Ice Water Cakes

[RodneyCk]

I was hoping someone could help me find an answer to a cake question. I have come across a few recipes for cakes that call for ice water as their liquid. Most of them use the traditional creaming method, in the end alternating dry ingredients with ice water.

My best guess is that it seizes up the butter/fat and helps protect the flour from forming gluten. Does anyone know if this is correct?

[Luckylies]

The ice water (vs. say, warm water) is to prevent the butter from melting into the flour, which would creat a less flaky crust, it also adds moisture. I'm not sure about the gluten development thing, but I'm pretty sure that has to do with how much you work the dough.

Edited June 21, 2006 by Luckylies (log)

[RodneyCk]

Thanks for the reply. Well, now I am really confused, lol.

I was under the impression that you wanted the butter and flour to mix. Whenever I add the flour in thirds and the liquid in two parts, I add a good portion of the flour in the first addition, usually 2/3 of it. The reason is that the butter (fat) combines with more of the flour initially and protects it from the liquid, thus lesser chance of gluten forming through beating. This method was brought to my attention by Alton Brown and Shirley O Corriher, author of Cookwise.

So, I was thinking that maybe the icy water also seized the butter/flour mixture to further protect it from combining with the liquid quickly, interesting, this science business, lol.

Edited June 21, 2006 by RodneyCk (log)

[Kerry Beal]

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but one of you is talking about cake, the other about pastry. Hence the confusion I suspect.

[dejaq]

Ice water is used to regulate batter temp(final), nothing more, nothing less...

M

[RodneyCk]

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but one of you is talking about cake, the other about pastry.  Hence the confusion I suspect.

←

Actually, cake mixing and pastry mixing share similar techniques. In fact, one of my favorite methods of making yellow and white cake recipes is using the pastry method, where flour and butter is mixed first to form the pea-sized pieces, and then the liquid is added.

The reason is the same as I mentioned above. The fat is protecting the flour from forming gluten and results in a tender, light and fluffy crumb. In pastries you get a tender, flakey crust.

[RodneyCk]

Ice water is used to regulate batter temp(final), nothing more, nothing less...

M

←

I don't understand this. Usually everything should be at room temperature in a recipe, so why would you want it to turn icy cold? Also, what in the recipe besides the cold water changes the temperature that it needs regulating?

[dejaq]

"Most of them use the traditional creaming method, in the end alternating dry ingredients with ice water."

you said it yourself, I calcs are use to regulate final batter temperature, to come up with a target temp of let's say 68F.

remember you may be working in a kitchen that is hotter than Dante's Inferno, there is a way to compensate for this, a batter "can be too warm", with deleterious consequences...especially with hydrogenated fats made with mono and di's.

M

[RodneyCk]

dejaq, it appears we are both correct in our theories. I posted this question on Sarah Phillip's forum, baking911, and she replied with this answer;

Thanks for posting the recipe. Now I see...When ice water is used in pie crust making, the cold retards gluten formation, keeping the crust tender. http://www.baking911.com/pies_tarts/101_ingredients.htm I suppose the same can be applied to your cold water cake recipe. Your particular recipe uses all-purpose flour, a higher gluten flour, and not cake flour, a lower gluten one. The recipe also has an absence of milk or fat and milk proteins. Fat also prevents gluten formation. http://www.baking911.com/cakes/101ingredients.htm So, this technique may work to help keep excess gluten from forming in the cake in the absence of both....

Your recipe uses shortening. If you were using butter, you don't want the fat in the recipe warmed by the added liquid because it releases its water content when it melts. (Butter is 81 % fat, with the rest being solids and liquid). The extra moisture moistens the flour, developing too much gluten, making the pastry tough. And, your theory makes sense, too.

Thanks for your help.

[Sugarella]

Now see I always though the ice water had something to do with causing the leaveners to give a higher rise, same theory as using icewater in Japanese tempura batter. Shows you what I know ... (er, don't know)

[RodneyCk]

Actually Sugarella you may not be far off. At first that was Sarah's hunch, that the water played a role with the leavening. Unfortunately, there is not much I can find on the subject. The complete answer is probably buried with Julia, lol.

Also, I did notice on my never-ending search that a lot of Japanese batter recipes kept popping up, lol.