Pacojet or ice cream maker ?

[chefadamg]

Hello everyone:

Looking for opinions on a Pacojet. I work as a private chef (for a couple in NYC) I'm in the market for a high end counter top ice cream maker...then I thought "how about a pacojet"?? Does the Pacojet work for ice cream? (I'm assuming it doesn't)

The other question I have w/ regards to the Pacojet, is it easy to use for large parties? i.e. if I have a dinner party of 20, can I easily turn out a sorbet course?

I have a feeling the best choice would be, to have both a high end ice cream maker AND a Pacojet?

[nightscotsman]

In the restaurants I've worked we had both and generally used both for ice cream and sorbets (spin in ice cream machine, freeze in paco containers, and respin in paco at service for texture). That said, if I were only getting one I would pass on the paco, especially if you need to do larger batches and may not have access to a very cold freezer.

[Gabriel Lewis]

I don't have any direct experience with a pacojet myself, but I have spoken to cooks in other restaurants who use one. From what I've read/heard that understand I've come to have is that the major difference between it and a regular ice cream maker is that the technology allows for a major change in ingredient proportions.

For example, if you go to their website you'll see them advertise about making pineapple sorbet with just pineapple. Supposedly, all you have to do is cut up the pineapple, freeze it for atleast 24 hours at -20 F and then "pacojet" at which point it is ready to serve or go into storage into a slightly warmer (-10F) freezer until one is ready to serve.

According to their website, high-speed (2000rpm) razor sharp blades shave a layer off the material in a frozen state, producing a very "creamy, finely textured end product". It does indeed work for ice cream, supposedly very well. But the recipes are not the same, if you look at some of the sample recipes they call for much less cream or fat than normal ice cream. At one restaurant I know of where they have a pacojet they use only a plain creme anglaise base, supposedly if they use extra cream the ice cream ends up with a too thin consistency after "pacojetting".

There is a lot of info online, I suggest you google pacojet and browse. If you do end up getting one I would love to hear about your experiences with it! We might get one sometime nextyear and I am really excited about it. It sounds like such a phenonmenal product that would be tons of fun to play around with.

Oh and I wouldn't imagine you'd have any trouble serving a party of 20, it takes only 20 seconds to pacojet a 700g portion of frozen base that is then ready to serve, you would need only to prep in advance.

[UnConundrum]

I have a paco jet, and love it. It gives you far more flexibility than an ice cream maker. Assuming you have freezer space to keep several containers, your options grow. For example, if you keep some vanilla base frozen, you can make strawberry ice cream by simply throwing in some fresh strawberries on top of the frozen base, and process. Instant strawberry ice cream. I've frozen snickers in a chocolate base with great results... the options are rather limitless, and it's always on hand if you tend to your frozen supply of base.

You can also use the paco jet for other things. For example, I pack a container with peeled horseradish root, and top off with a vinegar solution. Any time I want some ground horseradish, I just process one serving. I have another container with caramelized onions. I just process a serving to make a "butter" I can spread on bruschette, or add to a soup in enhance the flavor.

[stscam]

We added a Paco early in the summer to complement our Taylor 104 batch freezer. We ended up using the Taylor mainly for cream-based product, and the Paco mainly for fruit-based sorbet.

The advantage of the Paco is its great flexibility. You can make sorbets, ice creams, sauce bases, all sorts of stuff. We bought 16 extra beakers, so we could offer a wider variety of flavors. Each one holds about a litre; typically we made up a two-beaker batch which would give us about 20 x 2oz portions. Three beakers would certainly provide enough and then some for the 20 guest dinner you described.

One downside is that you have to plan in advance because it's critical that you freeze the beakers for 24 hours to ensure that the mass is consistently frozen. I like the idea of having a custard base already frozen to which you could throw in fruit - et voila, instant glace. Not sure that technique would work with a sugar syrup for sorbets though.

