I wanna grow stuff!

[tryska]

Ok - there is some sort of green need that I have to fulfill, so I am exploring the world of container gardening.

I understand there are several fruits and vegetables I can grow in pots.

I've got a decent porch as far as room goes, and a great mix of direct sun, partial shade, and full shade that I can work with. I'm in Zone 7 (Georgia).

Right now, and I know i'm starting late, but this is an experiment my fantasy container garden will ahve the following:

A gardenia plant. (non edible as far as I know, but it smells really nice)

Tomatoes - I'm thinking about a tumbling tom, but we can get some throughly random high winds around here, so i'm not entirely sure about hanging anything. So it might be one of the patio tomatoes instead.

Strawberries - in a strawberry jar.

Radishes - preferably white finger radishes.

Salad greens - not sure which.

Garlic would be cool, and an onion of some sort - maybe green onions.

Cilantro, thyme, and possibly mint - these are herbs i use often, but not in large enough quantities.

I'm also thinking of zucchinis, and possible a chili, but i fear a chili would be too prolific.

I would love to grow a patio watermelon if such a thing is possible, and eventually i would like a year round garden, with plant rotations and all of that.

Does anyone have any experience with this? Thoughts, suggestions, etc?

[Jaymes]

I think we've had other threads about container gardening (because I recall having typed out much of this before), so you might want to do a search...

But here are some of my experiences:

I lived in a condo in Texas with a small balcony facing west. I had a very active garden out there. The first year, I grew two patio tomatoes and, having had great luck, the next year, tried a regular, large variety. I think they were Early Girl, or some other such regular-sized tomatoes. I planted them two to one large cooler, and they worked just fine.

One thing I learned about tomatoes. Everybody says that they stop setting when the temperature reaches 90 (or something like that). Mine stopped setting pretty early, so I consulted a friend that's a master gardener. He told me that it's not when the ambient temperature reaches 90; but rather, when the temperature of the roots reach 90, so that the key is to keep the roots cool as long as possible. When you've planted your tomatoes in the ground, one way you do that is to water not so often, but very very deeply, so that the roots go down as far as possible, and keep the topsoil well mulched, thereby keeping the roots cooler.

In my case, I had my tomato plants in those black plastic pots from the nursery, so, on my western-facing balcony in Texas, the sun was baking that black plastic and everything in it, and my plants stopped setting long before everybody else's.

I tried to think what to do, and somehow had a brilliant inspiration.

I went to the store and got some of those large, cheap white styrofoam coolers. Turned them upside down, took a screwdriver and poked some drainage holes, and planted my tomatoes in those, using the lids as drainage trays.

To my utter amazement, not only did my tomatoes begin setting again, but that row of white styrofoam coolers even looked good. I'd thought they would look really 'poor white trashy,' but instead they looked kind of like expensive concrete planters. (Well, except for the one that said "Bud Light," which I quickly got rid of.)

I didn't have a magnolia tree, but I had a Meyer's Lemon, which I put in a very large pot. It looked terrific there, very Mediterranean, and gave me lots of lemons. So I'd think if you got a nice big tree pot, your magnolia would do good as well.

Other things I had terrific luck with were herbs, chives, cucumbers, squash, jalapenos, green peppers (the thing to do with these is only buy ONE plant because they ARE prolific, and you won't need more than one, but do get at least one because they are pretty, and easy, and bear lots, and it's encouraging, if nothing else).

I did strawberries in a strawberry pot, and my advice there is to get a really large one. I had two small ones and although they did work and I got lots of strawberries, would be much less hassle with one large one. Had decided to do that next year, but then I moved.

My thinking on the 'salad greens' is that it depends upon what you're talking about. If it's lettuce, it might not grow well because of the heat in Georgia. In Texas anyway, it's a fall and winter plant, as I finally had to admit. And also, heads of lettuce take up a lot of space, and you eat a lot of them. I gave up on that and wouldn't advise it.

