Eastern North Carolina Pulled Pork

[GRITS]

Can someone please help me? I am from Eastern NC and now I live in Miami. I never realized how I much I took for granted all the wonderful things Southern until I moved here. You'd be hard-presed to find good 'cue down here.

Here is my delimma. Last time I was in NC, I bought 6 bottles of tangy Eastern NC vinegar sauce at my local 'cue restaurant. Now I am back in Miami and have tried and failed 4 times of cooking pulled pork.

Can someone here give me a fool-proof recipe on cooking pulled pork in the oven or the crockpot? I mean the whole process. I am determined not to give up.

Thank so much everyone!

[Gifted Gourmet]

instructions .. step-by-step

more recipes for pulled pork ...

epicurious does a version of succulent pulled pork as well

[gwilson]

I haven't personally tried it, but I trust Alton Brown.

-Greg

[GRITS]

Alton Brown is my Culinary God. I did, actually find his recipe for pulled pork on the net earlier today! Gotta love Alton Brown. mmmm..... goodness!! Thank you!

Anyone else have a recipe?

I haven't personally tried it, but I trust Alton Brown.

-Greg

←

[BigHoss]

grits......i've got good news and ive got bad news. me, when someone tells me that, i gotta have tha bad first.....so i hope you dont mind my order, just know that better news follows.

BAD NEWS: Can't (or cain't) cook barbecue in a crockpot or oven!

this isnt a traditionalist trying to be traditional either (welll yeah it kinda is, but not totally!). without going through the whole mcgee/alton brown scientific elplanation, what i can tell you is that using either process you are basically going to have to braise your pork, which is NOT the process of barbecue! just like there is cooking method of braising or roasting so there is a method of barbecue. barbecue is not what you eat.....its the process of HOW it was cooked.

GOOD NEWS: Get a webber grill (kettle shape.....or any other grill really....NO GAS!!!!) and you can cook authentic barbecue! if you read this and respond and want to know how to do it i will be MORE than happy to give you step by step instructions on the process. so PLEASE TELL ME YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU!

anyway....you cant replace the process of really slow heat (wood heat of course) with proper air flow chemically breaking down the collagens/muscle tissues and the process of braising with liquid or the process of roasting in an oven. yes they both taste great and yes i love using a crock pot for a bunch of things, but you ask for AUTHENTIC BARBECUE, so i tell you. there are many, many, many foods/ingredients in southern food culture that speak of who we are. there is NO food in southern culture that so defines who we are as southerners as barbecue. whether its the process, the sauce, the lack of sauce, the choice of meat, whatever. it is who we are.....period. no matter if we know it yet or not.

[Varmint]

BigHoss is spot on. Having made a ton of Eastern-style barbecue (and frankly, we don't call it pulled pork), you do need to slow cook it with hardwood. It can be done, but to be truly authentic, it should be whole hog, rather than just a butt or a ham. That's why it's so hard to find good, authentic Eastern-style barbecue -- few places go to such efforts to cook entire pigs over a wood-fired pit (and by the way, Eastern-style barbecue is usually cooked directly over the radiant heat -- the wood -- rather than an indirect smoking process).

The other distinctive part of Eastern-style barbecue is the sauce. It's really just a simple mixture of vinegar, hot pepper flakes, and some other elements that vary from place to place. This sauce should be used sparingly, so that the flavor of the smokey meat shines through -- the vinegar taste should almost be an afterthought if done correctly.

We're here for you, but you're looking at quite an endeavor!

[Pyewacket]

As Tarheel expats living in the Barbecue wasteland of New York (yeah, yeah, Blue Smoke, Pearson's, Dinosaur, et al-all somewhat disappointing) we satisfy our 'cue cravings by having a big smoke-out several times a year. We have fine-tuned our recipe for sauce and smoking technique to the point where all our neighbors (and even the firefighters down the street) ask us when the next barbecue will take place. Happily, we are planning on Memorial Day weekend this year.

I thought I'd share our recipe and technique with you. The sauce is really a marriage of eastern and western NC style-a bit of tomato, but tart, vinegary and runny to please the down-east style lovers.

