Water Ganache

[Desiderio]

I coated the truffles last night, the were nice and firm ( I let sit the ganache overnight ) they coated ok .The falvor was nice , very intense, since was a test batch , I didnt do much for the flavor ,and next time I will try different chocoalte as well ( I am waiting for the Apamate el rey ).Anyway experiment not bad at all.

[escry]

I love El Rey's Apamate and use it for enrobing. However El Rey's Gran Saman, on which Apamate is based, is even better. Though not suitable for enrobing, it would certainly be my first choice for truffle interiors.

I've been meaning to make a ganache with these chocolates for some time. Really interested to hear your thoughts.

[Kerry Beal]

So today I took my water ganache laced with kirsch along to a friends where I was showing her some molding techniques.

I made some truffles with it and dipped them in milk chocolate. The texture was very soft, interesting, but the flavour was actually quite disgusting. Somehow that combination tasted like cleaning fluid.

Further experimentation to follow.

[miladyinsanity]

I coated the truffles last night, the were nice and firm ( I let sit the ganache overnight ) they coated ok .The falvor was nice , very intense, since was a test batch , I didnt do much for the flavor ,and next time I will try different chocoalte as well ( I am waiting for  the Apamate el rey ).Anyway experiment not bad at all.

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Ooh I love the Apamate.

To bring this back on topic, I'll probably glaze a chocolate genoise with a water ganache/chocolate water/whatever you call it, tomorrow.

Any ideas on ratio? Will 1 to 1 by weight do? I've 66% Valrhona something.

[Desiderio]

Well i brought my "water truffles " , at work to have my ghinni pig try them.One of the lady ios on a diet and she is been craving chocolate , I usually bring her some very dark chocolate so she can have little bit of it,well she try them and said they were very satisfying , great chocolate taste without the added fat of cream or butter etc.She came later asking me if I had more she would buy them .This is good experiment it expands my customers range, if I use a nice dark chocolate like Apamate for these kind of truffles, Iam going to have more customers willing to indulge ( the secret is to say they are good for you , of course its CHOCOLATE! ).Well good good.Need to try some more .

[sote23]

I was thinking about trying a water ganache. Has anyone successfully made one?

Luis

[sote23]

Does anyone have a general recipe I can try?

Luis

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[Kerry Beal]

Looking back in this thread - it looks like 1:1 by weight is the first thing to try - then adjust for your chocolate.

[Desiderio]

I only did it once to try and I have to say I was surprise by the intense chocolate flavor of the truffles, very nice, one of my customer really really enjoy them ( she was the only one that try them since she was on a stricktier diet I tryed those for her, with dark chocolate).

[John DePaula]

I agree... they're lovely and smooth - very intense chocolate flavor. If it weren't for the shelf life, I'd make them more often.

[Teri Everitt]

Would this ganache set up firm enough to be a filling in a wedding cake? I have to make a wedding cake for lactose intolerant people in a few weeks. The cake part is ok since they aren't vegan, at least I can use eggs.

[John DePaula]

Would this ganache set up firm enough to be a filling in a wedding cake?  I have to make a wedding cake for lactose intolerant people in a few weeks.  The cake part is ok since they aren't vegan, at least I can use eggs.

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In general, firmness will depend entirely on the ratio of water to chocolate. Definitely something you want to try out ahead of time to get the exact ratio down.

Remember: the ratio will change depending on the chosen chocolate.

[gap]

I did some experimenting with this a month or so ago. The more science minded in our community might correct me but I think you're basically trying to make a water and fat emulsion. The fat in this instance comes from the cocoa butter in the chocolate. So, generally speaking, the higher the cocoa percentage chocolate, the more fat and, therefore, the more water you need.

When I was doing it I managed to get any consistency from whipped-cream-like to mousse-like to stiff-ganache-like and I experimented with both milk and dark chocolates.

The key is heat the water first to a temperature that wont burn the chocolate - eg., 50 C. Then add the chocolate and stir it in to melt. Then pour into an ice bath and whisk to the consistency you want. You could probably also chill in the fridge and then whisk it when its cold in a mixer if you had a lot to do, but I didn't try this.

The really neat thing though is if it doesn't work out like you want, just re-melt it in a saucepan and add more chocolate or water. The re-cool and re-whisk.

Edited May 27, 2008 by gap (log)

[John DePaula]

Yes, exactly, and I also think you'd find an immersion blender quite useful to have on hand.

[pastrymama]

I almost always make ganache with chocolate chips and water. It seems to have a little more coating power than ganache made with good chocolate, probably because of the extra ingredients that keep the chips from melting when baking. I also like the taste. I use mainly Valrhona Manjari for baking etc. and I think the flavor of ganache with it is not sweet enough. Also the water instead of cream lets the chocolate flavor come through better. I have done this for many years and even people that say they only eat expensive chocolate like it.