One thing I would remind you is the importance of feeding the plants. When they're in pots, the water leaches the nutrients from the soil pretty quickly.

Although frankly, overall I really found very few limits on what I could grow in my little garden in the sky. I bought some books, and tried whatever hit my fancy.

And, especially after I got on to the styrofoam cooler thing, I had terrific luck, and enjoyed it immensely.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[tryska]

I *LOVE* the styrofoam cooler idea.

I was thinking about Meyer Lemons as well - because they are such pretty trees - do you think i can grow them here in Georgia? I think we're a zone off.

I will also look for other threads on this - i'm such a goof - cuz i totally didn't search beforehand.

here's one question that i've been trying to figure out, and i'm still waiting on the Library to send me the book i need.

I know that drainage is important - and i live on the second floor with someone's patio below mine -

When the plants drain how much water am i looking at dealing with?) is it soemthing that my neighbors would complain about (there is space between the planks of my patio). Or would i be better off with drainage trays under everything (like with your coolers?)

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

All the things you mention can be successfully grown in containers! Just be warned... you may very well become addicted to gardening and find yourself digging up your yard to grow even more!

If you're worried about wind, and can't place your tomato plants behind some sort of break, I'd advise a compact bush variety. Try Baxter's Early Bush Red, if you're not averse to a cherry tomato. They're an early variety, which is desirable if you are planting late. They're pretty, too... orangey red... and keep well. When I was given seed for these for the first time, the packaging said the fruits would keep for a month in the fridge. I never managed to test that thoroughly, since we ate them about as fast as they matured, but I saw no significant deterioration in a few that stayed in my chiller drawer for over two weeks. Other good bets are Bush Early Girl and, if you like variety, try to find Carbon seeds or plants; they're interesting looking dark brownish tomatoes that make wonderful sauce.

Garlic and onions are fun to grow, although I've never tried them in containers. Just realize that you need to plant them in the fall and let them overwinter before you wind up with anything edible.

Chilis can be prolific, but they're fun, easy, and beautiful. I've almost always had a Tabasco pepper plant growing in either (or) my garden & in pots. If you can't use them all up, dry them and string them, and you will have a way to make special gifts for your friends & family. You can also grow chiles to make homemade salsa or picante sauce, if you have an inclination to can things, and these also make nifty gifts.

Cilantro can be tricky to grow. My thumbs have always been instinctively green, but there have been difficulties with this one herb. The plants flower quickly, so you have to harvest right on time and often, but the plants are pretty and smell wonderful. Mint is so easy to grow it's dangerous; the first year I decided to plant an herb garden, it took over not only my whole plot, but my whole *yard* the second year, and I had a devil of a time controlling it! Sure did smell nice, of course. There are some fun varieties of mint, too... my brother's favorite was the chocolate mint, which smelled just like a York Peppermint Patty!

Another good herb to grow in containers is rosemary. There's nothing quite like fresh rosemary in Italian red sauces, and it's my family's favorite flavoring for meat gravy. I once was bounced by my (rather large) dog while adding rosemary to a gravy pot, accidentally putting in about four times as much as I'd planned to, and it was instantly regarded as "right" by the whole household! If your plant gets large enough, you may be rewarded with a beautiful, naturally spiralling woody stalk that can have interesting uses if you're a crafty sort.

Last year I tried for the first time something that was suggested to me by folks on a gardening e-list: growing certain vining plants vertically. Mine weren't in containers, but I'm sure you could figure out a way to do it. I built a trellis and grew canteloupe, summer squash, zucchini, and butternut squashes running up it. Just be sure to tie up the vines carefully as they grow. In the garden, there were lots of advantages -- they took up far less room, were perfectly shaped since they weren't sitting on the ground, and I had no instances of any sort of rot. (And, in my particular case, these plants were left alone by the deer that ate virtually everything else in the entire garden that wasn't on that big trellis!) If you want to do watermelon like this, I'd suggest finding a small variety, of course, and making sure your trellising or supports are very sturdy, but I don't see why you couldn't manage it. My canteloupes were huge, and my butternuts weren't exactly puny, either. The flowers of these plants are so pretty that I think they'd be beautiful grown up along a deck or patio or whatever, too!