Hope this helps.

Carolina Barbecue Sauce

Makes about 3 quarts

1/2 cup honey

1/3 cup molasses

1 bulb garlic, unpeeled and broken into cloves

2 tablespoons whole cumin seeds

3 tablespoons whole coriander seeds

1 tablespoons whole black peppercorns

8 dried New Mexico chilies

2 dried ancho chilies

2 bay leaves

3 tablespoons tomato paste

2 cans (26 oz.) whole peeled tomatoes, with juice

1 quart apple cider vinegar

4 cups water

1/4 cup salt

In a large stock pot combine the honey, molasses, garlic, cumin, coriander, peppercorns, chilies, and bay leaves. Cook over low heat for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally, until everything is caramelized, but not scorched.

Add the tomato paste and tomatoes and cook for 15 minutes, stirring frequently to break up the tomatoes. Add the vinegar, water, and salt; the sauce will be thin.

Simmer, uncovered for at least 2 hours and up to 4 hours (much better), stirring occasionally. Remove any large pieces of garlic skin and bay leaves. Puree sauce in a blender or food processor. (I like to use a food mill using the smallest sieve-plate.)

Note: This sauce will keep for at least 6 months in the refrigerator, but tends to loose its hot-kick, though the flavors are, otherwise, just fine. It's the perfect combination of the eastern and western North Carolina pork barbecue disciplines. It's great on chicken, turkey, stronger fishes (tuna, salmon, grouper) and beef, but just plain weird with lamb. Goat I have not tried, but who knows?

Scott Howell (the chef at Nana's restaurant) suggests you marinate pork shoulder in 1/3 of the sauce for 2 days, mop the pork as you smoke it with 1/3 and reserve the rest to drizzle over your pulled pork. I find all that is a lot of trouble. It wastes a lot of sauce during the marinating process and leads to tomatoey-tasting pork. If you try to mop the pork during the smoking process, you loose a lot of heat and smoke by constantly removing the lid lengthening the cooking time considerably.

Here's how to smoke Carolina-style barbecue on a Weber kettle grill:

Prepare a brine by dissolving 1 cup of kosher salt in 1 gallon water. Submerge 2 7-8 lb. pork shoulder picnics in the brine, cover with cheesecloth. Allow to soak for about 24 hours, turning occasionally.

Soak 2 cups of hickory chips in water for 30 minutes. Start a slow fire with natural chunk charcoal (DON NOT USE BRIQUETTES!). Pile the chunks on top of several wads of newspaper, then light the paper and allow to burn for 15-20 minutes-never use lighter fluid! When coals are lit, push them to one side of the kettle. Drain and sprinkle half the wood chips on the coals. Place a drip pan with 1" of apple cider, beer, ginger ale or water next to the coals. Attach the grate and arrange the pork shoulder on the opposite side from the coals and above the drip pan. Cover with the lid, adjusting so the smoke hole is above the pork. Maintain the heat at about 200°-210?F (you should be able to hold your hand about 2 inches above the grate for 10 seconds without becoming uncomfortable). You'll need to occasionally add more charcoal and wood chips as the fire burns low. This is the only reason to lift the lid! Smoke in this fashion for about 1-1 1/2 hours per pound of meat until internal temperature reaches 165°-170°F. We usually smoke 2 pork shoulders at a time for about 8-9 hours leaving lots of time for preparing side dishes and drinking long-neck Buds.

When the pork is cooked, tear it from the bone for delicious pulled pork. I also like to chop it gently with the back of a chef's knife to break and separate the threads of meat. Drizzle with sauce, serve with ice-cold slaw and soft, fluffy buns for the true 'cue experience.

Hope you enjoy!

[Lan4Dawg]

grits......i've got good news and ive got bad news.  me, when someone tells me that, i gotta have tha bad first.....so i hope you dont mind my order, just know that better news follows.