I just put chips in a plastic bowl depending on how much ganache I want. I don't weigh it, then I put in hot water until it just begins to appear through the chips. Then I microwave it for a couple of minutes. Stir with a whisk and if it isn't smooth I give it another 30 or more seconds and stir until smooth. If it seems a little thick, I just add a little more hot water and stir it in, or if too thin add a few more chips. Works every time.

Edited May 27, 2008 by pastrymama (log)

[TheSwede]

I tried to do the Chocolate Chantily (ie "whipped chocolate") mentioned upthread, but no success. I made a water ganache with 35% fat /65% water (actually Earl Grey tea), added a tiny bit of gelatine and then tried to whip air into it. Didn't work, no air got into the mixture.

Any suggestions why?

So, I gave up and just put the mixture into the fridge. Once it set I had a nice quite firm conventional ganache that would have been perfect for trufles.

[gap]

The mixture does need to be whipped over an ice bath to cool it and it can take a while of vigorous mixing. Otherwise add more chocolate.

[Tiny]

What I know about water ganache:

In formulating a dark chocolate ganache recipe for use in bon bon and truffle applications a good rule of thumb is that the chocolate should be 2 parts to 1 part liquifier when using cream, 25 percent (of the liquifier) glucose or invert sugar to help with texture and lower water activity. Liquid flavorings are optional ,but need to be considered part of the liquid total. Alcohol is optional and doesn't count as a liquid and butter is optional and should be added at 40% of any non cream liquifier.

Using this formula I would assume that the following recipe would work well as a water ganache and have a decent 3-4 week shelf life,

500g 60% chocolate

150g water

100g butter

75g glucose syrup

20% Alcohol (optional)

Liquid flavoring (optional but adjust butter and chocolate accordingly)

(may need some tweaking depending on the fat content of your particular chocolate)

I would think that if you only used water and chocolate, the shelf life would be very short and the texture would be hard and waxy since cocoa butter as the only fat would be lacking in meltability and mouth feel. Butter fat lowers the combined melting temp and gives that velvety smooth mouth feel....(which is why cream is the liquid of choice in ganache to begin with)

This is my understanding so far, I could be way off...

Edited May 29, 2008 by Tiny (log)

[Kerry Beal]

What I know about water ganache:

In formulating a dark chocolate ganache recipe for use in bon bon and truffle applications a good rule of thumb is that the chocolate should be 2 parts to 1 part liquifier when using cream, 25 percent (of the liquifier) glucose or invert sugar to help with texture and lower water activity. Liquid flavorings are optional ,but need to be considered part of the liquid total. Alcohol is optional and doesn't count as a liquid and butter is optional and should be added at 40% of any non cream liquifier.

Using this formula I would assume that the following recipe would work well as a water ganache and have a decent 3-4 week shelf life,

500g 60% chocolate

150g water

100g butter

75g glucose syrup

20% Alcohol (optional)

Liquid flavoring (optional but adjust butter and chocolate accordingly)

(may need some tweaking depending on the fat content of your particular chocolate)

I would think that if you only used water and chocolate, the shelf life would be very short and the texture would be hard and waxy since cocoa butter as the only fat would be lacking in meltability and mouth feel. Butter fat lowers the combined melting temp and gives that velvety smooth mouth feel....(which is why cream is the liquid of choice in ganache to begin with)

This is my understanding so far, I could be way off...

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Blake - when you say the alcohol doesn't count, do you allow for the strength of the alcohol?

[gap]

What I know about water ganache:

In formulating a dark chocolate ganache recipe for use in bon bon and truffle applications a good rule of thumb is that the chocolate should be 2 parts to 1 part liquifier when using cream, 25 percent (of the liquifier) glucose or invert sugar to help with texture and lower water activity. Liquid flavorings are optional ,but need to be considered part of the liquid total. Alcohol is optional and doesn't count as a liquid and butter is optional and should be added at 40% of any non cream liquifier.

Using this formula I would assume that the following recipe would work well as a water ganache and have a decent 3-4 week shelf life,

500g 60% chocolate

150g water

100g butter

75g glucose syrup

20% Alcohol (optional)

Liquid flavoring (optional but adjust butter and chocolate accordingly)

(may need some tweaking depending on the fat content of your particular chocolate)

I would think that if you only used water and chocolate, the shelf life would be very short and the texture would be hard and waxy since cocoa butter as the only fat would be lacking in meltability and mouth feel. Butter fat lowers the combined melting temp and gives that velvety smooth mouth feel....(which is why cream is the liquid of choice in ganache to begin with)

This is my understanding so far, I could be way off...

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I guess when I think of water gananche I am thinking of only water and chocolate -maybe I should use the term chocolate chantilly instead.