We like our Paco well enough, but it hasn't been paying off for us. Most people prefer "real" ice cream hand dipped from our display freezer. So I'm not sure we'll keep the Pacojet. In our environment it has to pay its way or else we'll sell it off. C'est la guerre.

But bottom line on your question though, is that yes, with a good supply of beakers, a decent freezer and planning ahead, a Pacojet would be a great addition to your kitchen.

Cheers,

Steve

[schneich]

if your budget is tight you could easily go for both, there is a pacojet "copycat" system called frixair made by nemox. nemox produces icecreammakers from tiny ones for 30$ up to double cylinder with a 6,4 litre capacity for 2500 euros. their frixair system is great just like the pacojet, and costs only 1600 euros. i know a small artisanal ice producer who uses their icemakers and is totally happy with it...

Nemox Dealer

cheers

t.

Edited October 15, 2006 by schneich (log)

[edsel]

The Frix-Air is available in the U.S. from J. B. Prince. I was wondering whether it was really comparable to the Paco Jet. I'd love to hear from someone who has worked with both.

Also, is there a small freezer (suitable for home use) that gets cold enough to prep the ingredients? The Paco Jet site says you need a freezer that goes to -20°C (-4°F). Do regular domestic freezers get that cold?

[stscam]

Also, is there a small freezer (suitable for home use) that gets cold enough to prep the ingredients? The Paco Jet site says you need a freezer that goes to -20°C (-4°F). Do regular domestic freezers get that cold?

←

We bought a small Haier dual-zone chest freezer from walmart.com for about $200 plus shipping. The upper compartment will hold about a dozen Paco beakers. And it certainly gets cold enough. We have two digital probe freezer thermometers continuosly reading the inside temp. One hangs in the air, the other is frozen into a cup of water. This way we get a good accurate temp. It took a couple of weeks of fooling around, but we were able to set the Haier to operate in the -3F to -9F range very consistently.

Cheers,

Steve

[edsel]

Thanks for the info on the dual-zone freezer, Steve.

I've done some more snooping around and found a PDF Brochure on the frix-air. It appears to operate on the same principal as the Pacojet, with one interesting difference:

The silicone packing seals the container while a pump supplies air at a pressure of about 2 bar.

I wonder how noisy it is, having a compressor in addition to the cutting blade motor.

[Lieuwe]

Ok, I know. I’m responding to a 17 year old topic… But it’s the only one mentioning Nemox’s Frixair. 
 

A few years ago I bought a Nemox 3000Pro. Makes great ice cream, but sometimes just too much. Then I ran into the paco, frix and ninja creami. 
Paco: great, but too expensive as it is still sailing the patent-waves;

Frix: great, cheaper.  But still way too expensive;

Ninja: great, but don’t trust the reviews. Still, for €220 a reasonable option and if it breaks down… no crying about that.

 

But sometimes miracles happen… This person bought it privately years ago, but had no need for it anymore. So, last thursday I picked up a Frix with 40 bekers. Handed over €400 and left smiling.

 

 

[Kerry Beal]

4 hours ago, Lieuwe said:

Ok, I know. I’m responding to a 17 year old topic… But it’s the only one mentioning Nemox’s Frixair. 
 

A few years ago I bought a Nemox 3000Pro. Makes great ice cream, but sometimes just too much. Then I ran into the paco, frix and ninja creami. 
Paco: great, but too expensive as it is still sailing the patent-waves;

Frix: great, cheaper.  But still way too expensive;

Ninja: great, but don’t trust the reviews. Still, for €220 a reasonable option and if it breaks down… no crying about that.

 

But sometimes miracles happen… This person bought it privately years ago, but had no need for it anymore. So, last thursday I picked up a Frix with 40 bekers. Handed over €400 and left smiling.

 

 

I’ll bet you did! Nice score.

[Lieuwe]

Did my first run with the Frix yesterday and my initial thoughts were:”I can sell my icecream machine”.