BAD NEWS:  Can't (or cain't) cook barbecue in a crockpot or oven!

this isnt a traditionalist trying to be traditional either (welll yeah it kinda is, but not totally!).  without going through the whole mcgee/alton brown scientific elplanation, what i can tell you is that using either process you are basically going to have to braise your pork, which is NOT the process of barbecue!  just like there is cooking method of braising or roasting so there is a method of barbecue.  barbecue is not what you eat.....its the process of HOW it was cooked. 

GOOD NEWS:  Get a webber grill (kettle shape.....or any other grill really....NO GAS!!!!) and you can cook authentic barbecue!  if you read this and respond and want to know how to do it i will be MORE than happy to give you step by step instructions on the process.  so PLEASE TELL ME YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU!

anyway....you cant replace the process of really slow heat (wood heat of course) with proper air flow chemically breaking down the collagens/muscle tissues and the process of braising with liquid or the process of roasting in an oven.  yes they both taste great and yes i love using a crock pot for a bunch of things, but you ask for AUTHENTIC BARBECUE, so i tell you.  there are many, many, many foods/ingredients in southern food culture that speak of who we are.  there is NO food in southern culture that so defines who we are as southerners as barbecue.  whether its the process, the sauce, the lack of sauce, the choice of meat, whatever.  it is who we are.....period.  no matter if we know it yet or not.

←

and the congregation rose as one and said, "Amen!"

[racheld]

And all filed out, singing and blessed, for a big ole Sunday Dinner on the Ground.

[waves2ya]

Low & slow is the way to go (even here in New Jersey )...

Try this site for loads of tips:

Virtual Weber Bullet

Here's to some good Q for you in Miami soon...!

[GRITS]

BigHoss, thank you so much for responding. I know what a Webber Grill is and I shall take your advice. Please excuse the short response as I am typing with one hand due to a broken arm

The only local barbecue place down here serves sauce that taste like an ashtray - I kid you not.. And they call this BBQ and sell it, no less. It is an atrosity beyond belief!

I live in an apartment complex so therefore, I do not really have access to grill for that long a time (low & slow).

I really just wanted to know if it was possible in city standards to cook it in the oven and get some kind of decent results - especially what cut you would use to smoke a small cut of the pork. The Butt seems to have too much fat.

I grew up in NC where I would attend cookouts and pig pickins' regularly - so you can feel my pain here.

Thank you so much for your help. I will have my fiance get us a Webber Cooker ASAP!

grits......i've got good news and ive got bad news.  me, when someone tells me that, i gotta have tha bad first.....so i hope you dont mind my order, just know that better news follows.

BAD NEWS:  Can't (or cain't) cook barbecue in a crockpot or oven!

this isnt a traditionalist trying to be traditional either (welll yeah it kinda is, but not totally!).  without going through the whole mcgee/alton brown scientific elplanation, what i can tell you is that using either process you are basically going to have to braise your pork, which is NOT the process of barbecue!  just like there is cooking method of braising or roasting so there is a method of barbecue.  barbecue is not what you eat.....its the process of HOW it was cooked. 

GOOD NEWS:  Get a webber grill (kettle shape.....or any other grill really....NO GAS!!!!) and you can cook authentic barbecue!  if you read this and respond and want to know how to do it i will be MORE than happy to give you step by step instructions on the process.  so PLEASE TELL ME YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU!

anyway....you cant replace the process of really slow heat (wood heat of course) with proper air flow chemically breaking down the collagens/muscle tissues and the process of braising with liquid or the process of roasting in an oven.  yes they both taste great and yes i love using a crock pot for a bunch of things, but you ask for AUTHENTIC BARBECUE, so i tell you.  there are many, many, many foods/ingredients in southern food culture that speak of who we are.  there is NO food in southern culture that so defines who we are as southerners as barbecue.  whether its the process, the sauce, the lack of sauce, the choice of meat, whatever.  it is who we are.....period.  no matter if we know it yet or not.

←

[GRITS]

I just wanted to thank everyone for your responses. I love it here at egullet - as food is my career and my life. Glad I found all ya'll nice people!!