I hope you decide to try this... there's nothing quite like growing your own food, no matter if it's on the balcony of a small apartment or in a huge garden plot! If you're new to the whole thing, there are tons of good books and even websites... I can recommend a few if you're interested... and if you ever have any specific questions, please feel free to ask me, and I'll help all I can. Most gardeners are more than willing to do so... it's such a passion that we always love to share it with others.

Have fun!

[Jaymes]

I *LOVE* the styrofoam cooler idea.

I was thinking about Meyer Lemons as well - because they are such pretty trees - do you think i can grow them here in Georgia?  I think we're a zone off.

I will also look for other threads on this - i'm such a goof - cuz i totally didn't search beforehand.

here's one question that i've been trying to figure out, and i'm still waiting on the Library to send me the book i need.

I know that drainage is important - and i live on the second floor with someone's patio below mine -

When the plants drain how much water am i looking at dealing with?)  is it soemthing that my neighbors would complain about (there is space between the planks of my patio).  Or would i be better off with drainage trays under everything (like with your coolers?)

←

Put drainage trays under everything and you should have no problems whatsoever with the water draining down to your neighbors. My plants were on a wooden deck, and I didn't want the water rotting the wood, so I was very careful with the drainage. Trays solve your problem. Not to mention that they trap the water, which the plant then sucks back up, so you don't have to water so often. If you don't have drainage trays, you'll have to water at least every day, and maybe more than once per day in the middle of the summer. You DEFINITELY need drainage trays.

Meyers Lemon trees will grow practically anywhere. Read somewhere that Martha had four of them on her patio at Turkey Farm, or Creek, or Run, or Trot, or whatever she called that place. The only thing is that if it gets too cold in the winter -- if you're going to have a freeze or something -- you can either roll them inside like Miss Martha said she did (into her greenhouse...you DO have a greenhouse, right?), or cover them, which is what I did when Texas had a hard freeze.

Do not let that stop you.

If you'd like a Meyer's Lemon, and you should, definitely get one. They're actually fairly freeze-hardy, and you'll have no trouble.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[Jaymes]

Just read Sunny's post and had a couple of thoughts...

First, Sunny, don't know where you are, but my own experience with cilantro was that it did fine in the spring and fall in Texas, but just burned up in our hot summers. I finally gave up on it. I don't think she'd be able to keep it going in Georgia, either. And that's funny because I used to live in Panama, and it grew wild there. But even though Panama is in the tropics, it never got hotter than about 91 or 92 degrees, whereas Texas routinely hits 100 in the summers.

And I agree wholeheartedly about the rosemary. Grows well, smells wonderful, and is very useful. In fact, I sometimes break off a small twig and leave it in my car just for the aroma.

And ALWAYS have had a pot of mint. Even when I had a yard, had a pot of mint right by the back door. Usually several varieties. Even if you have a yard, it's better to grow mint in a pot because it'll take over any yard. And you can't kill the stuff, either. The roots send out underground runners which are all capable of growing more mint that sends out more underground runners. Even if you start pulling it up, you'll leave one or two small bits of root that grow more plants that grow more roots. If you MUST plant it in your yard, first bury some sort of deep border that you plant the mint inside of.

Or, much easier, just put it in a pot. And keep an eye out for the roots that inevitably will come sneaking out of the bottom drainage holes when you're not looking. Just keep pinching those buggers off.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[tryska]

Thanks Sunny! excellent info - I'm familiar with the proeprties of both Cilantro and Mint as my mother has grown both - That's kind of why i'm hesitant about the mint. iirc - cilantro has to be reseeded once it has flowered right? (i suppose i could ask my mom - since she's patio gardening that in Florida now)

here is the patio tomato I was thinking of:

http://www.burpee.com/shopping/product/det...iSubSubCat=2187

I really like the tumbling toms too - but like i said i'm wary about hanging plants because there really is no way to protect it as it stands now. Unless i shelter it under the stairs on the side, but then it gets full shade.