 

It may not go as fast as the Paco and can’t make as much at the same time, but, as I’m using this as a private person, it is ideal for me. It is less hassle than the normal one and portions are ideal. 
 

Yes, the paco can make portions. But I need to take out a loan to get some more bekers. The 40 which I have now will suit me well and great for parties. And with 18kg, more portable than the 34kg paco.

[Lieuwe]

On 10/20/2006 at 11:57 PM, edsel said:

Thanks for the info on the dual-zone freezer, Steve.

I've done some more snooping around and found a PDF Brochure on the frix-air. It appears to operate on the same principal as the Pacojet, with one interesting difference:

I wonder how noisy it is, having a compressor in addition to the cutting blade motor.

Less than I expected. The door conceals most of the noise and if you put it on a solid structure, vibrations will also be less. Let’s just say that I could have a normal conversation while it was doing its thing. And the compressor… the beker is only 300ml and you can fill it up to 150ml. Getting a beker of that size and content up to 2 bar, doesn’t take a lot of effort. I couldn’t hear it.

[sverreef]

Congratulations on the new machine

 

I'm happy with the Creami so far, but I wouldn't rule out a possible upgrade in the future, so I'm looking forward to read more about your experience with the Frix Air.

 

Does the small beaker size affect the ability to make quenelles/rochers?

 

Also, does it leave unprocessed ice crystals along the side and bottom of the beaker? That's my main complaint regarding the Ninja Creami...

 

Is the overpressure feature adjustable, so you can turn it down or up if you want a denser or lighter texture? Some sites claim 0.5 bar overpressure, while others claim 2 bars by the way. Can you elaborate on this?

[paulraphael]

On 10/15/2006 at 12:41 PM, edsel said:

Also, is there a small freezer (suitable for home use) that gets cold enough to prep the ingredients? The Paco Jet site says you need a freezer that goes to -20°C (-4°F). Do regular domestic freezers get that cold?

Most freezers should get that cold. That's the temperature I keep my freezer and it's not a fancy one.

[paulraphael]

One thought: if you're mostly making ice creams and sorbets with a Paco Jet, you get most of its advantages if you serve right after processing. While you can certainly make ice cream ahead of time to store in the freezer, you'll then have to formulate your recipes much more like conventional ones, in order to preserve the texture. You won't be able to do magic tricks like making a sorbet out of 100% fruit unless you're serving it immediately. 

[Lieuwe]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:31 PM, sverreef said:

Congratulations on the new machine

 

I'm happy with the Creami so far, but I wouldn't rule out a possible upgrade in the future, so I'm looking forward to read more about your experience with the Frix Air.

 

Does the small beaker size affect the ability to make quenelles/rochers?

 

Also, does it leave unprocessed ice crystals along the side and bottom of the beaker? That's my main complaint regarding the Ninja Creami...

 

Is the overpressure feature adjustable, so you can turn it down or up if you want a denser or lighter texture? Some sites claim 0.5 bar overpressure, while others claim 2 bars by the way. Can you elaborate on this?

Well, although the beker is a “bit” smaller, I’ve got 40 of them. So, quenelles shouldn’t be a problem. And I’m planning to fill all 40 with different ingredients and see what happens.

 

The ice crystals I only noticed when you don’t freeze the beker fast enough or if you give the content chance to settle back.

 

This machine can and and will only do two bar. 

[Lieuwe]

On 1/25/2023 at 12:38 AM, paulraphael said:

One thought: if you're mostly making ice creams and sorbets with a Paco Jet, you get most of its advantages if you serve right after processing. While you can certainly make ice cream ahead of time to store in the freezer, you'll then have to formulate your recipes much more like conventional ones, in order to preserve the texture. You won't be able to do magic tricks like making a sorbet out of 100% fruit unless you're serving it immediately. 

And that’s why I like the frix. Small bekers, controlled quantities.

[paulraphael]

Here's a Paco vs. Ninja comparison at Modernist Pantry.