[ludja]

I agree that bbq means bbqing... but here's a recipe that helped feed my and other friends longings for Carolina BBQ when away from North Carolina and without a set up to easily do a long indirect cooking.

North Carolina Roast Pork

1 whole boneless pork roast, bottom or butt (4-6 lbs)

Dry Rub: (this makes more than you need; can scale down)

¼ cup sugar

¼ cup salt

¼ cup paprika

¼ cup ground black pepper

Vinegar-Pepper Sauce: (this can also be scaled down)

3 quarts white vinegar

1 cup crushed red pepper

1 cup sugar

4 Tbs salt

Place all ingredients in a gallon jug and shake to mix well. Store and left-over sauce in the fridge, where it will keep indefinitely.

Makes about 3 quarts sauce.

Mix together the dry rub ingredients and coat the roast generously with the mixture on all sides. Barbecue at 225-230 deg F until done, approximately 4-6 hours. Baste every 30 minutes w/Vinegar-Pepper Sauce. Or--with different but still good results, roast and baste it in an oven at this temperature.

Meat Thermometer should read 170 deg or more. Let stand 15 minutes before chopping.

To serve, chip or shred the meat and mound it on a plate. Douse with additional sauce. For sandwiches, pile meat on plain white roll, douse generously with sauce and top w/coleslaw.

[woodburner]

Meat Thermometer should read 170 deg or more.  Let stand 15 minutes before chopping.

To serve, chip or shred the meat and mound it on a plate.  Douse with additional sauce.  For sandwiches, pile meat on plain white roll, douse generously with sauce and top w/coleslaw.

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Man that sounds real good.

The only thing I might dispute is the 170ºf.

I like to go 190ºf for an easier pullable stage.

What time is dinner.

woodburner

[GRITS]

mmmm thanks for the info! 190*f pullable stage! <3 u!

Man that sounds real good.

The only thing I might dispute is the 170ºf.

I like to go 190ºf for an easier pullable stage.

What time is dinner.

woodburner

←

[GRITS]

Thank you, Varmint!!!!! for taking the time to respond to me. I still have a broken arm so it's hard 4 me 2 type. I fondly remember pigs roasting in the slow-cooker outside. Lord, I remember them pig pickins!!! Maybe I just need to move BACK to NC!!!!!!! DON'T TEMPT ME!!!

BigHoss is spot on.  Having made a ton of Eastern-style barbecue (and frankly, we don't call it pulled pork), you do need to slow cook it with hardwood.  It can be done, but to be truly authentic, it should be whole hog, rather than just a butt or a ham.  That's why it's so hard to find good, authentic Eastern-style barbecue -- few places go to such efforts to cook entire pigs over a wood-fired pit (and by the way, Eastern-style barbecue is usually cooked directly over the radiant heat -- the wood -- rather than an indirect smoking process).

The other distinctive part of Eastern-style barbecue is the sauce. It's really just a simple mixture of vinegar, hot pepper flakes, and some other elements that vary from place to place.  This sauce should be used sparingly, so that the flavor of the smokey meat shines through -- the vinegar taste should almost be an afterthought if done correctly.

We're here for you, but you're looking at quite an endeavor!

←

[BigHoss]

woodburner is right......you want your internal temp. to be at LEAST 190* before taking it off. i take mine to 200* but no higher than that. you'll figure about 2hrs per pound of uncooked meat. yes that means an 8lb pork butt will take 16hrs to cook while cooking at an external temp of 210*-225*. at about 165* internal you'll hit what we call the "plateau". when you put your meat on it will spike up and slowly climb until the 165*-170* range. at this temp it will level off and will NOT move for hours! you'll come back out 4, 5, maybe even 6-7 hours after it hit 165* and it will still be 165*! youll get freaked out wondering what in the sam hill is going on. dont worry, it will succumb and break that level. after it breaks that plateau it will not be long (2-4 hrs) before it will be done.....the internal range of 190*-200*. during this time sit back with a cold beer and smell what we refer to here in tennessee as "our lord and saviors breath" - that whispy blue smoke coming out with that smell that can be nothing other than that of the Divine. now if you cook a whole hog its a little less scientific. get a big hog, what we call "sausage" hogs here in tennessee/mississippi. about 180lb hog. cook it until its starts "pushin" - meaning the fat will be rendering out the back. this takes about 24-26 hours. if the thigh bone can be turned and pulled out without any resistance, its done. ill be cooking two shoulders and 10 slabs of spare ribs this weekend. putting shoulders on friday afternoon about 4:00 and cooking them for 22 hours. ill put the ribs on about 11:00 on saturday morning to cook for 7-8. the NFL draft is this saturday and the Titans pick 3rd. we'll be celebrating with beer from a local microbrewery called Bosco's......dang good beer. good luck grits.

