What's a palate?

[Wilfrid]

2 is the hard palate, 4 is the soft palate, and 1 is more or less where olfaction takes place. 3 we like to eat boiled with a nice caper sauce.

[Bux]

Can I just throw in the basic physiology, as usual, because it might help keep things clear:

The hard and soft palate don't have anything to do with taste or smell, although of course they sense heat, texture and what one might call "mouthfeel" or "body"

As the heart really doesn't control our emotions, but we will (cumudgeons exceptied) continue to send out Valentine's Day cards with hearts ..., er, some sort of abstract image we have come to accept as appopriate to express love. Hmm, is there an abstract palate graphic we could use? These graphic anatomical images are interesting, if not appetizing.

The question that comes to mind is why we didn't choose ePalate.com and should we quickly register the name?

[macrosan]

I think 8 is the Temple of Balic's Fruit, unless I am mistaken, but what are 5, 6 and 7, pray ?

[Jinmyo]

3 we like to eat boiled with a nice caper sauce.

Wilfrid, I must admit that my favourite way to have tongue is still in sandwiches with butter and mustard, a little cress.

[Jaymes]

I think 8 is the Temple of Balic's Fruit, unless I am mistaken, but what are 5, 6 and 7, pray ?

I'm no physician, but suspect 6 is what holds the whole mess up there, wobbling about.

[Peter B Wolf]

From the backwoods of Maine a bit of additional commentary and inquiry. Excuse the inarticulate expression of mine.

Is that a genetic inarticulation or one acquired by living in the backwoods of Maine.

My mama told me to watch out for country lawyers and backwood chefs.

Thanks Bux, to keep it funny: It's the "genetic" one, plus I am only a retired Chef, living in the backwoods. I also am glad for not spelling it "backwards". Love your comment(s)

[Jim Dixon]

One thing that affects the notion of 'palate' is that we all perceive 'taste' differently. Some things we can be trained to taste, but the sensitivity to flavor is largely dependent on the density of the flavor receptacles called papillae on each individual tongue.

I found an intersting Scientific American article on taste, but can only see it by accessing Google's cached version here:

article about taste

(I'm not sure if this link will work)

When it comes to the subjective part of palate, I like to say that there's no accounting for taste.

Jim

[Wilfrid]

(T)he sensitivity to flavor is largely dependent on the density of the flavor receptacles called papillae on each individual tongue...

I wonder if there are similar physiological variations between individuals when it comes to olfactory receptors. I shouldn't be surprised.

[Jaymes]

(T)he sensitivity to flavor is largely dependent on the density of the flavor receptacles called papillae on each individual tongue...

I wonder if there are similar physiological variations between individuals when it comes to olfactory receptors. I shouldn't be surprised.

I did a little investigation on Google and discovered, among other things, that men's and women's taste buds differ slightly, with women's being more sensitive and discretionary.

Probably because in the cave days, we gals were busy tasting weeds and leaves and berries and deciding what to take home that wouldn't poison us all, while you big brave guys were off tramping about, talking dirty, scratching yourselves and looking for woolly mammoths to gore.

Ya big lovable lugs ya.

[oraklet]

macrosan,

"is this really true, that women have more refined senses of taste and smell than men ? Or is it an old wives' tale ?"

jaymes seems to agree, and at least she did some research, whereas i simply relied on what i think i've read somewhere...plus experience. but this is not very scientific, i must admit!

[Toby]

Thank you everyone for your considered responses to all my questions; also thanks, Jim Dixon, for the link to the article (too technical for me but I think I got the main idea; I want to read the other linked articles as well). The relation of interrelated taste activity in the brain to color vision was fascinating; it's as if the brain is already deconstructing and recombining what was cooked.