The trellis idea for vines is intriguing - I might be able to do that with my railings, or soem other sort of trellis, but i'm nto sure about my complex by-laws...

do you know of anyone who has experience witht he Bush varieties of watermelon? i was thinking of a Bush Sugar Baby - apparently the vines grow only about 3 ft...that's something i could do with my ex's old Marine Corps foot locker - if i can get the drainage right. it's out on the porch housing spiders as it is.

[Jaymes]

More thoughts on drainage trays --

Get the biggest ones you can find -- like the great big round ones that go under the biggest 'tree size' pots -- and group several smaller pots in them. That works much, much better than having just one for every small pot. The groupings look good, and you can scoot things up closely. Also, the one big drainage tray holds more water, and the plants can suck up the water according to their own needs. And it makes watering much easier, too. And you don't have all those smaller trays of varying sizes to worry with.

[tryska]

oh another question I had - (i'm wiating on the book "Bountiful Container" as we speak and it will probably answer this)

what are the rules in combining plants in pots? like can i have a bush tomato, radish, and a head of lettuce (apropriate to my weather of course) growing in the same pot?

Rosemary and Thyme? green onions and garlic?

[Jaymes]

oh another question I had - (i'm wiating on the book "Bountiful Container" as we speak and it will probably answer this)

what are the rules in combining plants in pots?  like can i have a bush tomato, radish, and a head of lettuce (apropriate to my weather of course) growing in the same pot?

Rosemary and Thyme?  green onions and garlic?

The books are good guides to that, but I always had one big herb pot with thyme, oregano and chives. You need to be sure that the plants require the same kind of soil -- sandy or not, alkaline or not, etc. -- and the same kinds of fertilizer. And also that they are compatible in other ways, like one of them not being too agressive, like mint, because they'll just strangle something less agressive.

And make sure about the sun requirements -- you can't plant something that needs full sun under something bushy and fast-growing, like tomatoes.

[Jaymes]

I really like the tumbling toms too - but like i said i'm wary about hanging plants because there really is no way to protect it as it stands now.  Unless i shelter it under the stairs on the side, but then it gets full shade.

Tomatoes require full sun, so don't shade them. Get some of those 'tomato cages' and stick them right into the dirt in your coolers. They'll grow up inside the cage, and you'll be just fine.

They make several varieties. Look for some at your local nursery, or order some from these nice folks: Vegetable and tomato cages.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

Just read Sunny's post and had a couple of thoughts...

First, Sunny, don't know where you are, but my own experience with cilantro was that it did fine in the spring and fall in Texas, but just burned up in our hot summers.

Aha.. that might explain why this past year was the first time I've had a really good experience with growing cilantro. I now live in south-central Virginia, in the foothills of the Blue Ridge Mountains, and when they complain here about heat & humidity, my family & I kinda snigger and roll our eyes, having moved here from Memphis, which has the same climate as, say, New Orleans or Houston. On the other hand, it's disorienting, having to wait so long to plant, as our last frost date is so much later here!

Good to know.. thanks!

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

what are the rules in combining plants in pots?

<a href="http://www.gardenguides.com/TipsandTechniques/vcomp.htm">Garden Guides.com</a> has some, well, guides for companion planting that you can peruse until your book gets there, as well as a lot of other fun stuff. Depending on where you live, or, perhaps more correctly, how agricultural your area is, you might try contacting your Extension Office. Sometimes the agents are unbelievably helpful, even in urban areas... when I lived in Memphis, we had an agent come out and show us how to test our soil, gave us tons of good information, and even dropped by mid-season to see how things were going. And the best part is, the extension agents know things that are specific to your region.