[KOK]

instructions .. step-by-step

more recipes for pulled pork ...

epicurious does a version of succulent pulled pork as well

←

Melissa,

Can you (or anyone) recommend a Kosher piece of meat the might be (somewhat) similar to a Boston butt or pork shoulder?

I know it's comparing apples and oranges (or pigs and cows) but I'm hoping to make a reasonable substitute.

Thanks very much,

Kevin

[rooftop1000]

Those of the non-kosher variety often cook a brisket right next to the butt...I forget which actually takes longer though.

tracey

[ludja]

woodburner is right......you want your internal temp. to be at LEAST 190* before taking it off.  i take mine to 200* but no higher than that. 

...

←

Thanks for your input, BigHoss. It's been a few years since I made this (too long) but I had thought I followed the recipe as it was written. Maybe I did, but the pork would have been even more tender if I had taken it to a higher temperature.

In any case, I defer to others with more experience.

I personally have been happy with the simple rub and the vinegar-red pepper sauce recipe I gave above. The flavors tasted very close to what I remembered re: Eastern NC bbq. I'll defer here also though, to anyone still living, eating and practicing bbq there! I lived there for ~ 5 years but it has been awhile since that time.

[BigHoss]

grits......you ask for a different cut of meat other than the butt because of fat content. before i tell you my alternative ive got to tell you that when you barbecue fat is your friend. it is your baste. as you may or may not know the fat (exterior fat and some of the interior) on a cut of meat, whether it be pork or beef, will render off. what makes that jello-y tender meat in barbeuce is not the fat but the collagens that have broken down. if you want barbecue like you had back home then you have to use a tough, fatty part of the animal. after all thats how the process of barbecue started with. now on to an alternative, which means any leaner cut of meat (loin/chop/etc..) and a lot of basting with cider vinegar, apple cider, beer, whatever. really, its really not an alternative. those cuts are really for grilling but if you did attempt it you would have to baste the hell out of it. personally i wouldnt do it but thats just me. since you live in an apt. complex authentic bbq is not possible. but you could cheat a little by using electricity. the complex would probably allow that. buy an electric weber smoker or put your alton brown lid on and crate a huge fire hazzard for you and your neighbors. make a small make shift pit on your porch with about 15-20 bricks. put a hot plate under your grit and fashion some type of tin foil cone, or something to block the drippings from falling on the hot plate. put a peice of sheet metal on top with a small hole in it for air flow, i'd guess about the diameter of a coke can. place your meat about 24"-30" above the hot plate. it will take some adjustments but you see the rough picture im painting for you. at the end of the day......you'd probably be better off with the elec. weber. i hope you pull it off.....

[racheld]