[gfron1]

I just put chips in a plastic bowl depending on how much ganache I want.  I don't weigh it, then I put in hot water until it just begins to appear through the chips.  Then I microwave it for a couple of minutes.  Stir with a whisk and if it isn't smooth I give it another 30 or more seconds and stir until smooth.  If it seems a little thick, I just add a little more hot water and stir it in, or if too thin add a few more chips.  Works every time.

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I used this technique last night on a vegan birthday cake and it was perfect. No fuss and it wasn't time consuming as others had warned. The whole process took just over 3 minutes including microwave time, and my ~45 seconds of whisking. Perfect. Thanks.

[dougal]

I honestly don't know if it might be any help to anyone (he says he won't tell) but there was a piece about Damian Allsop (and water) in last weekend's Observer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...16/foodanddrink

Edited to get the name spelling right!

And edited again, on request, to add this short excerpt/précis ...

... Over the past two years Allsop has made a growing name for himself because of his obsession with junking the usual rich butter and cream-based ganache that usually fills chocolates and, instead, perfecting his own closely guarded formula.

'I use water!' he says, pointing at a small food mixer. 'I mix it all in there. It's incredible. Just think about it!' He is striding up and down his small workshop now. 'I have thrown away hundreds of kilograms of chocolate because I thought I couldn't get the right flavour when it came to doing a water-based ganache. I mean, it made perfect sense to use water. Chocolate is egotistical. It doesn't like anything else to mess with it. Water is the least-flavoured liquid, but how to do it? How to do it? I had to find the science to create what I wanted and it was very difficult.'

...

I take a small bite. At first I am not sure what to think. It doesn't taste like chocolate. It tastes like, well, nothing I've ever tasted before. At first a burst of passion fruit passes across my tongue.

'Passion fruit!' Allsop says excitedly. 'Can you taste it?' But just as I've picked up on the flavour, suddenly it's as if I've taken a gulp of coffee.

'It's coffee!' I say in amazement. 'It's not passion fruit any more. It's coffee!' Then I taste chocolate and, finally, something more buttery. I am absolutely flabbergasted.

...

Before I leave, I try more chocolates - pear and anise, olive oil, olive oil with aged balsamic dripped on to it, lemon verbena, an acid yoghurt with a pistachio inside, salty liquorice, one tasting of the local Rebellion Beer and the purest mint I have ever tasted, as if someone had plucked it from my garden. They are all exquisite. ...

I ask him why his chocolates taste so fantastic.

'Because I understand how your tongue receives flavours. I choose where to put a certain flavour so that you can have a conversation in your head about that chocolate.'

'But how do you make them? I ask him, slightly desperately.

He touches his finger to his nose.

'I will never tell,' he says smiling. 'Never.'

Edited November 18, 2008 by dougal (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I honestly don't know if it might be any help to anyone (he says he won't tell) but there was a piece about Damian Allsop (and water) in last weekend's Observer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...16/foodanddrink

Edited to get the name spelling right!

←

An interesting read!

[John DePaula]

I honestly don't know if it might be any help to anyone (he says he won't tell) but there was a piece about Damian Allsop (and water) in last weekend's Observer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200...16/foodanddrink

Edited to get the name spelling right!

←

An interesting read!

←

Very! Wonder what kind of shelf life he gets. Can't be much more than 5 days...

[Art]

I'm in London right now (for the Academy of Chocolate Awards on Tuesday night), and yesterday, I met with Damien Allsop who is famous here for his water ganaches.

I have to say, they are absolutely wonderful.

The texture is perfect. The ganache is fairly stiff but very smooth and creamy. His flavors are perfectly balanced. This was especially noticeable when compared to chocolates that I purchased on Friday from another well known chocolatier / chocolate house. Their flavors tended to be either too strong or too mild with perhaps 20% being spot on. Damien's by contrast were all perfectly balanced and really highlighted the chocolate being used. We traded chocolate and as I write this, I'm truly enjoying another piece. ;-)

The flavors in his sampler box are:

* Raspberry

* Olive Oil

* Peanut Crunch

* Salty Licorice

* Pear Aniseed

* Basil Leaf

Damien is a really nice guy to boot. It is going to be really exciting to see what he is able to come up with as his business grows. (Right now, he has no storefront and wholesales his chocolates to a number of hotels and restaurants.)

I've made water ganache truffles at home and have really been pleased with the results. However, seeing what can be achieved when someone has spent lots of time with it and truly knows what they are doing has been a real eye opener. I'm definitely going to have to spend more time experimenting with water ganches. (When I can find time that is.)

Later today, I'll be meeting with William Curley who won the Academy of Chocolate's award for the best truffles. He has won numerous years in a row. I haven't tried his chocolates yet and after hearing such wonderful things for all these years, I'm really excited to do so.

-Art