[tryska]

thanks for the link to garden guides, Sunny - I will check it out.

jaymes - I saw in one of the old threads that you had (have?) a container fig tree - how did that work out for you? I would love a fig tree, but i was worreid it would be too big.

lastly - do y'all have any thoughts on composting? is that soemthing i can do on my patio? perhaps under the stairs?

[Jaymes]

The fig tree worked out okay. It looked great, and it did get figs, but most of them fell off before they reached maturity. Had a feeling it might have been because the variety I tried wasn't quite right for the climate. Decided that I'd try it again another time, but research the variety a little more thoroughly.

It was big, true, but looked wonderful. They're deciduous, you know, and it was fun watching it leaf back out every spring. I did cut it back so that it wouldn't take over the entire balcony. I reckon you could do it if you have room but suggest that you discuss which variety would be best for your area with your county agent, as Sunny recommends.

I also tried artichokes. It looked gorgeous when I first planted it -- in one of those big barrel halves. And I even got two small artichokes. But, eventually it didn't work out. Waaaaay too hot.

Don't live there anymore. I'm in southwestern Missouri helping to care for my elderly parents, so no time for any gardening. But I did love it, and am certain I'll get back into it as soon as my life returns to normal.

Edited May 31, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[Sunny Simmons Steincamp]

lastly - do y'all have any thoughts on composting?  is that soemthing i can do on my patio?  perhaps under the stairs?

You can buy small composters that can actually go indoors. Do you have a Plow & Hearth store near you? I've seen them there, although they're kinda pricey. A place like Lowe's or Home Depot with a big garden center might carry them, as well. I have a friend who has a barrel composter that, while is in her yard, would fit in a big closet or, as you said, under a stairway.

Also, I know Jaymes answered this for you already, but I have to tell you that I just planted my first fig tree. I grew up with figs at my grandmother's, and I positively *adore* them... and the trees... but have never had one of my own. I was worried that it was too cold here, at first. I mean, I think I saw more snow in the first year of living in Virginia (and that was in Richmond, before we moved closer to the mountains) than I did my entire life before, having lived in Memphis, Birmingham, and central Florida! Before I found out that I *could* grow fig trees here, I was told by several people that they can do well in containers, so I'd give it a shot anyway, if you can protect it from the heat, as Jaymes suggested.

[tryska]

So other than the ag extension, is there any web resource for figuring out what varietals are just right for your area? (i'm going to snoop around my department of agriculture site - but i'm wondering about commercial resources.)

I'd really like to find a dwarf fig and give that a shot too. Sunny - you have to let me know how your fig winds up doing.

And i'm definitely going to look into a small composter too. altho maybe that will be a winter project.

I think before i got totally over board, i'm going to get a cooler, and try my hand at some early tomoatoes, and some foolproof herbs.

then i can start planning for future seasons, provided it doesn't turn out that all i've got is a brown wrinkly thumb. ;-)

[lcdm]

A few things I've learned. Don't use regular soil in a container, it hardens to a brick like consistancy. Use potting soil or some kind of growing mix. Some of the mixes have water storing polymers designed to reduce plant waterings (or you can buy them seperatly and mix them in yourself).

I planted a mixed container which included; a habenero pepper, a few basil, some lettuces and a few annuals. It looked very pretty and did well.

Here is a site that has a lot of info about container gardening:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/contain/

and balcony gardening:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/balcony/

Edited May 31, 2006 by lcdm (log)

[Jaymes]

I planted a mixed container which included; a habenero pepper, a few basil, some lettuces and a few annuals. It looked very pretty and did well.

Those sites do indeed look very helpful. I've never planted basil in a mixed container because we use so much of it. Always needed at least one nice big pot with nothing else, and sometimes two. Although I have mixed various types of basil. It's just something we love and we go through it by the handsful.

[Jaymes]

So other than the ag extension, is there any web resource for figuring out what varietals are just right for your area?  (i'm going to snoop around my department of agriculture site - but i'm wondering about commercial resources.) 