grits......you ask for a different cut of meat other than the butt because of fat content.  before i tell you my alternative ive got to tell you that when you barbecue fat is your friend.  it is your baste.  as you may or may not know the fat (exterior fat and some of the interior) on a cut of meat, whether it be pork or beef, will render off.  what makes that jello-y tender meat in barbeuce is not the fat but the collagens that have broken down.  if you want barbecue like you had back home then you have to use a tough, fatty part of the animal.  after all thats how the process of barbecue started with.  now on to an alternative, which means any leaner cut of meat (loin/chop/etc..) and a lot of basting with cider vinegar, apple cider, beer, whatever.  really, its really not an alternative.  those cuts are really for grilling but if you did attempt it you would have to baste the hell out of it.  personally i wouldnt do it but thats just me.  since you live in an apt. complex authentic bbq is not possible. but you could cheat a little by using electricity.  the complex would probably allow that.  buy an electric weber smoker or put your alton brown lid on and crate a huge fire hazzard for you and your neighbors.  make a small make shift pit on your porch with about 15-20 bricks.  put a hot plate under your grit and fashion some type of tin foil cone, or something to block the drippings from falling on the hot plate.  put a peice of sheet metal on top with a small hole in it for air flow, i'd guess about the diameter of a coke can.  place your meat about 24"-30" above the hot plate.  it will take some adjustments but you see the rough picture im painting for you.  at the end of the day......you'd probably be better off with the elec. weber.  i hope you pull it off.....

←

Oh, Big H!! If Alton B. had been blessed to have been born in the South, this is the show he'd be hosting!!! He couldn't have said it better. Or plainer. Or more interestingly.

[DTBarton]

Low & slow is the way to go (even here in New Jersey  )...

Try this site for loads of tips:

Virtual Weber Bullet

Here's to some good Q for you in Miami soon...!

←

I'll second the recommendation for the Weber Smokey Mountain cooker. I got one last year and it rocks. I had in the past sucessfully cooked pork shoulder on a more conventional charcoal grill, but it required constant fiddling to regulate the temperature and my efforts to incorporate a water pan were only marginally successful. It takes a little while to get the Smokey Mountain cooker stabilized, but once you do it holds temperature like a champ for hours. I'm comfortable now leaving it for several hours at a time without checking temp.

Commit the $200 to the Smokey Mountain. The other great thing is the learning curve is esentially zero since the web site waves2ya linked gives detailed step by step instructions with pictures. My stuff came out great the first time.

[GRITS]

When I read your post Big Hoss, I had the same thoughts as Rachel said above me. You really are on par with Alton Brown and you know your stuff. I can see this whole process you spelled out in my head, thanks to Alton doing this on his show, "Good Eats".

Wanna take a trip to Miami and cook me some good cue? You sound like you know what your talking about, and with a sign name such as BigHoss, I am pretty sure that you do~!

Thanks for all your insightfulness! I am licking my chops already!

grits......you ask for a different cut of meat other than the butt because of fat content.  before i tell you my alternative ive got to tell you that when you barbecue fat is your friend.  it is your baste.  as you may or may not know the fat (exterior fat and some of the interior) on a cut of meat, whether it be pork or beef, will render off.  what makes that jello-y tender meat in barbeuce is not the fat but the collagens that have broken down.  if you want barbecue like you had back home then you have to use a tough, fatty part of the animal.  after all thats how the process of barbecue started with.  now on to an alternative, which means any leaner cut of meat (loin/chop/etc..) and a lot of basting with cider vinegar, apple cider, beer, whatever.  really, its really not an alternative.  those cuts are really for grilling but if you did attempt it you would have to baste the hell out of it.  personally i wouldnt do it but thats just me.  since you live in an apt. complex authentic bbq is not possible. but you could cheat a little by using electricity.  the complex would probably allow that.  buy an electric weber smoker or put your alton brown lid on and crate a huge fire hazzard for you and your neighbors.  make a small make shift pit on your porch with about 15-20 bricks.  put a hot plate under your grit and fashion some type of tin foil cone, or something to block the drippings from falling on the hot plate.  put a peice of sheet metal on top with a small hole in it for air flow, i'd guess about the diameter of a coke can.  place your meat about 24"-30" above the hot plate.  it will take some adjustments but you see the rough picture im painting for you.  at the end of the day......you'd probably be better off with the elec. weber.  i hope you pull it off.....

←

[KOK]

Those of the non-kosher variety often cook a brisket right next to the butt...I forget which actually takes longer though.

tracey

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I thought about brisket, but they're kind of expensive and I pretty much only get them for the holidays. I was hoping there might be a (kind of) inexpensive kosher cut similar to a butt that might work.

I usually just by chicken, hamburger and the occasional steak.

Thanks,

Kevin