When I was in high school they taught us some very simplified Wittgenstein -- "how do I know that your green is my green?" -- and that was in my mind when I began thinking about palates. If how we taste what we taste is conditioned first by brain activity, then I'd think there'd be broad based consensus in identifying salt, sweet, bitter, sour, umami, but what about flavor (which would be that it tastes good or not?)? Why did certain foods my mother cooked when I was growing up still taste so satisfying to me as an adult even though my mother was a bad cook and I could tell that the food was prepared badly and seasoned not at all?

From what you've all said, it seems like some likes/dislikes are culturally conditioned; others may come from unfamiliarity or from having eaten that food prepared badly or with negative attachments to it. It sounds like you all agreed that these can be overcome with education and exploration, but that for a final answer as to why we just favor or dislike some things, we don't have one.

(I once made a prune galette for a Christmas dinner; the guests included several children and several picky adult eaters. The galette was lovely -- a layered prune pie, in which prunes simmered in sugared water are used as a filling between 3 layers of thinly rolled out egg-butter crust flavored with brandy rolled out very thin, and then topped with a 4th round of the dough. As I was serving it I realized that "prune pie" wasn't going to go over too well, so I announced we were having "dried plum pie" and everyone ate it happily.)

I was a heavy smoker for a long time. Two things happened about 10 days after I quit. I had a dream that I was walking on a beach along the Pacific Ocean. The beach was covered with tiny wildflowers and I could smell them all. I'd never dreamt about a smell before. The second thing was that I'd cooked a roast beef very rare, with sauteed potatoes with garlic and parsley and grilled red and yellow peppers left to steep in olive oil with some thyme. When I bit into the meat, the juices just exploded in my mouth. I was astonished. I'd been smoking since I was 14 and realized I'd never really tasted, as an adult, anything I'd eaten. This intense taste sensation lasted for a few months and then I think I got used to it.

[Jaymes]

Again, Toby, interesting subject. Isn't it funny how something we think we know so well, is really completely unknowable.

Also in my casual research following your question, I discovered that it is believed that children have far fewer taste buds than adults. And as infants, primarily have taste buds sensitive to sweetness, which is, it is thought, required for the urge to drink mother's milk.

And that, as one ages, the taste buds gradually die, resulting in the decreased appetitite (particularly for spicy foods) of the elderly.

[Toby]

And that, as one ages, the taste buds gradually die, resulting in the decreased appetitite (particularly for spicy foods) of the elderly.

I found just the opposite in my father. He claimed to be salt intolerant and never used it and never ate spicy foods, but as he got into his late 80s and on into his 90s, he ate food I cooked that had reasonable amounts of salt and lots of chiles and gobbled it up. I don't think he could taste any of it, and I don't know if this was something going on in his taste buds or brain or both. In any event, the prospects sound dismal.

[Jaymes]

And that, as one ages, the taste buds gradually die, resulting in the decreased appetitite (particularly for spicy foods) of the elderly.

I found just the opposite in my father. He claimed to be salt intolerant and never used it and never ate spicy foods, but as he got into his late 80s and on into his 90s, he ate food I cooked that had reasonable amounts of salt and lots of chiles and gobbled it up. I don't think he could taste any of it, and I don't know if this was something going on in his taste buds or brain or both. In any event, the prospects sound dismal.

Well... on the other hand, it is quite possible that nature is just continuing to take care of us.

We slow down as we age and our bodies need fewer and fewer calories. So, sure enough, taste buds die and we want fewer and fewer.

Frankly, I'm looking forward to it. I'll be much happier loving food much less.

Maybe I can get "into" donning trainers and speed-walking the malls instead of endless quests for ever better patés and cheeses!!

[Rachel Perlow]

There are also skills in combining tastes in effective ways: partnering food and wine, combining flavours, and the like. Again, a lot of this can be learned. Culinary Artistry (Dornenburg and Page) has a long and useful analysis of "what goes with what". They don't say much about "balance" in combinations. They do have a useful discussion of balance and contrast in a menu, as a whole.

Reminder: Andrew Dornenburg and Karen Page are online for an eGullet Q&A right now.