then sold only 1 on a weekend. Just remember you have to give the clientelle what they want, not what you think they should have. I cringe when a order comes in for let's say a shrimp scampi, which I don't have on my menu, but I make it because the customer is #1.

Anyway, thankfully I was busy tonight on a summer night when most of my customers are usually vacationing. Could it be because I made shrimp scampi on a busy night when I was looking to push say, beautiful Alaskian Sock-Eye Salmon over a salad of yellow, red & purple heirloom tomatoes with braised endive.

Hey, we cook for the people.

Good luck dude.

Lou

[chopjwu12]

But its just white pepper not chocolate and scallops like i had at popillon(sp)

[dodge621]

[DO PEOPLE IN NEW JERSEY KNOW OR UNDERSTAND ANYTHING ABOUT FOOD? ]

more importantly, do you really know or understand your customers wants.

if you are a chef obviously you have a higher level of knowledge than the average restaurant goer. Based on marketing your food should meet your customers demands, not the other way around.

as Lreda states [but I make it because the customer is #1]

[chopjwu12]

and i dont argue with that point. You have to give the people what they want because they are #1 sometimes not all the time. I find that you have to try to find a balance between what you want to do and what the people want which i think we do really well at the restaurant. My basic question is why are people in NJ so fearfull of something new?

[dodge621]

Where is your restaurant? What town? I would that perhaps in more restaurant laden towns such as Montclair, Ridgewood, Hoboken your innovative dishes may be welcomed than in other towns.

Is your restaurant in the right location to offer the foods you like to cook?

[glenn]

Considering NY caters to some of the most sophisticated pallettes in the world and has the most creative chefs, it's only natural for any other place to seem boring. You'll never catch me waving a flag for NJ, but I think the comparison is unfair. NJ is probably more sophisticated than most of the rest of the country when it comes to dining. You can make similar comparisons in most any other area, such as music, theater, etc.

On the other hand, as as diner, I can say the same about restaurant management as you say about the consumer. For example, I find the service (in general) in NJ to be amateurish, at least compared to NY. NJ will always be a 2nd class state unless someone gets rid of NY.

[Lreda]

Good point about management Glenn. Let's face it, NY & NJ, apple & oranges seperated by water. But you know my wait staff would be stronger if I could find some aspiring actors.

[Rosie]

Food Arts, a trade magazine has an article a few times each year called "what do they know." In it chefs from all over the country describe elegant, exotic dishes and some not so unusual dishes that they put on their menu and no one ordered them. So, I think the problem you are speaking about is universal except in large cities. While it is true that the restaurateur is in business to make money and should therefore offer what the customer wants--I also feel that the chef should also raise the food awareness of his customers. If you look at the abundance of wine dinners, tasting events and the innovative menus of some NJ restaurants you would see that some NJ foodies do "get it" and want the type of food that is found at Nicholas, Ryland Inn, Bernards Inn, Epernay etc.

[tommy]

NJ will always be a 2nd class state unless someone gets rid of NY.

make it so.

[Rail Paul]

about the actors...

Some of the most sophisticated upselling has been done by people who act well.

"We have a delightful dessert tonight of poached pears and spring berries, topped with cream and a hint of black pepper. I tried some earlier tonight, and the pepper really makes Chef Dave's brandy sauce stand out. May I bring you a small sample?"

or

"We have a special tonight, only three servings will be available. It's a sockeye salmon salad served with NJ heirloom tomatoes from Warren county. I understand the owner served the same salad to his family earlier tonight. May I bring you that?"

[chopjwu12]

Ok i understand what you are all saying. Thats a great point about the servers but we have very good servers.

i think the ryland inn does a great job with serving what they want. i think they do the best job with serving what they want. Because they have a safety net in the a la carte menu. There tasting menus range from not to exotic to preety darn exotic.

[Rachel Perlow]

I like the description of the server upselling (actually, it's not necessarily upselling, more good pushing). Do any of you restaurant people ever have practice roll playing sessions with your servers? (whether actors or not?)

[=Mark]

This ties in to my overall feeling about dining out. You have a limited budget, do you try a new place for a first time or do you go for the tried and true? You've decided on where to dine, do you again go for the dish you know you love, or try something new/exotic.

A lot is going to depend on your mood, but I do have to agree that how the selections are presented on the menu as well as how the waitstaff describes them will affect my ultimate decision.

As for the topic in question, if you are wondering whether the NJ dining population "Gets It," I suggest you spend some time promoting fine dining out in western Pa.

[Letseatsomemore]

I like the description of the server upselling (actually, it's not necessarily upselling, more good pushing). Do any of you restaurant people ever have practice roll playing sessions with your servers? (whether actors or not?)