If you find a really good nursery, there will always be one or two people working there that know their stuff. You have to cultivate them, though, just like you do a plant. First, you have to sort through all of the college kids and other temps that are just working there for the summer and don't know that much. You have to find somebody that really knows what they're doing. They'll be busy. They will, in fact, be the busiest persons at the nursery. And everyone will be buzzing around them like bees, also wanting information and advice. So you have to be patient and slowly make them your bosom buddy. Once you have, they are invaluable.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Jaymes (log)

[H. du Bois]

I grew fresh herbs in pots on my windowsills one year, and a big planter with tomato plants on my fire escape. All went well until I had an infestation of whitefly, which completely wiped them out (so much for organic window gardening in New York City). Had I stooped to antipest spray earlier, they'd have survived.

The only advice I'd give you is, know your tomato plant - I ignorantly planted beefsteak tomato seeds in a pot, and the plants that came up were bigger than I am. Go for cherry tomatoes.

[Kouign Aman]

Extra peppers not only can be dried, they can be pickled, or used to make chili oil. Lots of fun stuff.

Composting - in an apartment setting, stick to vegetable matter and well washed eggshells. Rotting meats/eggs/dairy stinketh.

[lcdm]

I planted a mixed container which included; a habenero pepper, a few basil, some lettuces and a few annuals. It looked very pretty and did well.

Those sites do indeed look very helpful. I've never planted basil in a mixed container because we use so much of it. Always needed at least one nice big pot with nothing else, and sometimes two. Although I have mixed various types of basil. It's just something we love and we go through it by the handsful.

←

Exactly, you have to know what works for you. I don't use that much basil, so it was OK, same with the habanero. This year I'm fortunate to be able to plant a larger garden and have several types of our favorite; cucumbers, tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, watermelon, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries and on a lark carrots and corn (carrots and corn never really grew very well for my Dad because we have heavy clay soil, but my kids wanted to see). We have also planted some parsley, basil and sunflowers. Hopefully we'll have some luck and get at least some "stuff" off of some of these plants.

[tryska]

I spoke with my roommate last night about the peppers...I just might plant one - even if it winds up being primarily ornamental.

I use very little chili - like maybe one tiny habanero to flavor a curry when I cook one. I do use a lot of dried flakes tho, so perhaps I'll get a nice medium hot variety and we can dry the excess, and make it into chili powder and flakes.

(we've both got nightmares of her boss's chili bonanza a few years back, and we were up to our ears in the stuff.)

Now here's another question - I don't know if i said before that my porch is west-facing, but it's actually east-facing. It's fully covered, but gets direct sun at least until the sun gets overhead.

Will tomatoes deal with having sun until 12 - 1pm, or would i need to put it in the breezeway during the day (un-covered)?

How much sun is full sun, really? perhaps i should pick up a Gardening for Dummies book.

(i got a beer cooler yesterday!)

[memesuze]

tomatoes need at least 6-8 hours of good sun to produce well [full sun is full sun - no shading from trees at all] - and my experience with morning sun is that often morning clouds don't break up until 9.30 or 10 am, which wouldn't give you enough sun time. You should try one just to prove me wrong, but don't spend all your effort on lotsa tomato plants.

Check for a local organic gardeners group, a master gardeners group, and the local county extension agent - they know their stuff.

When using nurseries, go for the non-chain store, local mom-and-pop ones - they're there for the love of the garden, not simply shoe salesmen in disguise.

There's a difference between determinate and indeterminate tomatoes - the former tend to put on one big crop, suitable for canners; the latter produce for months on end, and consequently their vines continue to grow and grow and grow....my Sweet 100 cherries always climbed up out of a six-foot tall wooden frame I built, continued down the outside of the frame and took out after the neighbors

Put your effort into food products you really love, that produce wonderful fruits, and aren't susceptible to bad pests [squash is notorious for instant decline from squash vine borers and squash bugs, and it's so easy to find decent squash at the market, not necessarily the case with tomatoes, Asian eggplants, unusual peppers like pimento, and herbs]