It's been tried but upselling is a tough thing to teach even with roll playing. It comes down to this: either you're a salesman or you're not. There is the preservice meeting at every restaurant when the chef goes over the specials and any menu modifications with the staff so they can sell those items. SOme waiters have a natural knack for upselling--ever gotten a special because the waiters description was music to your ears? Others waiters don't. Ever been to a restaurant with the bottle water on the table and instead of offering it the server just whisks it away?

[Double 0]

How many poeple in NYC, or for that matter any other big city, really "get" good food. Maybe 2%?. In NYC that comes out to maybe 200,000 people(more than enough to keep every "great and innovative" restuarant busy. I'm betting that in NJ the percentage is about the same. For every person who loves cutting edge food there are 50 who would rather eat at Cheesecake factory I think most people would rather eat at home.Iwonder how much innovative and cutting edge cooking is going on in those kitchens? More than goes on in any big city.

[PaulaJK]

Chop.........

You ask this question after cooking at the

Ryland Inn????????????

[chopjwu12]

Chop.........

        You ask this question after cooking at the

Ryland Inn????????????

yeah why is that a problem?

Alot of the ryland inn customers came from far dont forget. i think the % of people who get food in NYC is alot higher then 2%. I would probably tag 2% to the entire state of NJ.

[tommy]

i think playing the percentage game in this discussion is pretty dangerous, as we're just pulling numbers from our arses. glenn seems to have summed it all up rather nicely a few posts back.

[cabrales]

i think the ryland inn does a great job with serving what they want. i think they do the best job with serving what they want. Because they have a safety net in the a la carte menu. There tasting menus range from not to exotic to preety darn exotic.

chop -- While I have not yet dined at Ryland Inn, as you noted, the restaurant appears to have a "traditional" tasting menu to fall back on as well (as opposed to the "gourmand" or "vegetarian" tasting menu).

http://www.rylandinn.com/menus/tastingtraditional.htm

[Lady S]

I agree with everyone who has posted. This is not a New Jersey problem at all. I have eaten in restaurants around the world, and what is different in Hong Kong is not necessarily different in Paris. Each country and each town or city has their own specialities. What we may think is unusual may not be unusual in London or Melbourne. .Perhaps we expect our restaurants to be global, and I don't know of one restaurant in any city in any country in the world that is "different" to anyone who might eat there. I think we should stop putting New Jersey down, and appreciate what we have. I love the Ryland Inn and Restaurant Nicholas, and The Brnards Inn where I had a very good dinner this evening, but they are no more typical New Jersey restaurants that L'espinasse or Gramercy Tavern is typical New York, or Le Caprice, Gordon Ramsey or Le Gavroche in London are typically English, or that Taillevent or Ambroisie or Alain Ducasse in Paris are typically French restaurants. Let's not try to expect all restaurants to be like some of the three star Michelin which are basically alike one another, but not typical of the countries where they are located. They are more typical of the Critics, than the regular people who like to dine out at good restaurants with good service.

[chopjwu12]

I agree and disagree with you lady s. I do agree that gt and such are typcal NY restaurants. But i wouldn't say the ryland, nicholas, stage house, frog and peach, and a couple others are your typical NJ restaurants. I would define typical as the norm. I wouldn't put any of these restaurant in the normal NJ catagory.

[finker99]

Customer's want what customers want, at my store (fink's funky chicken and ribs.) I experimented a little, for example, i made a lamb and guiness stew around st patrick's day and i sold one order that whole week, but i sold about 15 corned beef briskets. The reason that things like pepper in dessert are considered unique and special is that they ARE unique and special. If it wasn't considered odd and avante garde would a place like the gramercy tavern or the like put it on there menu. At Mexicali Blues Cafe in Teaneck, we would occasionaly get a lobe of foie gras to experiment with, we knew we would be winding up with the lion's share of it because the customers, for the most part, would even want to try it as a free taste. But, that is part of the reason that we would run it, it is definetly something that people will talk about and as we all know a restaurant is only as good as its buzz. If everybody liked pepper ice cream, I would be able to go down to pathmark and buy a gallon and something like coriander ice cream would be on your menu. Foodies everywhere will try just about anything, and I have met many NJ foodies, but just because they dont order the more exotic things as often as you would like does not make them any less discerning than NY foodies. As others have said, the pure numbers of people in NYC, both residents and tourists from around the world gaurentees(sp) that exotic items will have a larger audience than in NJ where the restaurants will cater to a similar demographic but much less dense. So yes there are far fewer Foodies living in NJ and we also don't have the draw to bring people from around the world to our restaurants so you are not going to sell the same quantity of your more exotic items to these people, however these items will be MORE exotic and different for the simple reason that there isn't a store on every other corner selling these thing. It will stick in the customers' heads and they will mention it to there friends and help get the word about your restaurant out and as was mentioned earlier, people gradually catch on.

fink

[Letseatsomemore]

Well said fink! But are you making any of that Lamb and guiness stew anytime soon?

[Rachel Perlow]

Yes, just let us know next time you're making it!